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Old May 18, 2018, 11:50 PM   #26
Ibmikey
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A friend’s wife shot my EZ the other day, she fired one round and the second the grip safety would not allow her to fire. A simple explanation of proper grip and she fired several more mags without incident.
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Old May 19, 2018, 01:26 AM   #27
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I would never buy a gun with a grip safety, just one more thing to go wrong. Why in the world S&W did this on the EZ line I'll never understand.
As SigArms228 said, "because the pistol has no internal firing ping block safety/drop safety". Still, was this really the best solution? I'm with DanPop here. I don't like grip safeties, magazine disconnects, or manual safety switches on a carry gun. (If you check out the review by sootch00 on YouTube, you'll see a few critical fails with the safety switch on this pistol too.) I'm still waiting for S&W to stop putting lock holes in the sides of their otherwise beautiful revolvers.
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Old May 25, 2018, 02:27 AM   #28
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I too have a bunch of S&W pistols, both Semi Auto and Revolver, none of which have a key lock hole in them ( however, a mod 64 does have the firing pin in frame). For my needs the key is both unneeded and unwanted, I can see where there are those owners that wish to completely deactivate the pistol when not in us. I would rather Smith would simply include a cheap Chinese lock like so many other manufacturers do and let me make the decision to secure or not without their having permanently defaced the firearm.
The grip safety on those pistols Smith has provided it does not bother me in the least as it is a passive feature that helps keep the weapon safe until it is needed and the safety is bipassed with normal firing procedure. I do not want one added to all of my pistols but for those S&W pistols where the grip safety is an engineered feature I have had no experience shooting where the safety has caused a FTF or other situation.
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Old May 25, 2018, 02:10 PM   #29
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I still remain unable to comprehend how a CORRECT grip on the pistol can fail to de-activate the grip safety if it's functioning properly.

If you have enough hand strength to hold onto the pistol while firing it, you have enough hand strength to de-activate the safety.
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Old May 25, 2018, 11:44 PM   #30
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I still remain unable to comprehend how a CORRECT grip on the pistol can fail to de-activate the grip safety if it's functioning properly.

If you have enough hand strength to hold onto the pistol while firing it, you have enough hand strength to de-activate the safety.
Denis
I don't know what the grip safety is like on this model but I have heard of problems with the XD. It needs to be "functioning properly" but it also has to be engineered well and built correctly. Among other factors, it needs to include a decent margin for getting a CORRECT grip. That factor will also be subject to whatever holster a person has and how well they will be able to draw under pressure in a particular emergency under unpredictable conditions. Because it can fail and provides more avenues to fail, it's natural to question its inclusion in the design.
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Old May 26, 2018, 01:37 AM   #31
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Having one here in the office & having run four different loads through it, I repeat my earlier statement.
Hold it right, it de-activates the safety.
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Old May 26, 2018, 04:00 AM   #32
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What is the big deal? I bought the pistol, the safety works as intended, I am satisfied. If a person does not like a feature of a firearm look elsewhere to satisfy your needs, most negative remarks on a product are from those who entertain no thoughts of purchase anyway and those comments should be weighed accordingly.
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Old May 27, 2018, 12:41 AM   #33
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So should we totally ignore the chances of not getting the right grip under certain emergency circumstances such as being pinned or forced into a corner or rolling around in a tussle? Can you imagine any kind of injury where you'd be left with only the possibility of a compromised grip?
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Old May 27, 2018, 01:12 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Cosmodragon
So should we totally ignore the chances of not getting the right grip under certain emergency circumstances such as being pinned or forced into a corner or rolling around in a tussle? Can you imagine any kind of injury where you'd be left with only the possibility of a compromised grip?
Sure, people could reject any gun that might not function due to a compromised grip ... but I doubt many 1911s will be abandoned any time soon. And the same concept applies to guns with manual safeties.
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Old May 27, 2018, 01:43 AM   #35
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If you just can't live with the grip safety, don't buy one.
I never had a problem with any grip safety on any pistol I ever shot with one, including the old Colt 1903 pattern, a Smith .38 revolver, various 1911s, and the imported Springfields.

If you insist on thinking up ways to persuade yourself it'll kill you, pass it up.
In the meantime, no need to continually knock the model or the maker over it.
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Old May 27, 2018, 03:14 AM   #36
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Sure, people could reject any gun that might not function due to a compromised grip ... but I doubt many 1911s will be abandoned any time soon. And the same concept applies to guns with manual safeties.
gc70, I reject it because it is an additional and arguably unnecessary avenue for failure. (You are correct and I don't recommend manual safeties for carry either.) I don't carry a 1911 but for those that do, there seems to be a much more forgiving margin for successful execution. John Correia discusses this issue nicely in his humorous video critique of the XD.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PShoOEUjlGg

For those who like or can accept a grip safety, is the EZ's grip safety more like the 1911 or more like the XD?

Quote:
If you just can't live with the grip safety, don't buy one.
I never had a problem with any grip safety...

If you insist on thinking up ways to persuade yourself it'll kill you, pass it up.
In the meantime, no need to continually knock the model or the maker over it...
DPris, self defense is a serious topic. Having more facts or valid points of view can be helpful when weighing options and this is an internet forum. If you want to specifically or effectively deal with any of the points I made, that might be constructive. If all you've got is that you've never had a problem personally, I could introduce you to guys who still shoot without eye protection because they've never had a problem. Emergencies in which you need a firearm to defend your life are rare but unpredictable events. Having a manual safety fail in such an emergency may also be rare, but it does happen. That's all I have to say on the topic.
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Old May 27, 2018, 07:16 AM   #37
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It's been an interesting thread to read.

I entertain no plans of owning this particular gun, but my mother is interested because of the low recoil and the easily racked slide. She has trouble with otherwise ordinary guns because of hand strength.

I guess I'm indifferent to grip safeties. I had an XD for a long time, ran thousands of rounds through various classes, and fall into the "never had a single problem" camp. In those thousands of rounds, I had two training rounds fail to fire. So rare that I remember the brands, one was from a box of Remington 9mm and the other (amazingly) was the more expensive Sig ammo.

But that means the ammo was statistically more likely to fail than my grip safety. Primers introduce just one more thing that could fail. Clubs and swords work every time!

Joking aside, I look at things as much as I can from a cost-benefit POV. Grip safeties (alone...combining it with a thumb safety kinda puzzles me) do offer one benefit beyond drop resistance, which is to render the gun inoperable while inserting into a holster, if you keep your thumb on the back of the slide as you would with a hammer-fired gun. Discharges while holstering (being distracted, clothing gets in the way, whatever) are certainly known to happen. It's one of the reasons I carry and train with a hammer-fired gun. At some point any human can be distracted, and having that margin of idiot-proofing is very reasonable to me.

What's more likely? To have the gun fail to shoot because you haven't gripped the gun properly? Or to have an ND while holstering? I have no idea. But I reholster my gun far more often than I draw it in self defense (which is zero, and I hope to remain at zero forever).

Anyways, just the ramblings of one guy here, but I see the advantage of a grip safety outweighing any potential risks.

But as I carry a hammer-fired gun anyways, I get the idiot-proofing without the risk of failing to fire due to a grip safety, so it's a moot issue for me

(I also happen to consider the "Glock Gadget" to be a brilliant idea -- look that one up if you haven't seen it before).

Anyways, my final thoughts on the actual questions originally asked?

I'd say learn to use the gun the way it was designed to be used, rather than trying to disable a safety that it was designed to use. I'm not a fan of carrying with an empty chamber, but would say that's a decision you should make for your own personal reasons, and not as an accommodation to a gun feature you dislike. If you like .380 in a Shield-sized gun, there are some pretty nice options from Bersa, Walther and others that give you a well-sized, lower recoil gun without the grip safety.
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Old May 27, 2018, 07:37 AM   #38
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I'm in the camp that if you do not like grip safeties then why are you even looking or commenting on this? As I stated before, those that are looking at this gun and those that will buy this gun do not care that you do not like grip safeties.

We, my wife and I, own one of these guns along with 2 different XD Mod2's. The grip safety was the selling point for my wife! So does that make her right or you right?
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Old May 27, 2018, 10:13 AM   #39
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I had a XD9sc. Great gun, but my wife had difficulty with the grip safety....even with a good grip on the gun. I sold it off because I won't own a gun that my wife can't shoot.

The grip on the EZ looks like it would be impossible NOT to deactivate in a firing grip. I like it.

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Old May 27, 2018, 03:17 PM   #40
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The negative commentary on this model, very much like the idiotic furor over the Glock 19X, has reached the point of absurdity.

Those who don't have the pistol & have no intention of owning one continually knock the idea for those who do.

The forums appear to be taking a dark turn in recent months, with increasing criticism (far beyond mere discussion) of different patterns that some people don't understand, or see a "need" for.

When I see a gun that I have zero use for & personally think quite silly (Taurus .454/.410 revolver & Chiappa Rhino, for instance), I don't feel compelled to make incessant Internet postings questioning the reason for the gun, knocking the maker, insulting the intelligence of anybody who'd buy one, and insisting there is no "need" for such a thing.


Analyzing the specific nature & type of this Smith grip safety in comps to other grip safeties is silly.
I merely pointed out that grip safeties have been in VERY widespread use for well over a century on pistols & revolvers, they are not a killer (either of deals or persons), and if you hold the gun correctly & the mechanics are functioning properly, the gun will fire.

Searching for opportunities for the device to fail is more than silly.
If you think a grip safety may present a failure op in a scuffle, I'd refer you again to the military's use of the 1911 for well over 80 years, and in battle a gun's design deficiencies (if any) will quickly make itself known.

The 1911's grip safety has also been used as a carry gun, across dozens of brands & model variations, by some very knowledgeable people, in LE & the everyday citizen market, and continues to do so, very successfully.

The grip safety is not inherently a problem guaranteed to "kill" you in defensive use.
I would again refer you to the nearly 50-year success of the Colt 1903/8 Pocket Hammerless, set up almost exactly the same way.

If you sit yourself down with great determination to talk yourself out of buying a new model, you can do it with ANY gun ever made or ANY gun that ever will be made.

With sufficient effort, you can ALWAYS manage to find a reason not to personally own ANY given gun in the world.

I will repeat- there IS a market for the thought behind the EZ.
It IS a valid market.
It IS a valid pistol.
It DOES meet both a demand and a need.
It DOES function if you simply hold it correctly.
It does NOT have to appeal to you to make it a worthwhile possession, even as a recreational piece.
It DOES function as a defensive piece.


And finishing up- if you just can't personally bring yourself to hold the thing correctly, or to believe in the idea, DON'T BUY THE GUN.

You really don't have to post incessantly about what a huge hazard to navigation it is & that there's no "need" or reason for it to exist.

In any SD equipment evaluation any of us does, we should be viewing our needs, our abilities, or budget, and even our "likes", to mate them with any selection candidate.

Once those are well in mind, we next apply them to a specific product to see how well that product meshes.
A very important part of the process at that point is to also look at the quality of the candidate, in terms of performance and reliability.

If the features of the gun are amenable to OUR criteria, and it functions reliably in OUR hands, we may decide to make the buy.


If none of that comes together for you, then you simply don't make the buy.
Exactly the same deal as with the Glock 19X.
"What were they thinking?"

"They" were thinking "Hey, we make guns. Let's make another model with something that might sell to a market segment. It's what we do."


This EZ IS selling, and if you don't understand why by now, there's no point in any further efforts to explain or discuss.

I'm not in a physical category myself that would benefit from the set-up, but I'm neither embarrassed nor ego-challenged enough to avoid realizing that someday I will be, and when that day comes the EZ could very easily be my "End Gun", before going into the nursing home.

And it causes me no angst whatever in seeing posters here say they simply "like" shooting one.
Seriously- if you can't understand the appeal, don't understand the principle behind the gun, and can't accept the idea that it could possibly ever function in your hand, just move on.
Denis
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Old May 27, 2018, 03:46 PM   #41
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Dpriz, I have been using my EZ 380 this week to put down hogs trapped in Texas, none survived, the pistol never faltered at it’s mission and it is still viable for concealed carry on the way home.
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Old May 27, 2018, 04:54 PM   #42
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I tried the Shield 380EZ earlier this year when Smith and Wesson was at my LGS factory shoot. It is not for me, at least yet, but it might be something that might interest my wife because it is so easy to operate and has very little recoil. She is not a weakling but she is not someone what would want to go to the range shooting every month either. The hand safety was a total non issue to me while shooting it. I also tested the hand safety and it only needed to be barely partially depressed to allow the hammer to fall after pulling the trigger.

Kudos the Smith and Wesson for addressing a significant market niche that will really appreciate this pistol.
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Old May 29, 2018, 10:24 AM   #43
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Bravo to DPris for that post!
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Old May 30, 2018, 12:31 AM   #44
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I don't doubt the appeal but then again, having an ILS on a revolver or carrying with an unloaded chamber appeals to a lot of people too. If someone wants to raise fact-based concerns or make logical arguments about any of those issues, is that really without value? Surely, it has to be at least as valuable as hollowly writing that stuff off as "silly" and "incessant" or trying to paint the person that raised them as some kind of tactical hypochondriac.

I might not get a "bravo" but the fact is that this stuff gets read. Lots of people read these threads, they exist for a long time, and they are indexed by search engines. The people reading these threads come from all sorts of backgrounds and have different levels of training and experience. So I'll repeat myself. Emergencies in which you need a firearm to defend your life are rare and unpredictable events. Something like having a manual safety fail in such an emergency may also be rare, but it does happen. The value of eliminating small or even rare hassles that could become a factor will be up to the individual, so long as they know about them in the first place.

I'll also renew my recommendation that people check out the "Active Self Protection" channel on YouTube and take some time to listen to "evidence based" trainers like John.
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Old June 1, 2018, 07:46 PM   #45
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Good reply, Cosmo. You get at least a mini-bravo.
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