Defensive ammo in a 1911?

craddleshooter · July 18, 2018, 11:06 AM

When I picked up my 1911 at the LGS I asked about any defensive ammo in .45 and the associate that was helping me advised me to not use defensive ammo in my 1911 because 1911 weren't made to use the flatter hollow point ammo and to only be used with ball ammo.

While I'm sure defensive ammo will cycle successfully, is it recommending due to this ^^?? What brand of defensive ammo are you all using with your 1911s?

Fla_dogman · July 18, 2018, 11:11 AM

I've never had any issues shooting hollow points even hydroshocks in my 1911 but I'd try it before I carried it to make sure they cycled ok

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

Rifletom · July 18, 2018, 11:26 AM

I've used/use Winchester "Bonded .45 Auto PDX1" 230gr JHP Bonded in my SA1911-A1. Works as it should. I THINK Win "Ranger" ammo is the same.

CDW4ME · July 18, 2018, 11:33 AM

My 1911's feed HST, Ranger T, Golden Saber, Barnes Tac-XP, basically every HP I've tried.
I have 1911's in 45 acp, 10mm and 9mm - all of them feed HP - no problem.
If they did not feed HP I would either correct it or get rid of it.

In before anyone post being content with FMJ in a 45 - don't settle for less (lackadaisical) like that.

rwilson452 · July 18, 2018, 11:41 AM

I have 3 .45s Two 1911s and one XD. I use Speer Gold Dot Hollow Points in all of them. Flawless in all.

RickB · July 18, 2018, 01:18 PM

Did you pick up your gun in 1982?

Gun, magazine, and ammo specs have changed considerably since 1911, and especially in the last thirty years.

Unless your gun is some sort of reproduction of, or tribute to an old G.I. pistol, it will handle hollowpoints just fine.

I prefer the modern bullets that essentially mimic the profile of hardball, but I never had any issues with the older generation of truncated cone bullets, either.

All of that said, I've run a magful of JHPs through a 1913 Colt M1911, using the original magazine, and it ran perfectly. Not a large sample size, but I think there's a lot of old wive's tale in modern conventional wisdom.

**Aguila Blanca** · July 18, 2018, 01:29 PM

Some 1911s have problems feeding truncated cone-shaped hollowpoints (such as the old HydraShok). Hollow points with a rounder ogive, such as Golden Saber, typically feed in all 1911s. Buy a box of whatever you would prefer to use, try it out, and if it works, you're good to go. If it doesn't work ... try Golden Saber.

Correction -- Remington doesn't call it "Golden Saber" any more. It's now called "Ultimate Defense." Same ammo, new box with higher price.

mete · July 18, 2018, 02:37 PM

I had problems with a truncated cone .They wanted to go straight forward instead of continuing the arc. That was some years ago. But in any case each gun is happier with certain types of ammo. We have a large selection so that's not a real problem. The shortest barrels have a tendency to prefer lighter bullets.

jr24 · July 18, 2018, 02:48 PM

It can be problematic in some guns and mags but in the dozen or so 1911s I've owned/still own none have had issues running hollowpoints.

I prefer 230 grain HST in my 1911s.

Mike38 · July 18, 2018, 04:55 PM

I guess this gun sales person has never heard of Precision Pistol (Bullseye) shooting? Many Bullseye shooters use lead semi wad cutter bullets in their M1911s. If a 1911 will feed semi wad cutters, it will feed self defense type hollow points. My 1911 has a non ramped standard barrel, and feeds SWC and any hollow points I've tried just fine.

pete2 · July 18, 2018, 05:39 PM

Most current 1911 guns will feed HP ammo but make sure you shoot a couple boxes to prove they work in your gun. I have a Ruger CMD that doesn't feed truncated cone bullets, it does feed XTP HPs tho. My other 1911s seem to feed everything. Different magazines can also make a difference.

DukeConnor · July 18, 2018, 05:47 PM

I use HST's. Spend some money And buy a few boxes of different ammo and see what works. Some of the worst advice i ever recieved came from gun shops.

Sharkbite · July 18, 2018, 06:31 PM

My first duty load for a 1911 was the 200gn JHP made by Speer. This was pre Golddot by a few years. Some of our 1911 ran just fine with this load, some needed some tuning to be 100%.

After we went to the golddot 230gn all of the guns ran fine. My current 1911’s will run any JHP i can find...no problem.

stephen426 · July 18, 2018, 06:37 PM

I know it sounds like an expensive proposition, but you should shoot a box of the defensive ammo you want to carry to check for reliability. If that ammo gives you problems, try something different. Take the information you get from gun store associates with a grain of salt. Not all of them are as knowledgeable as they lead on.

Ingramite · July 18, 2018, 07:02 PM

Is the glass half full or is it half empty?

I guess it matters which side of the bar you are standing on.
Are you drinking whiskey or are you selling whiskey?

So in this instance we ask ourselves....Are you the guy selling a new 1911 to an inexperienced shooter or are you the inexperienced shooter asking the question that wants to shoot a self defense load.

If you are the guy standing behind the gun counter, answering the questions, what is the 100% safe answer? I too would recommend 230gr FMJ because it is the safe bet on problem free operation on most new 1911s.

As the new shooter gains experience with his new 1911 he will ask questions on forums where he can shift through all sorts of brilliant replies, like mine.

YMMV

Model12Win · July 18, 2018, 07:31 PM

The hard ball 230 grain load was known to knock a man down with one well placed hit.

It's all the stopping power you'd ever need and then some. Starts out as big as a 9mm expanded and feeds well in most guns.

Bill DeShivs · July 19, 2018, 02:59 AM

Oh, come on!
The 230 gr. hardball won't knock a man down!
Stop perpetuating myths.

CDW4ME · July 19, 2018, 05:31 AM

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/sel...llistic-tests/

^ There are 30 loads in 9mm that expand .50 or more, some significantly more, and penetrate 12-18''

So, there are 30 examples where 45 FMJ does not start out "as big as a 9mm expanded"
If going to neuter the performance of 45 with FMJ, may a well carry a 9mm with any one of those 30 loads.

P-990 · July 19, 2018, 06:49 AM

What I don't see mentioned is which make and model is your new 1911 OP? That will make a difference in how likely it is to cycle loads other than hardball.

Failing that though, try Remington Golden Saber. I know it isn't the latest and greatest available, but its nose profile seems to mimic hardball fairly closely and I haven't had any feed failures using it. Of course, my magazine/pistol combination feeds semi-wadcutters beautifully too. (Colt Competition Model in 45 ACP, variety pack of McCormick, factory and Wilson magazines.)

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

T. O'Heir · July 19, 2018, 11:24 AM

The associate is confused. Mind you, there's no such thing as "defensive" ammo. Any ammo, cast bullets included, is defensive.
"...to only be used with ball ammo..." That's just mythical nonsense. In the old days, that being about 30 or so years ago, 1911A1 style pistols didn't come out of the factory ready to feed SWC's easily. They do now. It's really just a slight modification to the feed ramp.
"...hard ball 230 grain load was known to knock a man down with one well placed hit..." That's mythical nonsense too. No pistol round will do that. Physics doesn't allow it.

Untidy_Harold · July 19, 2018, 01:06 PM

My '60s era Llama 1911 feeds plated hollow points just fine, as long as I keep the OAL between 1.235 - 1.240".

stephen426 · July 19, 2018, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T. O'Heir

The associate is confused. Mind you, there's no such thing as "defensive" ammo. Any ammo, cast bullets included, is defensive.
"...to only be used with ball ammo..." That's just mythical nonsense. In the old days, that being about 30 or so years ago, 1911A1 style pistols didn't come out of the factory ready to feed SWC's easily. They do now. It's really just a slight modification to the feed ramp.
"...hard ball 230 grain load was known to knock a man down with one well placed hit..." That's mythical nonsense too. No pistol round will do that. Physics doesn't allow it.

What if the ammo is used offensively? LOL

RickB · July 19, 2018, 01:32 PM

That's sort of like the difference between a "carry gun" and a "range gun"; if I never shot my carry gun at the range it would never be shot, so, isn't it a range gun?

stephen426 · July 19, 2018, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickB

That's sort of like the difference between a "carry gun" and a "range gun"; if I never shot my carry gun at the range it would never be shot, so, isn't it a range gun?

If we could all get through life without "having to" shoot our carry guns, that would be a great thing.

A "carry gun" that is used at the range can be a range gun, but most of my guns are too big to carry so we will call them range guns. I guess all guns can be used for home defense, so they could all be home defense guns.

rc · July 19, 2018, 11:48 PM

Winchester makes a white box 230 grain HP load with a fairly rounded nose as does Remington. The 45 relies on mass and bullet size first and expansion second. Most modern 1911s are throated to feed HP ammo. That doesn't mean all HP ammo will feed in every 1911. Got to test a box or two to know.

July 18, 2018, 11:06 AM	#1
craddleshooter Junior member Join Date: March 9, 2018 Location: NY Posts: 90	Defensive ammo in a 1911? When I picked up my 1911 at the LGS I asked about any defensive ammo in .45 and the associate that was helping me advised me to not use defensive ammo in my 1911 because 1911 weren't made to use the flatter hollow point ammo and to only be used with ball ammo. While I'm sure defensive ammo will cycle successfully, is it recommending due to this ^^?? What brand of defensive ammo are you all using with your 1911s?

July 18, 2018, 11:33 AM	#4
CDW4ME Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2009 Posts: 1,321	My 1911's feed HST, Ranger T, Golden Saber, Barnes Tac-XP, basically every HP I've tried. I have 1911's in 45 acp, 10mm and 9mm - all of them feed HP - no problem. If they did not feed HP I would either correct it or get rid of it. In before anyone post being content with FMJ in a 45 - don't settle for less (lackadaisical) like that. __________________ Strive to carry the handgun you would want anywhere, everywhere; forget that good area bullcrap. "Wouldn't want to / Nobody volunteer to" get shot by _____ is not indicative of quickly incapacitating.

July 18, 2018, 11:41 AM	#5
rwilson452 Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2004 Location: Tioga co. PA Posts: 2,647	I have 3 .45s Two 1911s and one XD. I use Speer Gold Dot Hollow Points in all of them. Flawless in all. __________________ USNRET '61-'81

July 18, 2018, 01:18 PM	#6
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,517	Did you pick up your gun in 1982? Gun, magazine, and ammo specs have changed considerably since 1911, and especially in the last thirty years. Unless your gun is some sort of reproduction of, or tribute to an old G.I. pistol, it will handle hollowpoints just fine. I prefer the modern bullets that essentially mimic the profile of hardball, but I never had any issues with the older generation of truncated cone bullets, either. All of that said, I've run a magful of JHPs through a 1913 Colt M1911, using the original magazine, and it ran perfectly. Not a large sample size, but I think there's a lot of old wive's tale in modern conventional wisdom. __________________ Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.

July 18, 2018, 02:37 PM	#8
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	I had problems with a truncated cone .They wanted to go straight forward instead of continuing the arc. That was some years ago. But in any case each gun is happier with certain types of ammo. We have a large selection so that's not a real problem. The shortest barrels have a tendency to prefer lighter bullets. __________________ And Watson , bring your revolver !

July 18, 2018, 11:11 AM	#2
Fla_dogman Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2015 Posts: 265	I've never had any issues shooting hollow points even hydroshocks in my 1911 but I'd try it before I carried it to make sure they cycled ok Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

July 18, 2018, 11:26 AM	#3
Rifletom Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2011 Location: So-Cal Posts: 786	I've used/use Winchester "Bonded .45 Auto PDX1" 230gr JHP Bonded in my SA1911-A1. Works as it should. I THINK Win "Ranger" ammo is the same.

July 18, 2018, 01:29 PM	#7
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,457	Some 1911s have problems feeding truncated cone-shaped hollowpoints (such as the old HydraShok). Hollow points with a rounder ogive, such as Golden Saber, typically feed in all 1911s. Buy a box of whatever you would prefer to use, try it out, and if it works, you're good to go. If it doesn't work ... try Golden Saber. Correction -- Remington doesn't call it "Golden Saber" any more. It's now called "Ultimate Defense." Same ammo, new box with higher price.

July 18, 2018, 02:48 PM	#9
jr24 Senior Member Join Date: August 29, 2011 Posts: 870	It can be problematic in some guns and mags but in the dozen or so 1911s I've owned/still own none have had issues running hollowpoints. I prefer 230 grain HST in my 1911s.

July 18, 2018, 04:55 PM	#10
Mike38 Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2009 Location: North Central Illinois Posts: 2,710	I guess this gun sales person has never heard of Precision Pistol (Bullseye) shooting? Many Bullseye shooters use lead semi wad cutter bullets in their M1911s. If a 1911 will feed semi wad cutters, it will feed self defense type hollow points. My 1911 has a non ramped standard barrel, and feeds SWC and any hollow points I've tried just fine.

July 18, 2018, 05:39 PM	#11
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,566	Most current 1911 guns will feed HP ammo but make sure you shoot a couple boxes to prove they work in your gun. I have a Ruger CMD that doesn't feed truncated cone bullets, it does feed XTP HPs tho. My other 1911s seem to feed everything. Different magazines can also make a difference.

July 18, 2018, 05:47 PM	#12
DukeConnor Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2016 Posts: 224	I use HST's. Spend some money And buy a few boxes of different ammo and see what works. Some of the worst advice i ever recieved came from gun shops.

July 18, 2018, 06:31 PM	#13
Sharkbite Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2013 Location: Western slope of Colorado Posts: 3,679	My first duty load for a 1911 was the 200gn JHP made by Speer. This was pre Golddot by a few years. Some of our 1911 ran just fine with this load, some needed some tuning to be 100%. After we went to the golddot 230gn all of the guns ran fine. My current 1911’s will run any JHP i can find...no problem.

July 18, 2018, 06:37 PM	#14
stephen426 Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2005 Posts: 3,840	I know it sounds like an expensive proposition, but you should shoot a box of the defensive ammo you want to carry to check for reliability. If that ammo gives you problems, try something different. Take the information you get from gun store associates with a grain of salt. Not all of them are as knowledgeable as they lead on. __________________ The ATF should be a convenience store instead of a government agency!

July 18, 2018, 07:02 PM	#15
Ingramite Member Join Date: October 24, 2017 Posts: 54	Is the glass half full or is it half empty? I guess it matters which side of the bar you are standing on. Are you drinking whiskey or are you selling whiskey? So in this instance we ask ourselves....Are you the guy selling a new 1911 to an inexperienced shooter or are you the inexperienced shooter asking the question that wants to shoot a self defense load. If you are the guy standing behind the gun counter, answering the questions, what is the 100% safe answer? I too would recommend 230gr FMJ because it is the safe bet on problem free operation on most new 1911s. As the new shooter gains experience with his new 1911 he will ask questions on forums where he can shift through all sorts of brilliant replies, like mine. YMMV

July 18, 2018, 07:31 PM	#16
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	The hard ball 230 grain load was known to knock a man down with one well placed hit. It's all the stopping power you'd ever need and then some. Starts out as big as a 9mm expanded and feeds well in most guns.

July 19, 2018, 02:59 AM	#17
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,978	Oh, come on! The 230 gr. hardball won't knock a man down! Stop perpetuating myths. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

July 19, 2018, 05:31 AM	#18
CDW4ME Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2009 Posts: 1,321	https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/sel...llistic-tests/ ^ There are 30 loads in 9mm that expand .50 or more, some significantly more, and penetrate 12-18'' So, there are 30 examples where 45 FMJ does not start out "as big as a 9mm expanded" If going to neuter the performance of 45 with FMJ, may a well carry a 9mm with any one of those 30 loads. __________________ Strive to carry the handgun you would want anywhere, everywhere; forget that good area bullcrap. "Wouldn't want to / Nobody volunteer to" get shot by _____ is not indicative of quickly incapacitating.

July 19, 2018, 06:49 AM	#19
P-990 Senior Member Join Date: May 2, 2002 Location: Only1/2WayThere Posts: 1,316	What I don't see mentioned is which make and model is your new 1911 OP? That will make a difference in how likely it is to cycle loads other than hardball. Failing that though, try Remington Golden Saber. I know it isn't the latest and greatest available, but its nose profile seems to mimic hardball fairly closely and I haven't had any feed failures using it. Of course, my magazine/pistol combination feeds semi-wadcutters beautifully too. (Colt Competition Model in 45 ACP, variety pack of McCormick, factory and Wilson magazines.) Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

July 19, 2018, 11:24 AM	#20
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	The associate is confused. Mind you, there's no such thing as "defensive" ammo. Any ammo, cast bullets included, is defensive. "...to only be used with ball ammo..." That's just mythical nonsense. In the old days, that being about 30 or so years ago, 1911A1 style pistols didn't come out of the factory ready to feed SWC's easily. They do now. It's really just a slight modification to the feed ramp. "...hard ball 230 grain load was known to knock a man down with one well placed hit..." That's mythical nonsense too. No pistol round will do that. Physics doesn't allow it. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

July 19, 2018, 01:06 PM	#21
Untidy_Harold Junior Member Join Date: July 18, 2018 Location: Deep in the heart of Texas. Posts: 4	My '60s era Llama 1911 feeds plated hollow points just fine, as long as I keep the OAL between 1.235 - 1.240".

July 19, 2018, 01:32 PM	#23
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,517	That's sort of like the difference between a "carry gun" and a "range gun"; if I never shot my carry gun at the range it would never be shot, so, isn't it a range gun? __________________ Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.

July 19, 2018, 11:48 PM	#25
rc Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2001 Location: CA Posts: 1,759	Winchester makes a white box 230 grain HP load with a fairly rounded nose as does Remington. The 45 relies on mass and bullet size first and expansion second. Most modern 1911s are throated to feed HP ammo. That doesn't mean all HP ammo will feed in every 1911. Got to test a box or two to know.

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