Sig Sauer P365 or Springfield Hellcat?

[jr24]

Originally Posted by stephen426

This is from Springfield Armory’s site:



https://www.springfield-armory.com/h...pact-handguns/

If you grip the pistol firmly, there is actually a lot of grip texture. My concern with an aggressive grip texture is that it can snag against clothing and cause your shirt to ride up, exposing the firearm. It isn’t bad and hasn’t been a major issue, but it does snag slightly against my shirts, which I wear half tucked.

Only ever been a problem for me with sandpaper Talon grips until I filed them down a bit. Very agrresive G10 grips on 1911s and the like have never caught on my shirt that I've noticed.

With the Hellcat specifically I'd have liked a more aggressive part on the front and back staps, but that's just my preference.

[zoo]

Red dot optics can still work when wet if that’s your point. If the front of the optic is occluded then your eyes will combine the two images. If the rear of the optic is occluded there are techniques to either use the housing as a reference or reflexive shooting is an option. I’d add that when I say occluded I mean completely blocked. Even a projected dot that is bursted by water in the projector still works. I’d add your original point was about concealability.

Well yeah, I know red dots can work in wet environments utilizing the right techniques but quite frankly I don't care to complicate the situation any further than it will already be.

As it relates to concealability, obviously the size of the pistol isn't as big a priority for you as it is for me. You seem quite happy carrying a Sig P365XL with the red dot mounted. I'm not.

But that is ok, I'm probably chunkier and older than you as well as being a big old fatty sweaty geezer.

If you want to start debating red dots in adverse conditions maybe we should start a new thread. Then you can ask me what if the optic is hit by flying debris from a hurricane .

Heh, yeah. That is a discussion that should be had. How could anyone ever find themselves in a gun battle in a rain storm or after having been presented with a sweat dripping handgun. Gosh, I'm sure that never happens. Certainly, every shooting I've been involved in was only on a bright, clear, sunny day. (Cough, cough).

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by zoo

Heh, yeah. That is a discussion that should be had. How could anyone ever find themselves in a gun battle in a rain storm or after having been presented with a sweat dripping handgun. Gosh, I'm sure that never happens. Certainly, every shooting I've been involved in was only on a bright, clear, sunny day. (Cough, cough).

I’m sorry that humor is beyond you. You have my sympathies.


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[zoo]

I’m sorry that humor is beyond you. You have my sympathies.

It isn't, I too was pulling your chain a bit. I thought you knew I liked you.

[zoo]

So really, why not have a thread on that? I admittedly use red dots myself in certain contexts. Mostly as it relates to indoor defense scenarios. You sound a lot more informed on the topic than I am, Tunnel Rat. Go for it! I'll be reading.

[mel80]

i liked both so i got both well 3 ( 365 not pictured ) i like putting the 365 slide on the xl frame though , cant go wrong with either one tbh

[stephen426]

@mel80,

The grip ergonomics looks nicer on the Sig. The Hellcat seems a little blocky in comparison, but it fits my hand just fine (minus the pinky finger of course lol). How are the triggers when comparing them side by side? Thanks!

[triplebike]

My son & I got to the range yesterday with his new P365. Ran 250 rds through it. The gun ran flawlessly. The sights were dead on. I was surprised by the soft recoil for its size. It has a very nice trigger, no creep or grittiness, and a very nice clean break. I shot a two inch group at 10 yards without any problem. The eurgos are excellent even with my bigger hands, it fit his hand like a glove. Thrilled with the performance and accuracy. He shot slightly tighter groups than I did. Having 27 year old eyes and reflexes does help LOL. All and all the P365 is one heck of a firearm and easily worth ever penny!

[mel80]

Originally Posted by stephen426

@mel80,

The grip ergonomics looks nicer on the Sig. The Hellcat seems a little blocky in comparison, but it fits my hand just fine (minus the pinky finger of course lol). How are the triggers when comparing them side by side? Thanks!

out of all 3 to me the xl has the best trigger then the hellcat then the std 365 last i really like the 365xls flat trigger

with the hellcat i had issues with the extended mag pinching my hand when firing , so i tried out some hyve mag extensions they are +3/1 depending which mag u put them on, they fit way better then the oem baseplates and give me a good grip with my pinky , anyone with a hellcat should try one out

[jman841]

Originally Posted by triplebike

My son & I got to the range yesterday with his new P365. Ran 250 rds through it. The gun ran flawlessly. The sights were dead on. I was surprised by the soft recoil for its size. It has a very nice trigger, no creep or grittiness, and a very nice clean break. I shot a two inch group at 10 yards without any problem. The eurgos are excellent even with my bigger hands, it fit his hand like a glove. Thrilled with the performance and accuracy. He shot slightly tighter groups than I did. Having 27 year old eyes and reflexes does help LOL. All and all the P365 is one heck of a firearm and easily worth ever penny!

We must have completely different triggers. While the trigger is not bad, it has a TON of creep for me (Sig p365).

I hit a wall, then I have about 2 false walls then a 3rd break which is when the striker drops.

It feels like a Glock trigger when people put 3.5 lb connectors in them and destroy the trigger feel.

At the range, it's not bad because i'm just pulling through until it goes bang, but in dry-firing if I compare it with my other pistols, It has the most creep of any of them by far.

Def shoots really soft considering it's size though, Very pleased with it over all.

[triplebike]

Originally Posted by jman841

We must have completely different triggers. While the trigger is not bad, it has a TON of creep for me (Sig p365).

I hit a wall, then I have about 2 false walls then a 3rd break which is when the striker drops.

It feels like a Glock trigger when people put 3.5 lb connectors in them and destroy the trigger feel.

At the range, it's not bad because i'm just pulling through until it goes bang, but in dry-firing if I compare it with my other pistols, It has the most creep of any of them by far.

Def shoots really soft considering it's size though, Very pleased with it over all.

Sorry to hear that about your trigger. The range I belong to has a P365 rental and when I handled that gun the trigger just blew me away it felt exactly like my sons new p365. In fact I was probably most impressed with the trigger. The surprising soft recoil and the eurgos are right up there as well but the trigger made it so easy to shoot accurately. I have a Walther PPQ which has an outstanding trigger, and the Sig was right there and maybe a little better then my PPQ. There is zero creep and zero grittiness and no false walls. Maybe a trip back to Sig is in order for yours.

[TunnelRat]

Jman and I have talked about this, but mine is in the same boat as his in terms of triggers. It is getting a bit better with time, but it’s a far cry from a PPQ. However, we have another member here that has one and he says the exact same as you. Seems to be a bit of luck of the draw. I’ve swapped the trigger shoes and trigger spring in mine and no difference, so I’m not sure sending mine back would yield that much.


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[jman841]

Originally Posted by triplebike

Sorry to hear that about your trigger. The range I belong to has a P365 rental and when I handled that gun the trigger just blew me away it felt exactly like my sons new p365. In fact I was probably most impressed with the trigger. The surprising soft recoil and the eurgos are right up there as well but the trigger made it so easy to shoot accurately. I have a Walther PPQ which has an outstanding trigger, and the Sig was right there and maybe a little better then my PPQ. There is zero creep and zero grittiness and no false walls. Maybe a trip back to Sig is in order for yours.

I might shoot a message to Sig to see what they say. I would love to have a crisp and clean breaking trigger.

Most youtube reviews of the P365 I have seen have the same trigger as Mine as well.

[triplebike]

Originally Posted by jman841

I might shoot a message to Sig to see what they say. I would love to have a crisp and clean breaking trigger.

Most youtube reviews of the P365 I have seen have the same trigger as Mine as well.

How old is your Sig. Maybe they made some changes in the newer released ones. His does not have a manual safety, although I can't see how that would make a difference.

[jman841]

Originally Posted by triplebike

How old is your Sig. Maybe they made some changes in the newer released ones. His does not have a manual safety, although I can't see how that would make a difference.

Mine is about 2 months old and no, manual safety won't change the trigger. All Sig P365's have the same trigger group, the version without manual safety can add it, and the version with it can remove it easily.

I went with it because I can simply remove it if I want to.

Most videos I've seen of the trigger pull show identical to mine and it seems that Tunnel Rat's is as well.

I have yet to see a video showing a PPQ like break on a P365.

[stephen426]

I have a Sig P320 X-Five and I’m not impressed With the trigger on that either. It is designed as a “competition gun”, but the trigger leaves a lot to be desired. It is not a clean break at all and 6.5 lbs. is too heavy for a competition gun in my opinion. Maybe I’m a trigger snob and am expecting too much from a striker fired gun, but Walther did a pretty darn good job with the PPQ. I know I can’t expect 1911 or HK P7 feel ing triggers, but I expect more from something Sig would slap the X-Five name on. I heard they did improve the trigger on the second version, but that doesn’t help me any.

[jman841]

Originally Posted by stephen426

I have a Sig P320 X-Five and I’m not impressed With the trigger on that either. It is designed as a “competition gun”, but the trigger leaves a lot to be desired. It is not a clean break at all and 6.5 lbs. is too heavy for a competition gun in my opinion. Maybe I’m a trigger snob and am expecting too much from a striker fired gun, but Walther did a pretty darn good job with the PPQ. I know I can’t expect 1911 or HK P7 feel ing triggers, but I expect more from something Sig would slap the X-Five name on. I heard they did improve the trigger on the second version, but that doesn’t help me any.

Yea, the "It's a striker fired gun" is no longer an excuse for a poor trigger. You might not be able to get a tuned 1911 trigger, but there are tons of excellent triggers on striker fired guns now.

The S&W M&P 2.0's, CZ P10c's, Walter PPQ's, Canik TP series, and even the Gen 5 Glocks all have what I would consider excellent triggers for a combat/duty pistol.

4.5-5.5 lb break with a defined wall, predictable break, and a fast, short, and quick reset.

[Catchabullet]

I had previously thought the sig 365... Until apex announced that they will be a trigger for the hellcat. Which means the aftermarket will probably pick up.... Hellcat imo

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[rodfac]

I've had my 365 for two years now....more than 1600 rounds through it...with near 100% reliability. It's my EDC choice 90% of the time. Easy to conceal, superbly accurate (see pic below), ergonomically well suited to my hands (and my wife's as well), it's an easy choice. YMMv, Rod

[ftttu]

Good luck to your son. I just got a P365 XL at a gun show this last weekend. When I tried to load the magazines, I had to check the box again to make sure it didn't come with a mag loader. These two 12 round mags are the most difficult to fill to max capacity - ver stiff springs.

I've only used mag loaders a few times over the years, but I've always gone back to doing it manually. Unless these loosen up after a short while, I will invest in a loader.

[stephen426]

ftttu,

I have pretty strong hands and never used a loader before I get my Springfield Armory Hellcat. Those darn sub-compact mags are stiff! They have loosened up some and can load without the loader now, but they are still pretty stiff.

[kymasabe]

Hellcat.
Next question?

[the duck of death]

Sig P365--w/thumb safety. Makes me

[andyg1960]

I’m thinking I want a Hellcat but there’s no place around that has one to rent so I can try it out. I’m a fairly new shooter and I have a Sig P320 as my home defense weapon but that’s not a great carry gun. I’m not comfortable with the idea of buying something like a compact or mini compact pistol ( or any pistol, I guess) without trying it out. Any suggestions?

[stephen426]

Andy, if you are familiar with Sig already, why not go with the 365? What area are you in? Have you tried calling multiple ranges to see if they have the Hellcat (or365) to rent?