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Old June 26, 2019, 01:15 PM   #26
Leaf
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The tough part is knowing when to point shoot and when to use your sights. And of course this is only something one can learn from good training and lots of practice.

Practice with a good laser too, they can be sorta in between.

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Old June 26, 2019, 04:00 PM   #27
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Give an example of a situation where you will have time to assume a proper stance, secure a proper grip, and obtain a proper sight picture. Especially considering your attacker will most likely be a few feet, not yards away. He will be hitting, bludgeoning, stabbing, slashing, or shooting. With proper "trainng" and form not existing anywhere in his uniserse.
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Old June 26, 2019, 04:15 PM   #28
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I am edumacated in various shooting disciplines. You need to know what works when and how to apply it. You do not have time to miss. Use whatever tactic or skill set that allows you to be victorious and go home whether it is FSP or point shooting.

Combat fairy? We call him Murphy.

My preferred method would be to put 2-3 hits on target and take cover letting nature take its course.
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Old June 26, 2019, 04:24 PM   #29
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Give an example of a situation where you will have time to assume a proper stance, secure a proper grip, and obtain a proper sight picture.
Most of the time if you do not miss all the danger cues and recognize them for what they are.

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Especially considering your attacker will most likely be a few feet, not yards away. He will be hitting, bludgeoning, stabbing, slashing, or shooting.
That is why many of us believe self defense is not just about sticking a mouse gun in your pocket. It is a wholistic approach of unarmed and armed combative's, physical fitness, mind set and commitment.


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With proper "trainng" and form not existing anywhere in his uniserse.
Says who? Master your gun, carry enough gun, carry spare ammo, carry a CAT, know first aid. Get quality training. Work on the variables that you can work on. Proper attitude goes a long way to surviving lethal force encounters.
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Old June 26, 2019, 05:23 PM   #30
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Most of the time if you do not miss all the danger cues and recognize them for what they are.
If you recognize the dangers there shouldn't even be a confrontation or need for force of any kind. But in most cases there isn't enough time to recognize anything but you are being attacked.
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Says who? Master
So you're saying the gangbanging carjacker dragging you out of your car went through the same civilian training classes you did? That's who says proper training in nowhere in his universe! If you are so concerned with proper everything from a training class you're gonna lose.
Reminds me of the guy many years a go that hung around the pool hall in my home town. Back in the karate days w ith the belts, and training and all that stuff. Bragged about all his training, and belts until one day he git into a fight with a good old boy street fighter. The Bruce Lee wannabe sliped on something with his first kick. At which time the street fighter knocked him to the floor, pounced on him, and beat the tar out of him because he was completely out of his "trainng" element. Never saw him in the pool hall again.
Not saying training isn't important. But when things go bad, everything is out the window. Those thugs aren't paper targets waiting for you to implement your training. They are runing, jumping weaving, stabbing hitting shooting attackers.
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Old June 26, 2019, 05:58 PM   #31
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Combat fairy? We call him Murphy.
Murphy is always there and will work to destroy any plan you make.

The combat fairy is totally different. Her invocation usually starts with the phrase, "In combat, I would do it like......."

Meanwhile they do something totally different in training.

Sort of like all those officers who hit consistently on that nice flat range at long distances only to miss at two to ten feet because their lizard brain took over as the Combat Fairy never appeared.

When that lizard brain starts running the show, you want either a huge close iin target to put that muzzle right up against or you want some big bright easy to find front sight post to put right over that thing invoking the lizard brain.
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Old June 26, 2019, 06:00 PM   #32
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That is why many of us believe self defense is not just about sticking a mouse gun in your pocket. It is a wholistic approach of unarmed and armed combative's, physical fitness, mind set and commitment.
Yes.
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Old June 26, 2019, 06:03 PM   #33
Bartholomew Roberts
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Well, he’s no Gabe Suarez...

Kyle Lamb on shooting without sights - video

Also not Gabe Suarez

Paul Howe on point shooting

Last edited by Bartholomew Roberts; June 26, 2019 at 06:57 PM.
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Old June 26, 2019, 06:44 PM   #34
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So you're saying the gangbanging carjacker dragging you out of your car went through the same civilian training classes you did?
I never said what training I have had. I will say that I was a scraper before I ever had any formal training. But 40 years of wearing a badge and running to the sound of conflict has taught me a thing or two about personal combat.

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That's who says proper training in nowhere in his universe! If you are so concerned with proper everything from a training class you're gonna lose.
How many fights have you been in that if you lost you would most likely die? My guess none, based upon your replies.

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Reminds me of the guy many years a go that hung around the pool hall in my home town. Back in the karate days w ith the belts, and training and all that stuff. Bragged about all his training, and belts until one day he git into a fight with a good old boy street fighter. The Bruce Lee wannabe sliped on something with his first kick. At which time the street fighter knocked him to the floor, pounced on him, and beat the tar out of him because he was completely out of his "trainng" element. Never saw him in the pool hall again.
So, you think that my talking about my experience sounds like BS and bravado? Fine with me.

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Not saying training isn't important. But when things go bad, everything is out the window.
You need training to LEARN you need experience to put the training into context. Why do you think the US military dominates on the battlefield? It ain't luck.

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Those thugs aren't paper targets waiting for you to implement your training. They are runing, jumping weaving, stabbing hitting shooting attackers.
Come up with that all by yourself?
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Old June 26, 2019, 06:47 PM   #35
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The combat fairy is totally different. Her invocation usually starts with the phrase, "In combat, I would do it like......."

Meanwhile they do something totally different in training.
Must be a new thing. I get it, but have been out of the Army for 39 years.

Quote:
Sort of like all those officers who hit consistently on that nice flat range at long distances only to miss at two to ten feet because their lizard brain took over as the Combat Fairy never appeared.
I know plenty that can't hit on the square range.

Quote:
When that lizard brain starts running the show, you want either a huge close iin target to put that muzzle right up against or you want some big bright easy to find front sight post to put right over that thing invoking the lizard brain.
That is why I like a nice bright front sight and nice black back sights on my pistols.
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Old June 26, 2019, 08:08 PM   #36
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Must be a new thing. I get it, but have been out of the Army for 39 years.
I was graduating high school, LOL. Murphy loves those who pray to the Combat Fairy.

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Bartholomew Roberts
Good stuff.

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PLAXCO'S SHOOTING PRINCIPLES
1. ACCURACY TAKES PRECEDENCE OVER SPEED.
2. SPEED IS ECONOMY OF MOTION.
3. SPEED WILL COME WITH PRACTICE (IF YOU PRACTICE TO BE
FAST).
4. LET THE SIGHTS DICTATE THE CADENCE OF FIRE.
5. YOU MUST LEARN WHAT IS AN ACCEPTABLE SIGHT PICTURE
AND TRIGGER CONTROL FOR THE SHOT REQUIRED.
6. SHOOT ONE SHOT AT A TIME.
7. WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS, ALIGN THE SIGHTS... SQUEEZE THE
TRIGGER.
Slow is smooth; Smooth is Fast...
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Old June 26, 2019, 08:17 PM   #37
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The tough part is knowing when to point shoot and when to use your sights. And of course this is only something one can learn from good training and lots of practice.

Practice with a good laser too, they can be sorta in between.
The oracle has spoken.
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Old June 26, 2019, 08:46 PM   #38
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I think this discussion has about run its course. I see a lot of people in here who seem to be more interested in how close they can come to the edge of violating Rule #3 than offering any new information pertaining to the actual topic of discussion.
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