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Old January 14, 2009, 06:31 PM   #1
RamSlammer
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Correct 158gr LSWC .38 SPL load using Unique?

The two references I have handy disagree by quite a bit.

Modern Reloading says 4.0 grains to start to 4.3 max will give 869/920 fps

Alliant's website states 4.7 grains makes only 816 fps (and from a 6" bbl at that!)

What gives?
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Old January 14, 2009, 06:50 PM   #2
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You often find descrepancies like that from loading manual to loading manual, test barrel to test barrel.

I usually use 5 to 5.5 grains of Unique for a nice warm .38 SP load. This should be fine in modern .38 Specials, but start with about 4 or 4.5 and work your way up while watching for pressure signs, e.g. sticky extraction, flattened primers, etc.
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Old January 14, 2009, 08:03 PM   #3
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If you want a good target load for the 38 Spl. 3.3 grs. Red Dot pushing a 158 gr, SWC, a fantistic small game load also.
I use this in my Ruger Blackhack 357 mag.
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Old January 14, 2009, 11:49 PM   #4
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The ole Speer Manual #9 says 4.3 to 4.7 max. of Unique 829 to 897 fps.
Its a liitle dirty but shoots well.
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Old January 15, 2009, 01:06 AM   #5
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Don't forget to look at the overall length/seating depth. I've seen some pretty big differences between books, especially with cast bullets and 38 seems worst. The bullseye target crowd looking for accuracy with deeper seating and light powder charges and then the more practical loads as longer and a wee bit more powder. Also some of the swaged bullets are made from such soft lead that faster than 800 fps gets the barrel real dirty with lead.
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Old January 15, 2009, 01:19 AM   #6
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It is not uncommon for lead bullet target loads to be specified with a maximum that is below SAAMI pressure maximum. They are just intended to keep the load in a normal target velocity range and avoid leading over a long course of fire. It makes for some confusion, though.

If you like loads that normally use Unique, you might want to try Hodgdon Universal Clays. Loads from about 7% below Unique charge weight, depending on the gun, give very similar performance to Unique. The advantages are that it is cleaner burning and meters more accurately in standard powder measures.
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Old January 15, 2009, 01:30 AM   #7
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Quote:
What gives?
It could be that there are many different LSWC bullets some are swaged soft lead and some are hard cast.
As ballard mentioned there are also different configurations with the same weight bullet that can effect load density and pressure.
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Old January 15, 2009, 09:07 AM   #8
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Ended up going with 4.2 grains - OAL of 1.445". This is .5 gr. less than the Alliant website which mentioned the very bullet I am using (Speer).

Really don't like Unique, but came across a bunch of it at a good price so, I'm trying to get used to it for .38 Spl and .45 ACP target/plinking loads. The stuff does not meter well at all in my Lee auto disk measure . . . +/- .2-.3 grains.

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Old January 15, 2009, 10:58 AM   #9
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When facing charge weight discrepancies, err on the side of caution.
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Old January 15, 2009, 11:12 AM   #10
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All the more reason to use reloading manuals as a guide, Start on the low side and work up the load for your bullet and your gun.
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Old April 28, 2009, 03:28 PM   #11
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Alliants previous version of their load data had the same charges as Lee Modern Reloading 2nd edition for a 158 gr lswc but it didn't specify the Speer 158 gr lswc as it now does. I don't know what the difference is between a Speer and other 158 gr bullets, perhaps the seating depth?
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Old April 28, 2009, 03:34 PM   #12
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As luck would have it, I've been doing some reloading in the past 2 weeks using Unique and 158 gr cast bullets. Using the Speer manual, I started with 4.0 grains and that worked OK. Then I went up to 4.2 gr with a slight improvement in accuracy (or was it just me that day?). Last week I tried some with 4.4 gr. Still OK. Tonight I'm going to shoot some with 4.6 gr. That's probably as much as I'm going to try. I'm not trying for maximum power or velocity, that's what the 357 loads are for. I'm just trying to find the best compromise between accuracy, recoil, and leading. So far in my 7.5" barrel Gaucho, it appears to be a tossup between the 4.2 gr and the 4.4.
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Old April 29, 2009, 11:54 AM   #13
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Speer 14th edition reloading manual states 5.2 gr max Unique with 158 gr LSWC for 38+P loading. Since ATK owns Speer and Alliant, I'm using that load as the gospel for the max in .38 special rounds.
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Old April 29, 2009, 06:27 PM   #14
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4.5 gn Unique or 5.3 gn Power Pistol for +p loads.
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Old April 29, 2009, 06:34 PM   #15
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Recently I worked up to 5.5 grains of Unique in .38 Special cases pushing 158 gr. LRN hard cast bullets. It is a pretty stout load, a real +p+. I've got a Speed Six in .38 Special but have been told it's essentially a .357 handgun with a .38 Special cylinder so it can handle very high end loads. So far, this bears out. Considering the recoil, I'm probably going to chop it down to 5.2 grains, which is the max in the Speer manual. I suspect than in the smaller case, the pressure probably is at high .357 mag levels.

In fact, the recoil is similar to Unique pushing a moderate .357 load. Once again, it is stout!

At 4.7 gr of Unique, you are looking at +p loads. I've used Unique at 4.0 to 4.3 and it is mild. With 158 grain bullets, you should not have a problem. I have tried it at 3.8 gr and if you don't crimp it tight enough, you will actually get squibs! But it sure is mild....
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Old April 30, 2009, 12:07 AM   #16
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4.3 of Unique is what I settled on for 158 LSWC's. Good, full powered standard pressure type load. Down to 4 or below was mild, but seemed dirtier and shot below POA through my fixed sight guns. 4.4 on the other hand seems to shoot right to POA in several different revolvers. Think I've given up on Unique for "powder puff" .38 loads and am going to AA#2 for those. Seems to give better results.
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Old May 3, 2009, 10:22 PM   #17
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I have found with 158 LSWCs I have gotten a clean and manageable load with 4.0 gr. The bullets are a local generic make, but this load has been quite accurate and clean, but light enough to fire in my 80 year-old Police Positive. It's convenient too since Unique is my standard 12 ga dove load.
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Old May 4, 2009, 06:45 AM   #18
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The Speer 158g LSWC is swaged.

Handloaders MUST understand that components DIFFER, sometimes radically (like in this example, where one data source is giving data for its swaged bullet, while other sources are providing data for cast bullets, which can also differ significantly).

"Significant" differences........
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Old May 4, 2009, 09:03 AM   #19
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Quote:
Really don't like Unique, but came across a bunch of it at a good price so, I'm trying to get used to it for .38 Spl and .45 ACP target/plinking loads. The stuff does not meter well at all in my Lee auto disk measure . . . +/- .2-.3 grains.
You drop a load that is +.3, and you've entered +P loading

I have used 4.5 of Unique for years, light enough and accurate enough to do the job
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Old May 4, 2009, 07:59 PM   #20
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I've shot literally thousands of 38s with the Lyman 358156 over 5.0 and 5.5 grains of Unique in several 38s. CCI 500 primers and any brand of brass; the newer manuals have lawyerproofed the data. Sized to .358" and cast from wheelweights and 50/50 solder either hollowpoint or solid version will shoot the X-ring out of the 25 yard slowfire target. If you don't want to spend the extra money for the gaschecks, try the 357446 bullet; the same design minus the gascheck groove and drop back to 4.7 grains because the bullet weighs 162 instead of 158.
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Old December 27, 2009, 02:17 PM   #21
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I just got my reloading setup and found the same confusion about powder charge (am using Unique). After extensive searching, this thread has helped a great deal to resolve that. Thank you!

Is anyone familiar with Suter's Choice bullets? Their 158-grain LSWC are what I chose to start off with. I can't seem to find any info on them. I think they are lasercast and was thinking of a 4.2 grain charge to start out with.
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