The post about being mugged got me thinking...

[misnomerga]

There was a post in here a few days back about a guy who got mugged and was relieved of his cell phone. That caused me to ask a question which I thought I would share with y'all. Scenario is you are being mugged (okay I hear all the comments about situational awareness will never get you in this situation just bear with me and at least contemplate the thought after all no one operates in perpetual yellow all the time) and you are packing. The robber obviously has the drop on you so now he asks for your stuff; watch, wallet, ring, and...... whatever else. When would enough be enough? Would you comply and turn your gun over to him as well?

[Nickel Plated]

I would only turn over the usual things they would expect. Wallet and phone. Other than that, I won't be helping them do their job.
But sometimes the BG will try to frisk you to see if you're hiding anything. At which point they have their guard down and depening on the situation, you are free to give them a whoopin.

[DiscoRacing]

nope... I dont have a gun

[Skans]

If someone wants my trackphone, they can have it. I hate the thing, as I hate all cell phones, and it would give me a good excuse to be cellphone free for up to 3 months.

Ring - he'll have to kill me to get that.

Wallet - he'd get about $7, but on principle, I'd probably not turn it over...but it depends on whether I think I have a fighting chance.

If I had a gun with me, there'd be no question - I'd shoot-to-kill the mugger before being forced to give him one penny. That's just how I am.

[45Gunner]

I would throw him whatever he first asked for and then draw my gun while he is distracted looking at whatever it is I have thrown.

I would then take my stuff back, and whatever else he has on him, make him undress completely and force him to run away naked as a jaybird. Wonder how he will explain that to the cops that pick him up?

[FreakGasolineFight]

I would then take my stuff back, and whatever else he has on him, make him undress completely and force him to run away naked as a jaybird. Wonder how he will explain that to the cops that pick him up?

He'd probably explain that by telling the cops that somebody held a gun on him, took all his stuff and made him run away naked as a jaybird. And then you'd get arrested.

[XD Gunner]

Would you comply and turn your gun over to him as well?

No, I may turn over whats IN the gun.

[CWPinSC]

He's "got the drop on me" with what weapon? Am I alone? One mugger only?

Knife? I take 3-4 quick steps backward and away from his knife hand while drawing my gun. At that point, I'm pulling the trigger as soon as my muzzle is covering him.

Gun? I slowly comply, fumbling, maybe dropping my stuff, possibly throwing it over his shoulder. Acting scared, pleading, faking heart attack, etc. At the first instance I'm not covered by his weapon or he's sufficiently distracted, I'm gonna draw. If I think he's gonna take me out anyway, I'll try to take him with me.

[The Great Mahoo]

Hard to say, really. It all comes down to how the situation is playing out, and under what circumstances led to it.

Just one mugger? How is he armed? Where is this? What are the ambiant conditions?

I wouldn't normally risk a fatal confrontation for a simple mugging. I certainly wouldn't offer anything, but would drop on the ground whatever they demanded. I wouldn't make a move for my weapon unless I was damn certain I had the oppertunity.

Cash? there isn't much anway. I probably wouldn't want to turn over my whole wallet, since it'd be a pain to get new copies of my ID's and certification cards; theres not really anything anyone can use in there anyway.
Watch, fine.
Phone? maybe, but extremely begrudgingly. I don't know any phone numbers anymore and would be lost without it.
Knife? probably, but might have a hard time getting to unless they really had me covered and searched for it themselves.
Gun? No way, unless absolutely no other way out. First, its the most expensive thing I have on me. Second, I won't help make his job easier in the future.

[ZeSpectre]

I might, possibly, maybe (barely) consider "tossing away" my firearm...if that would remove it from play period.

There is absolutely no way whatsoever that I would hand over my firearm to a badguy. Does that mean I'm going to wind up bleeding out on the ground? Maybe, but that beats some of the things I've seen happen to people.

There ARE "fates worse than death" and I've had the misfortune to see a couple of them in my life.

(Don't get me started on a criminal stupid enough to try for a wedding and/or engagement ring. One of the most torn-up would-be robbers I ever saw got that way trying to take an heirloom engagement ring from a fairly small woman).

[Rayndeon]

Quite likely, unless the mugger is quite experienced, if you go for your gun, it will look like you are trying to take out your wallet. At that point, you could draw, fire from the hip, move sideways of the threat. His or her mind will be expecting you to take out your wallet, so when you take out your gun instead, they will be slower to react, giving you enough opportunity to fire and move sideways of the threat.

However, that can be something of a gamble*, if the mugger has experience in that type of thing and may full well expect you to draw a gun or a knife or something like that.

*Isn't everything though, when it comes to dealing with face-to-face SD encounters?

[Evan Thomas]

I've never been mugged, but I know a few people who have been.

In each case, one of three things happened:

1. They were knocked forcefully to the ground and their wallets, watches, etc., were taken while they were semi-conscious or had the wind knocked out of them. The opportunity to resist was nonexistent, which is why a lot of muggers use this technique.

2. The mugger "got the drop on them" with a gun or knife, right off the bat, and demanded (not "asked for") their stuff. Even if they were armed, the chance of resisting successfully was very small; someone who had trained seriously for this scenario might be able to do so, but without specific training, you'd have to be very lucky to draw a weapon and use it without being shot or stabbed yourself.

3. They were hit/grabbed, they resisted physically in some way, and then the mugger pulled a gun. Things then proceeded as in #2.

All these people (not that big a sample) were lucky; the mugger took their stuff and left, which was the best possible outcome once the attack had occurred. By the time you've actually been mugged, your chances of resisting successfully aren't all that good; and if you're facing more than one attacker, well... These characters do this stuff for a living, and some of them are fairly good at it.

Originally Posted by The Great Mahoo

I wouldn't normally risk a fatal confrontation for a simple mugging. I certainly wouldn't offer anything, but would drop on the ground whatever they demanded. I wouldn't make a move for my weapon unless I was damn certain I had the oppertunity.

Exactly. If you have the opportunity... throw the wallet and run like heck. Draw your weapon while running, and use it if, and only if, they come after you.

It's all very well to say "No way are they getting my gun..." but just how are you going to keep this from happening if someone is holding a gun on you? Unless you've trained for this, it's mostly wishful thinking and/or chest-thumping, it seems to me.

[misnomerga]

I speak from first hand experience although it was quite a while ago when I was growing up in a place called Fort Apache, The Bronx. I think you have shared some real nuggets of wisdom and insight about being caught in this situation and the dynamics of the possibilities. I do not deny visualizing a romanticized image of subduing the BG and coming out on top. Reality in all it's harshness tells me a different story and that it would be untenable to go for your gun in that circumstance. The thing that bothers me is exactly what one poster stated, I can't envision anything good happening by turning over one's firearm to the BG. The gnawing thing in the pit of your stomach is what to do. John Wayne only lives in movies. Going back to the wonderful experience of mugging, it makes you feel so powerless, inept, and humiliated. My dad was mugged in a NYC subway station where the guy put a knife to his throat and threatened to slit it. Poor dad had the shakes from that day until I got him out of NYC.

[ZeSpectre]

It's all very well to say "No way are they getting my gun..." but just how are you going to keep this from happening if someone is holding a gun on you? Unless you've trained for this, it's mostly wishful thinking and/or chest-thumping, it seems to me.

Or a willingness to be shot at/shot. Don't kid yourself, there are plenty of people out there who would risk taking a bullet before they'd give in. I've met a few including one who took the chance and lost (died) but whom I am sure wouldn't have done it any other way.

[Old Grump]

If I remember correctly the guy was alone, over seas, stuck in traffic, no gun on him and talking on his cellphone so he was caught by surprise. Resistance wasn't an option. If he had resisted and succeeded the other two muggers would have had him cold. Talking big is one thing, facing a gun barrel pointed at your face from inches away while sitting in a car with a phone held up to your ear is a no win situation. He did the only thing he could do and was lucky.

In Wisconsin and Illinois unless you are an officer of the law authorized to carry in your vehicle we are all at the same risk. Either we break the law and defend ourselves or we obey the law and are sitting ducks for the same kind of situation. Only thing we have for protection is windows up and A/C on in the heat of the summer.

If you hate A/C like I do the windows will be down. I don't have a cell phone turned on in the car, I'm anal about that, driving is for driving, not talking. Still I would be a sitting duck if a gunman came up to me in traffic and car jacked me. By law I cannot resist or I have either violated my states gun laws or I violated his civil rights and if I hurt him defending myself he can and probably will sue me. The price for living in a civilized society is a steep one. Best I can do if I am stuck in traffic and cannot make a run for it is ask him to please dial 911 for me after he has stolen my phone.

I'm a step away from a full blown rant here but suffice it to say muggers do not choose victims by their willingness and ability to resist, they pick those who are perceived to be an easy victim and that's what most of us are unless you are an outlaw or you live where you can arm yourself.

[LordofWar]

Surrender my gun! NEVER!

[BillCA]

The basic rule is to NEVER surrender your gun because there are too many whackjobs out there who would think it's "funny" to kill you with your own gun.

Circumstances are such that you're just as likely to be confronted with 2 or 3 assailants ready to whoop your butt if you try anything. I'll toss 'em my decoy wallet with about $7 in it and some really old credit cards long expired. No cell phone, I hate the things and my watch is a cheap one. I'm and old slow target, but if my chance comes to dodge between parked cars and draw, I will, especially if they're going to search me for valuables.

The only way to guard against the "hit & run" tactic is to be aware of what's going on around you. Your instincts may tell you something is wrong, so listen to them. Take some defensive action before trouble starts - go back/retreat, prepare your pepper spray, turn in a different direction or even just run.

[lomaxanderson]

I would try to distract and draw. I would never give up my gun if at all possible.Your odds are better armed than disarmed...

If he is close enough for me to get my hands on he will be in for the fight of his life...cause I will be fighting for mine with EVERYTHING I can get my hands on...

But I have never been one to comply easily...always looking for option "c" in an a/b question.