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Old July 3, 2018, 04:10 PM   #1
DPris
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Rem SPS 16.5 Tactical .308

Comments?
Experiences?
Opinions?
Denis
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Old July 3, 2018, 10:30 PM   #2
Mobuck
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Does the 16.5 indicate the barrel length? If so, it would make a decent signal cannon.
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Old July 4, 2018, 12:11 AM   #3
heavybarrel
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I've been pondering this one, I had a PSS a few years back that was very good when I bought it used and even better after I had it tuned. I wish I knew where it was now. Failing that the SPS is one I'm looking at very hard.

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Old July 4, 2018, 01:16 AM   #4
DPris
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16.5-inch barrel.
Have the McMillan & Timney, waiting on the gun.
Interested to see if anybody else has experience with that model.
Denis
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Old July 4, 2018, 06:14 AM   #5
Bfglowkey
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Well in it's heart the 700 is a very respected action. Factory barrels from Remmington are usually solid. I think your main areas of concern will be:
Clean and treat barrel asap. Remmington has suffered a small hit in their name on the finance sh of thier rifles or lighter finish which can lead to slightly faster oxidation showing up quicker then one would expect.
Barrel length is going to prevent reaching of published velocities on factory and hand loads. So if you decide to go longer ranges you will have to deal with larger drops then with similar caliber rifles with longer barrels. Accuracy will be more then adequate if Remmington reputation holds up.
With that said if you handload be careful when trying to get the speeds. Powder selection with that caliber and shorter barrel will normally push you to faster burning powders. But that is a question and topic for the reloading forum. I am excited for you and can't wait to hear your range report and how it feels after you put it in your McMillan stock.
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Old July 4, 2018, 11:50 AM   #6
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Thanks.
Waiting on the Trijicon scope, then I'll decide on the Warne heights.
Goal is a short & handy quality package to engage from 50-400 yards, if needed.
The .308 is fairly forgiving of a shorter barrel.

I'm assured the barrel will be good.
The Hogue that comes on it's a little too flexible, so needs replacing.

Kinda looking forward to getting it all together.
Denis

Last edited by DPris; July 4, 2018 at 12:26 PM.
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Old July 4, 2018, 12:33 PM   #7
T. O'Heir
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Lotta velocity loss with a 16.5" barrel, but not exactly useless for 50 to 100 yards. Velocity out of a 16.5" barrel runs around 2600 FPS. Muzzle blast and flash will be astounding though.
Actual tests were done and reported on here.
https://rifleshooter.com/2014/12/308...ty-28-to-16-5/
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Old July 4, 2018, 12:46 PM   #8
DPris
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I corrected that 100, shoulda been 400.

The .308 is less sensitive to the shorter barrel in velocity loss than some other calibers, so not worried about that.
I want a short package.

The power should be there at 400, I'm more concerned about the accuracy.
Denis
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Old July 4, 2018, 12:59 PM   #9
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For 400 your gonna be just fine. Accuracy is much much less effected( affected...stupid English) by barrel length then velocity. Correct the 308 is more forgiving mainly due to the powders it employs ( lots of recipes with Varget, H335 etc) which are faster burning and can compensate for the short barrel. I would be interested in seeing how hot the load will be to get 2600 FPS with that barrel. What weight bullet are you going to use primarily?
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Old July 4, 2018, 01:14 PM   #10
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Ideally a 165/168, if the twist will allow.
If not, 150-ish.

I've got some Nosler Partitions waiting to be used.

The 150s would easily handle defense against people, and up to deer, but I'd prefer to go heavier.
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Old July 4, 2018, 03:29 PM   #11
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I believe that is a 12 twist. If so 165/168's won't be a problem and I'd think up to 180's would be fine. Hornady says their 178 ELD-X is fine with a 12 twist and I've had good luck with that bullet in an 12 twist Winchester. Even from a 16" barrel 400 yards shouldn't be a problem. And FWIW I've not found many negatives to using heavier 178/180 gr bullets in 308.

I'm getting 2620ish from my 22" barrels with the 178's and 2575 from my 18" Ruger Predator. Even if you only get 2500 fps at the muzzle with that bullet you're still over 1000 fps past 1300 yards. At 400 yards you're at 1900 fps and 1300 ft lbs energy.
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Old July 4, 2018, 04:04 PM   #12
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I understand it's a 1/10 twist on this short version.
Denis
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Old July 4, 2018, 05:06 PM   #13
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My 26" Savage 12 FV has some sort of love affair with the 168 grains. I need to broaden it's horizon to the heavier pills
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Old July 4, 2018, 06:13 PM   #14
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I couldn't hold a 26-inch barrel up!
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Old July 5, 2018, 07:54 AM   #15
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Yup, that model comes with a 1:10 twist barrel which should work for almost any weight pill. I have a Rem 700 SPS Tac which comes with the same Hogue stock, and it needs to be replaced. It can flex enough (especially with a bipod) to touch the barrel and interfere with harmonics. The finish on the barrel isn't great, but isn't horrible either. I've had mine for a few years now, and it looks the same as when I purchased it. Mine happens to be a .223, and although a sample size of one is anecdotal, it shoots really well with favored bullets. Can do 1/2 MOA all day long. Post some pic's when you get yours set up.
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Old July 5, 2018, 10:03 AM   #16
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I know a man in Pavilion Wyoming who has one. So far, no problems, but to be very honest, I prefer the Mossberg MVP over it. Accuracy of the 2 is about the same.
The Mossberg has a laminated wood stock (Some have plastic) and those that are laminated can be shaped and re-worked to suit the owner. That's what I don't like about plastic...... you don't get to customize them much.
Both triggers feel about the same, but the Mossberg trigger has not gotten them successfully sued.

Neither has a safety the locks down the bolt handle when on. (A criticism of both from me)

The Mossberg uses BOTH M14 and AR10 magazines and is very smooth with both.

The Mossberg has a floating bolt head and a "Savage style" barrel nut system so the barrel nut is not as attractive as the Remington system, but for making an accurate rifle quickly is is quite a good system.

The action on the MVP seems less "finished" then the Remington, but the 5 that I know of around here (4 other owners, and myself) are all quite smooth to operate. The bolt of the Remington has far less "slop" when it's to the rear, so it seems to be held to tighter tolerances in it's bolt to receiver fit.

The Mossberg Extractor is the "T-Head" type so it can be easily and cheaply replaces if ever you need to. Works just like the push feed M70 Winchester, the Savage, the T/C and many others. The Remington extractor is the standard Remington cer-clip type.

The Mossberg is made in a way that the bolt handle cannot pop off, and that's something the Remington is known for occasionally.

When I look at the web I see both rifles are about the same price.

The Remington is definitely "nicer" in it's metal finish. But I believe the MVP is of a better design. As a gunsmith I have to fix the broken and "sick" guns and there are a LOT more M700s in the USA then there are Mossberg MVPs So it follows that I would have to repair M700, M721s M722s and so on...more then a rifles that has only been in existence for a few years.
But so far I have yet to have anything needing repair on a 308 Mossberg MVP and as I said, the bolt handle cannot become a problem like the Remington, so that alone tells me that the Mossberg scores that point over the Remington.
The extractor on the MVP is probably better and even if it's not, (time will tell) it's easier and far cheaper to fix. Point #2 scored for the Mossberg.

Use of the 2 detachable Box mags ...... well, that can be a point in favor of the MVP in the minds of some, but not others. Many have no use or desire for a 10 or 20 round mag, and I believe many others would buy a MVP if they could buy a shorter 5 round mag. That's a detail I think Mossberg should address.

And BOTH companies should make the safety lock the bolt handle closed !!!!!!


Just my opinion.

Others may vary.
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Old July 5, 2018, 10:55 AM   #17
DPris
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The one Mossberg .308 I worked with didn't have a smooth bolt run, and I do NOT want a damned detachable mag in the way.
Otherwise, it shot well.
Thanks for the suggestion.

I'm aware of the flex in the Hogue stock, that's one reason there's a McMillan sitting 6 feet from me in the office waiting on the gun to arrive.
The Timney trigger with 2.5-pound break sitting with it removes Remington triggers entirely.

Wyo,
Thanks for the offer, but I'm already committed to the Remington.
And I'm looking to go short & portable, I wouldn't be able to do anything with a heavy 26-inch barrel.


Besides the gun itself being in the works (my Remington guy says a couple more weeks), I've also got a Trijicon scope on the way.

In setting this project up, I wanted significant upgrades to a standard factory unit, a short barrel in a quality package that could shoot decently without going full-on custom with something like a Krieger barrel & a blueprinted action.

Basically, assembly with drop-in components.
Compromise between quality & cost.
Denis

Last edited by DPris; July 5, 2018 at 11:17 AM.
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Old July 5, 2018, 02:48 PM   #18
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I think you are going to enjoy that setup very much. Every manufacturer has their own quirks. I think the best thing about the Rem 700s is the sheer amount of support you can find for them. Once you get that bugger dialed in be looking for those range reports/pics!
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Old July 5, 2018, 03:52 PM   #19
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Old July 5, 2018, 05:09 PM   #20
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Quote:
Does the 16.5 indicate the barrel length? If so, it would make a decent signal cannon.
I believe the whole idea behind the SPS tactical was to add a suppressor to the threaded barrel. This should also give a small velocity boost depending upon the load.
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Old July 7, 2018, 07:30 AM   #21
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I have the R700 ACC SD which is the same, just a 20" bbl. Excellent shooter for short range but the shorter barrel gives up a bit of velocity and precision at 600 yds where is where I do a lot of my target shooting, I bought the ACC for shooting subsonic suppressed at 200 meters. Awesome platform for this specific usage.
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Old July 8, 2018, 06:35 AM   #22
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Quote:
I corrected that 100, shoulda been 400.
The .308 is less sensitive to the shorter barrel in velocity loss than some other calibers, so not worried about that. I want a short package.
Yes, and speaking of short packages in .308, my 16.1" Mini-G pitches IMI 150gn FMJ ammo to an average of 2666fps. That same ammo averages about 2800fps from a 24" barreled bolt gun. The velocity loss is not as great as some might believe ... The quirk there, of course, is the Mini's semi-auto Garand-based gas system (using a Schuster adj M1 gas plug) as against the bolt action, but you can still get some appreciation of the drop-off in fps from the shorter tube.

Quote:
The power should be there at 400, I'm more concerned about the accuracy.
Yes, at normal 'hunting ranges' on big game animals, the shorter barrel will have little effect on killing power (foot pounds of energy) if your shot-placement puts the slug in the kill zone.

By the way, Shuff sells dozens of 16" Mini-Gs each year to Alaskan residents, with most of those having been re-barreled to .35 Whelen - for the hunting of, or protection against, big bears, Moose, caribou, etc.

Quote:
I believe the whole idea behind the SPS tactical was to add a suppressor to the threaded barrel. This should also give a small velocity boost depending upon the load.
Yes, and yes. I've shot suppressed 16" bolt guns and there is a small but consistent 'back-boost' effect on velocity from the can. The effect is also there on 16" (and shorter) semi-autos running a can.

Last edited by agtman; July 8, 2018 at 06:43 AM.
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Old July 8, 2018, 07:45 AM   #23
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You think a 16.5” barrel .308 is loud, my SBR is a .308 with a 12” barrel, . It now wears a linear comp... My feelings towards Remington aside, congrats on the new rifle. Not a Remington but a short barreled .308 story. I used to have a Savage 10P-SR in .308 with an 18” barrel. I used it in a rifle/target competition once. This comp was steel targets from 100-300 yards and firing from all different positions. Sitting, kneeling, laying, standing, and any other position you can think of. Most of the other shooters brought custom rifles of some sort with the most common being chassis rifles with 24” or longer barrels. Me and my little savage did better than over half of the other shooters and shined when standing because of the light weight and short length.
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Old July 8, 2018, 12:05 PM   #24
DPris
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Shorties CAN shoot.
The key is good material to begin with.

I've had Savages here that shot well, but wanted the little SPS base metal to build on.
Depending on how well the bolt's set up, it MIGHT get an aftermarket there, too.

Hope it's not needed, the idea is use as many drop-in components as possible with as little gunsmithing as possible, while still getting good performance.
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Old July 9, 2018, 06:21 AM   #25
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Always wanted a 16 in 308 bolt. Have several 16 in semi's. With shorter frame/arms, longer barrels move that center of gravity way out there. Thinking on getting RPR 308 cut down and threaded. Would fold down nice and compact.
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