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Old June 25, 2012, 02:51 PM   #26
zxcvbob
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What about the spring that holds the case in place around the shellplate on the LNL?
Get a spare; they are pretty cheap. But you don't need a bunch of spares, usually when the spring "breaks" all it did was come apart at the ends. You can screw it back together and reuse it.

I like the spring because it's easy to take a cartridge off at any station to look at it and put it back. (Not sure how Dillon works, maybe it's just as easy)
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Old June 25, 2012, 03:10 PM   #27
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The Hornady measure didn't do any better with extruded powder than the Dillon measure did (both dont like them); however, the Dillon measure does small charges better than the Hornady, unless you buy extra parts. The Dillon measure also comes with a powder baffel but thats not a deal breaker, you can make one from an aluminum can.

The Dillons use locator pins with the exception of station #2 on a 650 (spring loaded arm) and #4 on the 1050 (button head socket head cap screw).

I never had a problem with the spring on the LNL but did have the quick change bushings come loose a few times, another o-ring fixed them. The SD and 1050 tool heads are bolted on and 550/650 use two pins, maybe not as fast to remove 1 die, not that I ever remove just one, but they never have removed themselves.
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Old June 25, 2012, 03:24 PM   #28
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Nice choice in your college (go state!). I will put another vote in for the lee classic turret. 150 rounds per hour is easy to achieve and I can't stress enough how easy changing calibers is. It is also very affordable
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Old June 25, 2012, 03:58 PM   #29
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Get a spare; they are pretty cheap. But you don't need a bunch of spares, usually when the spring "breaks" all it did was come apart at the ends. You can screw it back together and reuse it.
Same experience. Mine came apart and I screwed it back together. Never had a problem since. And I do like the fact I can take the brass out at any station.

Powder examples: I've used Reloder's powders in it and it was accurate to within .2grain every time. It's been within .1grain with HP38(Win231), HS6, and TiteGroup every time. I don't see where any powder measure can get any better than that. In an auto-indexing or turret press, I don't expect precision accuracy regarding long range rifle cartridges. If I want accuracy, I use my single stage RCBS and its powder measure. Then, I use a powder trickler from Redding to get the charge precise.
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Old June 25, 2012, 04:18 PM   #30
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I dont know of any progressive that you can't take the brass out of any station, just most of them dont use a spring around the shell plate.

While I dont load benchrest ammo on a progressive, my 3 gun rifle ammo loaded on progressives, will shoot 1 MOA if i sort the brass. Thats better than the cheap factory loaded ammo. The key is to work up loads using ball powders like 748, Ramshot TAC and Xtermanator, etc. Stay away from extruded powders and you'll be fine.
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Old June 25, 2012, 04:46 PM   #31
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I was wondering about accurate ammo with a progressive press. I have a 14.5" mid-length which doesn't necessarily require 1/2 MOA ammo. Though my 18" MK12 does. As of right now i'm shooting SWA 77gr SMK Run N gun. Which is about .50$ a round and is the same load as their match load but on pulled LC brass instead of new. I get 2700fps IIRC my ES and SD wasn't that great. I think the ES was 27 and SD was 14. I understand a semi would contribute to that. Mainly i'm wondering if I can get that same performance using the progressive.

I understand i'm not going to get results like my loads for my bolt rifle (ES 14, SD 4.5) but how accurate can you get?
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Old June 25, 2012, 05:35 PM   #32
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I was wondering about accurate ammo with a progressive press. I have a 14.5" mid-length which doesn't necessarily require 1/2 MOA ammo. Though my 18" MK12 does. As of right now i'm shooting SWA 77gr SMK Run N gun. Which is about .50$ a round and is the same load as their match load but on pulled LC brass instead of new. I get 2700fps IIRC my ES and SD wasn't that great. I think the ES was 27 and SD was 14. I understand a semi would contribute to that. Mainly i'm wondering if I can get that same performance using the progressive.

I understand i'm not going to get results like my loads for my bolt rifle (ES 14, SD 4.5) but how accurate can you get?
I have been loading for my AR for six years on a classic turret and the last year on a Dillon 550. At 120 yards I can put three shots in a dime and five in a quarter with ammo from either press. I'm shooting a stock 16" Rock River 1:9 twist with Hornady 55 grain bulk bullets.
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Old June 25, 2012, 06:44 PM   #33
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Those are good results. What's yours ES and SD?
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Old June 25, 2012, 07:05 PM   #34
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Even though you have some things already, You'll find that the accessories for any press will add up. Die plates for 4 different calibers. Shell holders for 4 calibers. I have a Lee Loadmaster press. One of the Midrange/less expensive progressives. The Lee powder measure requires the lee die to flare the neck and raise the powder measure. There's 100's of little things that are nice to have when reloading.

You also need to have a mechanical mind to adjust and maintain any progressive press. It's a precision machine, that makes precision ammunition.

If I had an unlimited budget, I would have bought the Dillon 1050. But I have to say, I'm very happy with my Lee Loadmaster. It's a good solid press and works well. I probably have about $500-$600 into it. I reload for 3 pistol and 1 rifle calibers.
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Old June 25, 2012, 08:07 PM   #35
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I don't know about the rifle powder measure but I can tell you the powder measure on the 550b is pretty accurate for pistol loads. The type of powder used does make a difference. When I set mine I put 4 drops in the pan to measure. I will adjust until I get the proper amount then do it two more times to confirm the results. An example is I use 5 grains of WST with a MG 185 grain JHP bullet. I will dump 4 loads in the pan to measure and it should read 20 grains. The next two times I do this also give the same results. My scale is supposed to be accurate to 0.1 grains of powder. I figure I'm going to be close to .025 grains with this method more or less. It will be closer then a single drop. I will check the powder drop again after doing a couple hundred rounds and I get the same results every time.

I do use AA 2, AA5, AA7, W231, WST powders. I have used VV powder and it measures well too. I tried 700X and I couldn't get it to be consistent enough to use it unless I measured each and every load on a scale. That is just too much work in my opinion when you are using a progressive press.

Ball type powders seem to work very well in the Dillon powder measures. I won't try using flake powders again.
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Old June 25, 2012, 09:05 PM   #36
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Those are good results. What's yours ES and SD?
I don't have a chrono.
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Old June 25, 2012, 09:20 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Mississippi Dave
I don't know about the rifle powder measure but I can tell you the powder measure on the 550b is pretty accurate for pistol loads. The type of powder used does make a difference. When I set mine I put 4 drops in the pan to measure. I will adjust until I get the proper amount then do it two more times to confirm the results. An example is I use 5 grains of WST with a MG 185 grain JHP bullet. I will dump 4 loads in the pan to measure and it should read 20 grains. The next two times I do this also give the same results. My scale is supposed to be accurate to 0.1 grains of powder. I figure I'm going to be close to .025 grains with this method more or less. It will be closer then a single drop. I will check the powder drop again after doing a couple hundred rounds and I get the same results every time.

I do use AA 2, AA5, AA7, W231, WST powders. I have used VV powder and it measures well too. I tried 700X and I couldn't get it to be consistent enough to use it unless I measured each and every load on a scale. That is just too much work in my opinion when you are using a progressive press.

Ball type powders seem to work very well in the Dillon powder measures. I won't try using flake powders again.
Yeah i load handgun on a single stage i just throw charges with W231 as it's very smooth so to speak. If i were to try and do that with varget or IMR4350 it would be horrible.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CrustyFN
I don't have a chrono.
I see. They're a good investment. I haven't bought one because i use my friends. It's nothing special, just the chrony F1. Now i would love to have a Oehler model 35 but don't have 500$ to spend on one. The F1 is close enough to the point my shots are pretty close on target at distance.
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Old June 26, 2012, 04:44 PM   #38
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when asked

Shooters at the USPSA Nationals have been filling out gear questionnaires since time began.

The overwhelming choice remains a Dillon product.


(And if you could, you could ask ammo makers who keep manual machines around, what they use. Same answer?)
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Old June 26, 2012, 06:24 PM   #39
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I've been reloaing off and on for 50 yrs ....and for what its worth, I have a Dillon 650 - with a case feeder and I'd buy it again. I've owned quite a few presses ( including the rock chucker ) ...and used most of them / my buddies have Hornaday, RCBS presses, etc...

To me the auto indexing is a safety feature / its too easy to get distracted on a press like the 550 and forget to index it manually / so I look at auto indexing as a positive thing.

The powder check die on the 650 ....gives you an additional margin of safety...so I like that option as well - especially when loading large volumes of ammo.

650 with a case feeder ..is easily turning out 800 rds an hour...or more - and yes the loads are very consistent and very accurate on powder drops, bullet seating and the final crimp stages. You'll get every bit as accurate a finished round off of the 650 - that you got on your single stage.

Most presses these days are good machines / its a question of the features you want ...built in safety features like a powder check / but presses like the Hornada LNL are not bad machines / although I don't think its a better machine than the 650 either. You will find that all machines - have their little issues - they handle primers a little differently, powder measures are a little different...but Dillon's customer service is there to help you / they make good equipment. A buddy just bought a 650 and case feeder...he went thru all the same analysis you're doing ...LNL, etc.../ and he's really happy with his machine as well.
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Old June 26, 2012, 07:31 PM   #40
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As i said before i really like the 650. I don't doubt it can be accurate for loads. My concern in loading for rifles is ES and SD. Really the single stage isn't the part generating my good ES/SD for my loads, it's having to go step by step, while ensuring consistency. The longest part of my loading process for rifles is weighing powder charges, more consistent the charge, the better ES/SD I get. I've never thrown charges for rifles, only handguns. To clarify a little how are you ES/SD on your rifle ammo you load with 650? How accurate is the powder dispenser compared to you/me trickling powder on a scale to get that "exact" charge?
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Old June 26, 2012, 08:04 PM   #41
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If you are benchrest shooting forget about progressives. They are not well suited to the constant testing you have to do and the small volume required as well as time it takes to convert over to another caliber.
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Old June 26, 2012, 09:05 PM   #42
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I don't BR shoot but i'm interested in whether or not i can achieve good ES/SD for my 18" AR. My loads for my bolt rifles will always be done on a single stage. I dread the thought however of having to take as much time on a load for my AR as i do my bolt rifles, because i always end up shooting more than intended with my AR.
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Old June 27, 2012, 12:34 AM   #43
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Even if you had an ES and SD of zero that doesnt mean that load will provide the best assuracy. It doesn't hurt but is not the end all be all. A progressive is not unlike a single stage in that it also does everything step by step. It just so happens it can do each step all together with every pull. I can tell you that they dont like extruded powders; however, if you develop your loads you can win matches loading with them.
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Old June 27, 2012, 01:05 AM   #44
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The idea is work up an accurate load and keep the charge consistent enough for a good ES and SD. ES and SD is of some great importance when shooting distance. My 155gr scenar loads were producing 11 shot one ragged hole groups, SD and ES was horrible and it showed at just 300yds, much less trying to go further. I don't compete with any rifles right now but i do shoot distance on my own time.

Throwing or dispensing charges with powders like Varget or IMR 4350 would more than likely have to be done on a scale, i would imagine.

I realize the stages are technically no different ability wise, but the matter of weighing powder consistently with scales is more accurate than a dispenser/thrower, that is what i mean when i say "my bolt rifles will always be done on single stages"
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Old June 27, 2012, 08:40 AM   #45
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The idea is work up an accurate load and keep the charge consistent enough for a good ES and SD. ES and SD is of some great importance when shooting distance.

Throwing or dispensing charges with powders like Varget or IMR 4350 would more than likely have to be done on a scale, i would imagine.

I realize the stages are technically no different ability wise, but the matter of weighing powder consistently with scales is more accurate than a dispenser/thrower, that is what i mean when i say "my bolt rifles will always be done on single stages"
My point was a given bullet/powder charge combination with a zero ES and SD may or may not give you the better groups at any range as another combination with a greater ES/SD. Not only that any given load will not be the same out of every rifle. A load that is all over the place in a 10.5" barrel can be right on with a 24". The differences are less drastic but still present from a 16, 18 and 20 inch.

In short, I let the target decide my load not the chronograph.

Most everyone with a progressive will agree progressives and extruded powders are not a match made in heaven. If your loads already use extruded powders, you can give it a try or go get a bunch of different ball powders and start over.

With the powders I use for 223 the powder measure is consistant to .1 grain at least, as that is the best resolution my scale gives.

Last edited by jmorris; June 27, 2012 at 08:46 AM.
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Old June 27, 2012, 10:28 AM   #46
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I agree accuracy comes before velocity statistics. I never stated that i chose my loads based on ES and SD, but it is of importance to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmorris
With the powders I use for 223 the powder measure is consistant to .1 grain at least, as that is the best resolution my scale gives.
That's great, what powders do you use?
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Last edited by 5RWill; June 27, 2012 at 10:35 AM.
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Old June 27, 2012, 03:31 PM   #47
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My top 3 for .223 are winchester 748, ramshot TAC and ramshot xtermanator. Tac and 748 also work well in other rounds up to and including 308.

A bunch of others to choose from though.
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Old June 27, 2012, 04:28 PM   #48
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I have 2 Lee Loadmasters. One for small primer, and the other for large primer.
Once they are set up properly (READ THE INSTRUCTIONS CAREFULLY), they work great. Use STP on the sliding surfaces of the press. STP only! Especially on the case inserter.

I reload the following on these presses.
500 S&W
44 mag
44 russian
44 special
357/44mag (B&D)
357 Mag
38 special
380
9x21
9x18
7.62x25
7.62 Nagant
30 Carbine

I keep the dies in their own turrets. Change over consists of changing turrets and shell plates. Then installing powder measure with correct charge wheel.
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