Weapon placement with kids around? - Page 2

WeedWacker · October 23, 2009, 06:45 AM

Quote:

I don't want my kid touching a friend's Dad's gun

I wonder if it's more of a "better they know what to do" instance instead of them finding it and thinking "this is cool" *grabs grip* BANG!

I do agree with you though, my understanding being that if they are old enough to learn how to unload it, then they are old enough to understand not to touch without an adult around. If they still don't understand this they are not old enough to be left unattended by an adult.

P97 · October 23, 2009, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Having raised five boys, I'm of the firm opinion that "childproof" anything is a sick joke, and "out of the kids' reach" is a fantasy engaged in by the sorts of foolish people who are convinced that their children never did figure out where the Christmas presents are stored or get into them prematurely.

pax

I'm with you on this. I have Grandkids in the house a lot. I keep all my firearms locked in a Safe, except my CCW, and my house gun is my CCW. I carry in the house, same as anywhere else. It is within reach, whether I'm in bed or the bathroom. I feel like the time it would take to get to a weapon, anywhere out of reach, could cost me my life.

wyobohunter · October 25, 2009, 01:46 AM

My 3 year old is very curious about guns. She knows that she isn't allowed to touch and constantly says to me "when I grow up I can?" and here's the funny on "When I turn into a boy I can?"... Not sure where the second one comes from, guess she doesn't see her mom handle guns and figures since she's interested she will likely turn into a boy someday (lets hope not

). I just tell her "you don't have to be a boy, just a bigger girl". Anyhow... One handgun in the bedside biometric safe, the rest in a gun safe in the garage. I don't trust any 3 year old to "always be good".

Dannyl · October 25, 2009, 06:24 AM

[QUOTE]wonder if it's more of a "better they know what to do" instance instead of them finding it and thinking "this is cool" *grabs grip* BANG![/QUOTE

HI,
It goes back to how you teach the kids to act in the event that they see a firearm unattended. (particularly when you are not around, at a friend's house for example).
for this one needs to talk to the kids (often enough, once is not enough) about what to do (and what not to do) if they do find a firearm lying around .

It also helps to be informed regarding the parents of your kids friends (or your relatives) where your kids go to play. (do they have guns? how do they control them?) and if necessary discuss your concerns with them.

Brgds,
Danny

Rich Keagy · October 25, 2009, 07:53 AM

Remove firing pins from household firearms that are only shot once in a while. It only takes a minute or two. Tape them to the guns.
When you teach a kid something about guns (IE come and tell me if you see one or some ammo out of place), make sure they have a chance of using the information.
When my daughter was 3, I taught her to tell me if she sees any loose ammo or guns not in their places.
I left a 20 ga shot shell (bright yellow) where I knew my daughter would notice it, giving her a chance to use what she learned. Sure enough, within a few minutes I heard 'Hey Dad!'.

pax · October 25, 2009, 08:57 AM

wyobohunter,

Sounds as if it's time to give her the first lesson about guns, and let her handle an unloaded one under your watchful eye. A kid who lives in a home with firearms and is expressing lots of curiosity like that needs to have her curiosity defanged as much as possible.

pax

MTT TL · October 25, 2009, 09:36 AM

The more familiar my boys got with firearms the less fascinated they became. Requiring a thorough cleaning after shooting tends to put a little restraint on requests to the range as well.

tlm225 · October 26, 2009, 10:11 AM

I raised three kids around guns, all of them are now in their 20's & 30's. I realized early on that curiosity is one of the most powerful forces in a childs life. They see guns on tv virtually every day and to be simply told "don't touch" only intensifies the attraction. My solution was to satisfy the curiosity. Each of my kids were told that they could see and handle any of my guns any time they desired. All they had to do was come to me and ask. I would stop whatever I was doing right then and fetch the gun(s) of their choice. Together we would check to verify that it was unloaded and they were allowed to handle and dry fire it in a safe manner. When they were old enough they went to the range with me and shot the guns that they could handle. The consequence of sneaking to check the guns was a loss of handling them. But, since there was no need to sneak, it didn't happen. After a brief period my daughters lost interest, but knew safe handling practices. My son "pestered" me for years and is now my regular range companion. Being adults on their own now, all have stated that they never felt the desire to access my guns without my presence.

You know your children far better than I do and this method may not work for you. I just thought that I would share my style with others.

WW2 · October 26, 2009, 12:54 PM

Here in California the law is VERY specific on the consequences of ANY person under the age of 18 obtaining your gun. And if someone is hurt, well you better have a good lawyer and lots of money!

Basically, California requires all guns not on your person to be locked up. The law strongly recommends that the ammunition be locked in a separate cabinet in a different room than the guns.

Of course, self defense is not a question since you would not be able to quickly access your guns in the event of a self defense situation unless you carry at home. CCW outside of your home; well good luck.

erwos · October 26, 2009, 02:36 PM

We don't have kids yet, but our guns are all securely locked up... most in the big safe, others in a smaller fast-open safe. While I appreciate that such things are huge investments, so are children. If you insist on a shotgun in the bedroom for HD, there should be some locking rack solutions that you can make use of...

The other part of the problem is that just because your kids are genuinely safe gun-handlers does NOT mean their friends will be. Unless you are banning all non-family-members from your house (really?), just teaching your kids isn't enough to ensure there are any problems. Multiple layers of safety measures strike me as a good idea.

pax's website is completely amazing, and she gives what seems to be great advice. Definitely recommend anyone with guns and kids read it.

Piper Cub · October 26, 2009, 04:04 PM

Californis sucks...register your ammo!!!

threegun · October 27, 2009, 08:03 AM

Quote:

No, I meant what I said. Trusting that the kids -- even very young kids -- can't or won't climb is dangerous and foolish. Sorry if that offends you.

As parents we kinda get a feel for our children. Both my boys are hyper smart and extremely strong however there was a period in time that they could absolutely NOT climb high enough to get into my closet. So yes it offends me to be called a fool for using height as a tool when its appropriate.

Get a 2 year old who is capable of getting up to my closet and you can have my guns. No you don't get to prop a ladder on the top shelf LOL.

My boys could possibly drag a chair and place items on it. However to suggest that at that age they had the strength, balance, and dexterity needed to both stack the necessary items and then climb them without falling all while doing so without me or mom catching them is just silly.

Now I do believe that height should be eliminated before a child's third birthday. Sooner if you have a PAX baby.

9mmkungfu · October 27, 2009, 04:48 PM

No guns are accessible to children. G26 stays with me most of the time; everything else is locked up.

Firepower! · October 28, 2009, 01:35 PM

I think locking guns up seems to be the prevailing thought here, but what do you do with the damn key. I am sort of a person who tries to carry as little as possible on person and another set of keys would bother the heck out of me! If I dont keep the keys on me then they are in danger for 'smart' kids to find. There is another thought here which is to educate kids on firearms safe handling. I think there need to be a mix of both of these thoughts, and with a way to satisfy the curious nature of the kids by taking them to shooting often.....?

zombieslayer · October 28, 2009, 01:44 PM

i knew someone who, when 4 got into an uncle's LOCKED gun cabinet (don't know how). her cousin blew off her arm with a shotgun. It was re-attatched and is fine, but it's a miracle (the Shriners hospital). When I was 6, I owned a .22 and a .410. I think Education is the absolute best defense against ignorant actions by children. My 7 year old can handle shooting responsibly, and he knows what will happen on the other end of the muzzle.

Skans · October 28, 2009, 01:49 PM

If you keep all of your guns locked up, ammo stored separately, etc., good luck grabbing hold of it when you need it. Might as well sell those guns because if all you do is keep all of them locked up, you really will never need them.

Maybe I'll give my 6 year old my glock and see if she can even rack the slide and pull the trigger...unloaded of course. I never keep a round chambered.

zombieslayer · October 28, 2009, 02:10 PM

I've seen a 7 year old shoot an XD

RG Stewart · October 28, 2009, 03:02 PM

Two thoughts on this subject:

When my children were small, the only loaded firearm in the house was the Colt 1911- in condition 3. The small hands didn't possess enough strength to cycle the slide and chamber a round. The curiosity was appeased at the appropriate time.

The curiosity factor is going to present itself eventually. When training the youngsters, be sure to include some interactive targets, like melons or pumpkins, which demonstrate the effects of the bullet far better than paper targets can.

threegun · October 28, 2009, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Maybe I'll give my 6 year old my glock and see if she can even rack the slide and pull the trigger...unloaded of course. I never keep a round chambered.

My 10 year old..........built like a block and stronger for his size than most other kids, couldn't rack the slide on my Glocks until recently. Still today he has trouble because of his smallish hands.

win-lose · October 28, 2009, 04:13 PM

I have 3 boys (8, 7, 5). My strategy is 3 fold:

1) The kids or anyone else has NO access to any household gun. I have one gun, which is either on me or locked in a quick access gun safe. My wife has one gun, locked in her quick access gun safe. All other guns are locked in the bigger gun safe. All ammo is locked in an ammo closet.

2) I continuously teach my kids about gun safety. The first thing I taught them is what to do if they come across a gun (1- Hands in pocket, 2- leave the area where the gun is, & 3- Tell a grown up or call the police if there is no grown up around). I then taught them the 4 laws of gun safety.

3) I try to reasonably satisfy my kids' curiosity about guns through dialogue and carefully controlled handling activities.

At the end of the day though... Strong controls trump everything else.

Skans · October 28, 2009, 04:14 PM

Quote:

I've seen a 7 year old shoot an XD

A two year old could probably shoot an XD. Could he rack the slide, load the magazine and insert magazine into bottom of pistol?

threegun · October 28, 2009, 04:16 PM

Quote:

The curiosity factor is going to present itself eventually. When training the youngsters, be sure to include some interactive targets, like melons or pumpkins, which demonstrate the effects of the bullet far better than paper targets can.

This was the single most effective visual display of the destructive power in a firearm.......according to my 13 year old. He told me that he was amazed at the power and it made him understand why I was so concerned with safety.

pax · October 28, 2009, 05:18 PM

Skans ~

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=184646

Posts #12 and #15 should answer your question.

pax

Stevie-Ray · October 28, 2009, 05:33 PM

Quote:

I walked into my kitchen one afternoon during naptime and found my redhead, my middle son, sitting on top of the refrigerator. He had pulled out the drawers on the kitchen cabinet to form a "stairway" to the counter, then stacked the toaster and our breadbox so he could clamber up to reach the top of the fridge. He was 23 months old.

LOL. My Godson was quite the adventurous child when he was very young, also. His mother found him in the freezer, not looking in mind you, but just his little legs sticking out a bit. It was a top freezer in a refrigerator and she still has no idea how he got in there. His dad once took an extension ladder and set it against the house for a roof repair, then went into the garage 10 feet away to get his tools. His wife hollered out to him to watch the boy for a few minutes. He immediately came out and asked where he was. You guessed it; he was walking around on the roof. These little episodes, which were about normal for him, happened before he turned 3 years old. There were no guns in their house until that boy was marrying age, which was probably wise for them.

Skans · October 28, 2009, 05:52 PM

I guess the bottom line is: do the best you can to secure your weapons, but still be able to access at least one quickly. I suppose it's a fine line how exactly everyone goes about doing this. Probably comes down to many factors such as: Your house, your kid, your wife, your kind of gun, your room, your budget, etc.

Probably not one of us have a single solution on exactly how to do this.

October 25, 2009, 01:46 AM	#28
wyobohunter Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2008 Location: Back in Wyoming Posts: 1,125	My 3 year old is very curious about guns. She knows that she isn't allowed to touch and constantly says to me "when I grow up I can?" and here's the funny on "When I turn into a boy I can?"... Not sure where the second one comes from, guess she doesn't see her mom handle guns and figures since she's interested she will likely turn into a boy someday (lets hope not). I just tell her "you don't have to be a boy, just a bigger girl". Anyhow... One handgun in the bedside biometric safe, the rest in a gun safe in the garage. I don't trust any 3 year old to "always be good".

October 25, 2009, 06:24 AM	#29
Dannyl Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Cape Town - South Africa Posts: 627	[QUOTE]wonder if it's more of a "better they know what to do" instance instead of them finding it and thinking "this is cool" grabs grip BANG![/QUOTE HI, It goes back to how you teach the kids to act in the event that they see a firearm unattended. (particularly when you are not around, at a friend's house for example). for this one needs to talk to the kids (often enough, once is not enough) about what to do (and what not to do) if they do find a firearm lying around . It also helps to be informed regarding the parents of your kids friends (or your relatives) where your kids go to play. (do they have guns? how do they control them?) and if necessary discuss your concerns with them. Brgds, Danny Last edited by Dannyl; October 25, 2009 at 11:40 AM.

October 25, 2009, 08:57 AM	#31
pax Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2000 Location: In a state of flux Posts: 7,520	wyobohunter, Sounds as if it's time to give her the first lesson about guns, and let her handle an unloaded one under your watchful eye. A kid who lives in a home with firearms and is expressing lots of curiosity like that needs to have her curiosity defanged as much as possible. pax __________________ Kathy Jackson My personal website: Cornered Cat

October 26, 2009, 10:11 AM	#33
tlm225 Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 962	I raised three kids around guns, all of them are now in their 20's & 30's. I realized early on that curiosity is one of the most powerful forces in a childs life. They see guns on tv virtually every day and to be simply told "don't touch" only intensifies the attraction. My solution was to satisfy the curiosity. Each of my kids were told that they could see and handle any of my guns any time they desired. All they had to do was come to me and ask. I would stop whatever I was doing right then and fetch the gun(s) of their choice. Together we would check to verify that it was unloaded and they were allowed to handle and dry fire it in a safe manner. When they were old enough they went to the range with me and shot the guns that they could handle. The consequence of sneaking to check the guns was a loss of handling them. But, since there was no need to sneak, it didn't happen. After a brief period my daughters lost interest, but knew safe handling practices. My son "pestered" me for years and is now my regular range companion. Being adults on their own now, all have stated that they never felt the desire to access my guns without my presence. You know your children far better than I do and this method may not work for you. I just thought that I would share my style with others. __________________ All that is neccessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

October 26, 2009, 12:54 PM	#34
WW2 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2009 Location: Southern California. Posts: 254	Check your local laws... Here in California the law is VERY specific on the consequences of ANY person under the age of 18 obtaining your gun. And if someone is hurt, well you better have a good lawyer and lots of money! Basically, California requires all guns not on your person to be locked up. The law strongly recommends that the ammunition be locked in a separate cabinet in a different room than the guns. Of course, self defense is not a question since you would not be able to quickly access your guns in the event of a self defense situation unless you carry at home. CCW outside of your home; well good luck.

October 25, 2009, 07:53 AM	#30
Rich Keagy Member Join Date: June 30, 2009 Location: southern California Posts: 48	Remove firing pins from household firearms that are only shot once in a while. It only takes a minute or two. Tape them to the guns. When you teach a kid something about guns (IE come and tell me if you see one or some ammo out of place), make sure they have a chance of using the information. When my daughter was 3, I taught her to tell me if she sees any loose ammo or guns not in their places. I left a 20 ga shot shell (bright yellow) where I knew my daughter would notice it, giving her a chance to use what she learned. Sure enough, within a few minutes I heard 'Hey Dad!'.

October 25, 2009, 09:36 AM	#32
MTT TL Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2009 Location: Quadling Country Posts: 2,780	The more familiar my boys got with firearms the less fascinated they became. Requiring a thorough cleaning after shooting tends to put a little restraint on requests to the range as well.

October 26, 2009, 02:36 PM	#35
erwos Member Join Date: April 8, 2009 Posts: 93	We don't have kids yet, but our guns are all securely locked up... most in the big safe, others in a smaller fast-open safe. While I appreciate that such things are huge investments, so are children. If you insist on a shotgun in the bedroom for HD, there should be some locking rack solutions that you can make use of... The other part of the problem is that just because your kids are genuinely safe gun-handlers does NOT mean their friends will be. Unless you are banning all non-family-members from your house (really?), just teaching your kids isn't enough to ensure there are any problems. Multiple layers of safety measures strike me as a good idea. pax's website is completely amazing, and she gives what seems to be great advice. Definitely recommend anyone with guns and kids read it.

October 26, 2009, 04:04 PM	#36
Piper Cub Junior member Join Date: February 5, 2009 Location: TEXAS Posts: 491	Californis sucks...register your ammo!!!

October 27, 2009, 04:48 PM	#38
9mmkungfu Member Join Date: June 29, 2005 Posts: 26	No guns are accessible to children. G26 stays with me most of the time; everything else is locked up.

October 28, 2009, 01:35 PM	#39
Firepower! Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2008 Posts: 2,109	I think locking guns up seems to be the prevailing thought here, but what do you do with the damn key. I am sort of a person who tries to carry as little as possible on person and another set of keys would bother the heck out of me! If I dont keep the keys on me then they are in danger for 'smart' kids to find. There is another thought here which is to educate kids on firearms safe handling. I think there need to be a mix of both of these thoughts, and with a way to satisfy the curious nature of the kids by taking them to shooting often.....?

October 28, 2009, 01:44 PM	#40
zombieslayer Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,198	i knew someone who, when 4 got into an uncle's LOCKED gun cabinet (don't know how). her cousin blew off her arm with a shotgun. It was re-attatched and is fine, but it's a miracle (the Shriners hospital). When I was 6, I owned a .22 and a .410. I think Education is the absolute best defense against ignorant actions by children. My 7 year old can handle shooting responsibly, and he knows what will happen on the other end of the muzzle. __________________ "An angry prophet, denouncing the hypocrisies of our time"

October 28, 2009, 01:49 PM	#41
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	If you keep all of your guns locked up, ammo stored separately, etc., good luck grabbing hold of it when you need it. Might as well sell those guns because if all you do is keep all of them locked up, you really will never need them. Maybe I'll give my 6 year old my glock and see if she can even rack the slide and pull the trigger...unloaded of course. I never keep a round chambered.

October 28, 2009, 02:10 PM	#42
zombieslayer Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,198	I've seen a 7 year old shoot an XD __________________ "An angry prophet, denouncing the hypocrisies of our time"

October 28, 2009, 03:02 PM	#43
RG Stewart Member Join Date: August 1, 2006 Location: Ga Posts: 54	Two thoughts on this subject: When my children were small, the only loaded firearm in the house was the Colt 1911- in condition 3. The small hands didn't possess enough strength to cycle the slide and chamber a round. The curiosity was appeased at the appropriate time. The curiosity factor is going to present itself eventually. When training the youngsters, be sure to include some interactive targets, like melons or pumpkins, which demonstrate the effects of the bullet far better than paper targets can.

October 28, 2009, 04:13 PM	#45
win-lose Senior Member Join Date: August 3, 2009 Posts: 509	I have 3 boys (8, 7, 5). My strategy is 3 fold: 1) The kids or anyone else has NO access to any household gun. I have one gun, which is either on me or locked in a quick access gun safe. My wife has one gun, locked in her quick access gun safe. All other guns are locked in the bigger gun safe. All ammo is locked in an ammo closet. 2) I continuously teach my kids about gun safety. The first thing I taught them is what to do if they come across a gun (1- Hands in pocket, 2- leave the area where the gun is, & 3- Tell a grown up or call the police if there is no grown up around). I then taught them the 4 laws of gun safety. 3) I try to reasonably satisfy my kids' curiosity about guns through dialogue and carefully controlled handling activities. At the end of the day though... Strong controls trump everything else.

October 28, 2009, 05:18 PM	#48
pax Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2000 Location: In a state of flux Posts: 7,520	Skans ~ http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=184646 Posts #12 and #15 should answer your question. pax __________________ Kathy Jackson My personal website: Cornered Cat

October 28, 2009, 05:52 PM	#50
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	I guess the bottom line is: do the best you can to secure your weapons, but still be able to access at least one quickly. I suppose it's a fine line how exactly everyone goes about doing this. Probably comes down to many factors such as: Your house, your kid, your wife, your kind of gun, your room, your budget, etc. Probably not one of us have a single solution on exactly how to do this.

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