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Old July 10, 2019, 09:46 AM   #51
armednfree
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It appeared to me, that no holster work was even contemplated?
Holster work is a good bit more complicated. The first thing is that most students don't show up with a concealment holster. Added to that fact is that there are so many types, too many to go into. Holster work is something that should be taught on the individual level.

There is some discussion. It is rather easy with a man since we tend to dress in the same way day to day. For example, I can carry in my Alien Gear on my hip every day. For a woman, who tends to dress in different styles, it is much more difficult. I make no illusion that I am qualified for that. I tend to think a woman, preferably a stylish one, should teach that. Find one, they are rather rare. I wish there was a store with a holster "boutique" for the ladies, and an attendant who knows what she's doing.

Encouraged is to practice the draw in front of a mirror. Repetitively until it becomes an automatic thing. Learn to do it with one hand as the very likely event is that you will be using your other one for defense. I do this often, loose no edge on that. All skills are perishable without refreshment.
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Old July 10, 2019, 09:53 AM   #52
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FWIW, Florida accepts hunter safety or education courses approved by Fish and Wildlife or a similar agency in another state; any NRA firearm course; any firearms safety course taught by, well, almost anyone with any certification - junior colleges, colleges, LEAs, private schools, as long as the instructor is certified by NRA, Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission, or the state Department of Agriculture. If that last one sounds weird, the licensing is through Agriculture and Consumer Affairs.

https://www.freshfromflorida.com/Con...-Documentation
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Old July 10, 2019, 11:04 AM   #53
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Funny thing is in Ohio a Corrections Officer receives 40 hours training in the academy in an OPOTA approved course then 8 hours training and qualification per year. That officer is not allowed to use that training to get a CCW. Then the fact that they actually have to get one yet someone with a military I.D. is allowed to carry on that.
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Old July 10, 2019, 11:32 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by TailGator
FWIW, Florida accepts hunter safety or education courses approved by Fish and Wildlife or a similar agency in another state; any NRA firearm course; any firearms safety course taught by, well, almost anyone with any certification - junior colleges, colleges, LEAs, private schools, as long as the instructor is certified by NRA, Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission, or the state Department of Agriculture. If that last one sounds weird, the licensing is through Agriculture and Consumer Affairs.
Florida also accepts (or used to) a DD-214. When I obtained my first Florida non-resident carry permit (around 2006, IIRC)) i sent in a copy of my DD-214. It was 38 years old and only showed that I had qualified on the M14. It somehow failed to show that I had also qualified on the M1 Carbine and the M16 ... but no handguns. But the Florida state law requires proof of "firearms safety training," not marksmanship or tactical training.
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Old July 13, 2019, 04:54 AM   #55
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Prior to 911, I took an online Hunter Safety course, sent that into Florida.
It was mailed back to my Toronto address. When I crossed the border at Detroit, headed down the I 75 South. Holstered my Browning Hi-Power (Prior to my love affair with Glock) now carry my Glock 43X.

Once I entered the USA to live, I changed my address to my Sons, we lived with him for a while. Personally, I see no reason for a Concealed Carry License to be anything but a one time issue, and no renewal being necessary ever.

My interview, for my Citizenship, prior to the Ceremony, the Officer (Ex-Marine, if there is such a person, Ex that is) told me, we have never thrown a Canadian out, ever! In fact, I was in the interview office for a long time! My Wife was very concerned, I was talking to this really pleasant Chap for ages!

One comment I will never forget, he came out with me to meet my Wife.

I said give my Wife a hug! He said since talking to me, he was not going anywhere near her! Funny Guy.
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Old July 13, 2019, 06:47 AM   #56
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Ex-Marine, if there is such a person, Ex that is
Unless the Marine was separated under conditions other than a Honorable, General discharge under Honerable conditions, they are a 'Former Marine'..those that got kicked out are 'ex' marines. For info.
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Old July 14, 2019, 12:03 PM   #57
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After carrying daily for roughly 30 years, I moved to SC. The CCW class was a joke. 10-1/2 hours of my life I will never get back.

Going rate for the class is about $75. Find one and wait for a class with an opening. Between find class and take class can run a couple months easy.

Class started with this is a gun, this is a trigger, this is a barrel, etc. If you need to be taught that and there is no gun owner in your life that can mentor you, the NRA has a class specifically designed for such complete novices.

Almost all of the law portion covered the ten or twelve broad categories of places where the state legislature has decreed that the exercise of a Constitutional right is a criminal offense.

The shooting proficiency test was the definition of stupid, Stevie Wonder could pass the shooting test. A silhouette about the size of an NFL offensive tackle. Start with ten shots at about three paces. Repeat at one pace intervals for a total of 100 shots. Impacts in the white count against you, but nobody counts the holes so missing the paper completely does not count against you.

Then the fingerprints and state application, another $50. They have 90 days to process the same background check they do if they notice a taillight out but they routinely take all the time they want which goes over the 90 days. That this breaks the law seems not to trouble them in the least.

Total cost? $125+. For a right. Prior restraint of a right? Five to six months. Total benefit as it relates to proficiency? Zero. Training as it relates to when is deadly force justifiable in the eyes of the law? I'll grant them this. I learned that if you intervene when someone else's life is in imminent peril, that person's right to self defense must be perfect, meaning if they started the initial confrontation or at any point did anything that could be construed as escalating - even something as simple as telling a road rager that a red light means stop - the state will jack you up too. That much at least is good to know in advance.
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Old July 22, 2019, 10:35 PM   #58
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WOW, today I received my CCW in the mail. One month turnaround time. I think that's incredible. How fast did you all get your CCWs?
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Old July 23, 2019, 04:36 AM   #59
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Then the fact that they actually have to get one yet someone with a military I.D. is allowed to carry on that.
Basic training contains more than 40 hrs of firearm training and even the the Regular Army Support Units shoot more ammunition per year than most LEO’s much less a Corrections Officer.
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Old July 23, 2019, 06:59 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by AzShooter View Post
WOW, today I received my CCW in the mail. One month turnaround time. I think that's incredible. How fast did you all get your CCWs?
5 weeks..Colorado..
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Old July 23, 2019, 07:10 AM   #61
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It takes about 10 minutes if you don't count the time it takes to actually fill out the little card. 10 Minutes !
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Old July 23, 2019, 01:50 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by FireForged View Post
It takes about 10 minutes if you don't count the time it takes to actually fill out the little card. 10 Minutes !
Ditto for me (Alabama).

D
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Old July 23, 2019, 09:13 PM   #63
armednfree
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Originally Posted by davidsog View Post
Basic training contains more than 40 hrs of firearm training and even the the Regular Army Support Units shoot more ammunition per year than most LEO’s much less a Corrections Officer.
I take and pass an Ohio Peace Officer Training qualification yearly.
This:
http://www.activeresponsetraining.ne...lification.pdf
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Old July 24, 2019, 07:54 AM   #64
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25 bullets a year and you are complaining about Military ID’s being accepted??

Did I get that right?
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Old July 24, 2019, 08:10 AM   #65
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25 bullets a year and you are complaining about Military ID’s being accepted?
The vast majority of Mil personal get almost zero handgun training.
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Old July 24, 2019, 09:16 AM   #66
davidsog
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The vast majority of Mil personal get almost zero handgun training.
Irrelevant.

They get much more firearms training and firearms safety training than the vast majority of Police Departments.

That is why you can use your DD214 and Military ID as proof of firearms training in most states that even require some proof of competency in firearms.
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Old July 24, 2019, 09:18 AM   #67
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Even Communist places like Maryland understand that:

Quote:
Exceptions to possession of the HQL License
A Licensed Firearms Manufacturer.
Active law enforcement officer or a person retired in good standing from a law enforcement agency of the United States (Federal Law Enforcement), the State, or a local law enforcement agency of the State.
Active or retired member of the United States Armed Forces or National Guard and possesses a valid military identification card.
A person purchasing, renting or receiving an antique, curio or relic as defined in federal law.
Maryland licensed firearms dealers. (Sole Proprietors)
https://mdsp.maryland.gov/Organizati...onLicense.aspx
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Old July 24, 2019, 10:43 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by davidsog
That is why you can use your DD214 and Military ID as proof of firearms training in most states that even require some proof of competency in firearms.
The only state I'm aware of that accepts a DD214 as proof of firearms safety training is Florida. I currently hold non-resident permits from five states, and Florida was the only one that accepted my DD214. I'm sure there are others, but I don't think it's accurate to say "most states that require some proof of competency in firearms."
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Old July 24, 2019, 10:53 AM   #69
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Irrelevant.

They get much more firearms training and firearms safety training than the vast majority of Police Departments.
Absolutely relevant. You are saying a DD214 shows proof of training to apply for a concealed carry permit. But most former mil types have almost zero handgun training. So how does that prepare them to carry and use a handgun?
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Old July 24, 2019, 10:55 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by davidsog View Post
Irrelevant.



They get much more firearms training and firearms safety training than the vast majority of Police Departments.



That is why you can use your DD214 and Military ID as proof of firearms training in most states that even require some proof of competency in firearms.
I don't know that I see it as irrelevant. Most people are concealed carrying pistols, not rifles. I've firsthand seen servicemen have issues with using a pistol because of lack of familiarity. Does that mean they're worse than police? That depends on the department. My experience with training with police has shown me a very wide range in terms of skill, as wide as exists in the civilian world.

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Old July 24, 2019, 04:23 PM   #71
davidsog
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I don't know that I see it as irrelevant.
Who cares??


The law sees your opinion as irrelevant as do most folks who understand the intent. I have seen first hand LEO's who have issues using a pistol due to lack of familiarity as well.

Quote:
Aguila Blanca says:
The fundamental purpose for CCW classes isn't to make you a marksman, or an "operator," or even to teach you the laws in order to help you stay out of jail. If you read the various state laws for states that require some sort of training as a prerequisite to issuance of a license/permit, the overwhelming majority that I have read all talk about firearms safety training. In a nutshell, they want to be sure that people who walk around with guns know which end the bullets come out of, and that there's at least a reasonable chance that the person won't shoot someone by accident.
https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...68&postcount=9
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Old July 24, 2019, 04:29 PM   #72
TunnelRat
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Originally Posted by davidsog View Post
Who cares??


The law sees your opinion as irrelevant as do most folks who understand the intent. I have seen first hand LEO's who have issues using a pistol due to lack of familiarity as well.



https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...68&postcount=9
Seeing as this is a discussion forum, I care, your approval isn't required for my opinion, and I'm not the only one, it would seem, with that opinion. And given that it seems to be the case that in fact no, not all states and thus not all members of law enforcement accept a DD214 carte blanche, it may be that this "opinion" is shown in the laws of certain localities. And even if it was the law everywhere, that still doesn't remove the right to question it, given that laws are derived from the people.

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Old July 24, 2019, 04:39 PM   #73
davidsog
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The only state I'm aware of that accepts a DD214 as proof of firearms safety training is Florida.
Only Florida expedites a CCW application with a DD214. Most states accept it in leu of firearms training.

A Basic Trainee fires more ammunition and receives more firearms training than the majority of LEO's.

Quote:
As many veterans already know, several states show their gratitude to active duty and honorably discharged service members by making the process of acquiring a gun or concealed carry permit a little easier.

For instance:

Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, New Mexico and Texas are all states that offer waived or discounted gun licensing fees to eligible veterans.
Colorado, Illinois, Iowa, Kentucky, Maryland, Montana, New Mexico, Ohio, Oregon, Texas, West Virginia and Wisconsin all allow qualified veterans to either take fewer hours of required firearms training courses or skip them all together, depending on the state.
Maine, Missouri, Oklahoma, Tennessee and Texas have lowered the legal age for gun and/or concealed carry permits to 18 for qualified veterans only.
Florida is the only state so far that actually expedites the process of granting concealed carry permits to veterans.
https://dd214direct.com/veteran-need-guncc-permit/
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Old July 24, 2019, 04:54 PM   #74
davidsog
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not all states and thus not all members of law enforcement accept a DD214 carte blanche
If that is what you think was said, OK.

Here is another state not on that list:

Quote:
Exemptions from training requirements


The following persons are exempt from training and already qualify for an Arizona CCW permit:



Active duty (any State) P.O.S.T. certified peace officer
Active duty Federally credentialed peace officer
Honorably retired federal, state or local peace officer (or judge) with a minimum of 10 years of service
An active duty county detention officer who has been weapons certified by an employing agency.
Active duty military (age 19 or older) or general or honorably discharged (DD-214)
Anyone with an expired or current CCW permit from any state, or a certificate of completion from a firearms safety course approved by the Department of Public Safety, or any firearms course taught by law enforcement officer or agency, or any course taught by an NRA certified instructor.
http://www.ccw-permit.com/ccw-training-exemptions.htm
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Old July 24, 2019, 05:11 PM   #75
davidsog
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Most states require no firearms training at all to get a CCW. Most states that do have a training requirement accept a DD214.

In many states including New York a valid DD214 allows you to apply for a firearms license when younger than age 21 in addition to waiving the requirement for firearms training:

Quote:
A person under 21 who has been honorably discharged from military service is eligible to apply for a firearms license.
https://www.ny.gov/services/apply-firearms-license


Peoples Republic of California you do not need the firearms training:

Quote:
Firearm Safety Certificate Exemptions
Quote:
Military - Active Duty
Exemption Code: X21; Authorized by Penal Code section 31700, subdivision (a)(10)
An active member of the United States Armed Forces, the National Guard, or the Air
National Guard.
Page 4 of 33
 Military - Reserve
Exemption Code: X22; Authorized by Penal Code section 31700, subdivision (a)(10)
The active reserve components of the United States Armed Forces.
 Military - Honorably Retired
Exemption Code: X25; Authorized by Penal Code section 31700, subdivision (a)(10)
Any person honorably retired from the United States Armed Forces, the National Guard,
or the Air National Guard.
https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...rms/hscman.pdf
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