Red Dot, Green Dot, or 700X

[Randyralph]

I'm still looking to develop a new loading for my 9mm pistol and carbine, and looking for suggestions from all you fellow reloaders. For the last couple of weeks I've been working with Clays, but found that even with .2 gr. above max it would still not function my sub 2000, but functioned fine in my Beretta 92, so now I have to move on. The only powder I have on hand for pistol is Red dot, green dot, and 700X, which of these do you think would be best for loading 124 PC bullet? Please keep in mind that I'm looking for something that will function properly in my sub 2000, and soon to have CX4 Storm. I only have 1 pound of each, so I'm looking to keep the load development to a minimum. Thanks for any help you can offer.
Just a side note, in my last quest it was stated that maybe it's the PC bullet that's causing the issue with not enough back pressure due to low friction, maybe something to keep in mind.

[Marco Califo]

Red Dot and Green Dot are Great Powders!
for shotguns.

Really, there are better powders for pistol loads: Power Pistol, Bullseye, are great.

The shotgun powders, those two in particular (and I think 700X is too, I know 800X is), are flake-type discs that do not meter well for pistol charges. You use 16 grains for a typical 12 gauge load, and volumetric bushings are close enough to drop the charges, and precision weighing is not as important as it is in metallic cartridges. You need to measure less than 5.0 grains of those for pistols.

[SHR970]

Of the three you listed I would use Green Dot.

Red Dot and 700X are both very fast powders.

Red Dot gets pressure spikes quickly near top loads. There are loads listed for it in your application but the behavior changes very quickly near the top.

700X is also very fast and the same caveats for Red Dot apply here too.

Green Dot is a bit slower in burn rate and more forgiving.

[Jim Watson]

For a carbine, I think Green Dot is slightly the slowest and likely to give you the best chance of good function.

Red Dot and 700X are too close to Clays to make much difference c

[hartcreek]

Red Dot and Green dot meter fine if you have the right meter. I worked up a load using Green Dot and 115 grain Berrys plated bullets. My Speer #11 shows 5.7-6.4 grains of Green Dit with a 115 grain bullet but whgen I tried to put 5.7 grains in it overflowed the case. 4.2 -4.4 grains of Green Dot is what I settled on.

Red Dot 4.5-4.9 withg a 125 grain jacketed round nose soft point bullet.
700x 4.4-4.8 same bullet

[James K]

The main advantage of 700X and "the Dots" is that as shotgun powders they are almost always available and, because of the greater amount sold, are usually cheaper than pistol powders. But unless you load enough to make savings an issue, I would settle for pistols powders for pistol cartridges.

Jim

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Red Dot and 700X are too close to Clays to make much difference c

Don't know about 700x as much but red dot has much more velocity than clays in a 9mm. If you need oomph Red dot has a bit more on both ends.

Red Dot has been my 9mm powder for about a year now. Loaded more than 4,000 rounds with it since last summer. Low weight charge, Fills the case to near full, Meters well Fast powder, yet plenty stable to get my velocity up (good velocity) and decent accuracy. I believe a medium load will cycle most any 9mm.

Red Dot is not like some fast powders. Not as clean as WST but wipes clean with no fuss. Never gummed up my works. Seems a little sooty but like it is fully burnt. Soot not everywhere either. Just in the barrel and some in chamber after a few hundred. Wet patch and couple strokes and it's clean.

[toadywart]

I have been using green dot for for reloading 9mm for two years. Because of shortages it was the only thing I could find. Alliant no longer recommends it for 9mm. Best information that I can find is that in the 90's it was reformulated and was made less dense. I use 3.9 grains and get 1050 fps out of a glock 19. THE reason I ONLY use 3.9 grains is this were the powder starts to be compressed in the casing! I have been told compressing powder is a bad thing to do. If anyone has experience with this please chime in.

[Jim Watson]

Sounds like Red Dot is better than I expected.
Jeff Cooper liked it for .38 Spl +P+.

I am now loading 700X in 9mm.
Good case fill if you fear the overload and decent velocity.
I only trust it with a vibrator on the measure, I got some bridging and one grain loads in earlier trials.

I once got some Green Dot cheap and used it up in pistol ammo. It shot with no problems but nothing unusual to make me buy more.

[9mmSkeeter]

Red dot is a nice powder. Be conservative in its use though, it can get pretty hot at "standard" loads. I load down quite a bit, I think i do about 3.5 for a 115 gn 9mm bullet. It will last longer this way too.

[Kosh75287]

It's the slowest-burning, and should be the most forgiving, of what you have available.

I know that this last bout of shortages has everyone using what they have vs. what they'd LIKE to have, but DO look into getting a pound of Unique, Herco, or AA#5. These won't burn completely in abbreviated 9x19mm barrels, but should give you close to max velocities. I would expect them to work very well in carbine-length barrels.

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Failed to mention I use red dot behind 124 TC coated bullets. I have loaded over 4,000 rounds with Red Dot so far and 2500 have been the coated. I worked up to 3.8 gr and can't tell them from factory feel. I like factory feel in ammo for the experience of feeling normal recoil, especially in anything that is not designated a permanent range gun only.

[Jim Watson]

Since the OP has these powders ON HAND, it seems like a reasonable project to TRY THEM OUT.

He is not going to burn through much of a pound to test each.

[Kosh75287]

Since the OP has these powders ON HAND, it seems like a reasonable project to TRY THEM OUT.

Hence my SUGGESTION that he TRY OUT the Green Dot he has ON HAND.

<wow!>

[the led farmer]

I got this load info straight from Alliant after I emailed them about using green dot in 9mm: ( if anyone cares to see the whole email PM me). I have had great results with green dot at 4.5grs. Enjoy

9mm Luger

115 gr lead bullet
Red Dot start 3.7 grs max 4.2 grs
Bullseye start 4 grs max 4.5 grs
Green Dot start 4.2 grs max 4.7 grs
Unique start 4.5 max 5 grs
Power Pistol start 5 grs max 5.5 grs

115 gr jacketed bullet
Red Dot start 3.8 grs max 4.3 grs
Bullseye start 4 grs max 4.5 grs
Green Dot start 4.2 grs max 4.7 grs
Unique start 4.5 grs max 5.5 grs
Power Pistol start 5.9 grs max 6.3 grs

124/125 gr lead
Red Dot start 3.6 grs max 4.1 grs
Bullseye start 3.8 grs max 4.3 grs
Green Dot start 3.9 grs max 4.4 grs
Unique start 4 grs max 4.5 grs
Power Pistol start 4.8 grs max 5.3 grs

124/125 gr jacketed
Red Dot start 3.7 grs max 4.2 grs
Bullseye start 3.9 grs max 4.3 grs
Green Dot start 4.1 grs max 4.5 grs
Unique start 4.5 grs max 5 grs
Power Pistol start 5 grs max 5.5 grs

147 gr lead
Bullseye start 2.8 grs max 3.3 grs
Green Dot start 3 grs max 3.4 grs
Unique start 3.2 grs max 3.6 grs
Power Pistol start 4 grs max 4.5 grs

147 gr jacketed
Unique start 4 grs max 4.5 grs
Power Pistol start 4.5 grs max 5 grs

Note: Start with the minimum charge wt. Reload just a few and be sure they will properly cycle the action of your pistol before reloading a quantity.

[Randyralph]

Thanks for all the input. Last night I went through all of my reloading manuals, about 25 of them, dating back to the mid 80's to present. Red dot has been used for many years, so what I did was took all the load data, and went with the average, which lead to a start load of 3 grains, and a max of 4.5.
I'm going to start there and work up by .2 grains and see how it goes. Hoping to start testing this weekend, so I will keep you all updated. Thanks again.

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Thanks for all the input. Last night I went through all of my reloading manuals, about 25 of them, dating back to the mid 80's to present. Red dot has been used for many years, so what I did was took all the load data, and went with the average, which lead to a start load of 3 grains, and a max of 4.5.
I'm going to start there and work up by .2 grains and see how it goes. Hoping to start testing this weekend, so I will keep you all updated. Thanks again.

I can tell you that I never got above 3.9 on my red dot loads with a 124gr TC or 125 SWC coated bullets. It kicks plenty hard. YOu might find 3.7gr even better?! Good luck and let us know how she does.

[9mmSkeeter]

That was awesome. Very helpful to anyone. Thank you for your post!

[balderclev]

I use 2.9 grains of 700X behind 147gr Hornady XTP at 1.1" COL. Makes a nice load.

I would start at 2.5 grains and work up.

[Kosh75287]

RandyRalph, you may want to proceed in 0.1 grain increments as you get within 1.0 gr. of max (3.4 or 3.6gr.). It'll take a little more time, but as you approach max loads, pressures may increase far more rapidly. Smaller increments will make it more likely that you'll spot trouble on the way, rather than arriving in the middle of it.

JMHO

[MarkGlazer]

I've drifted away from Silhouette having switched over to Longshot for my 9mm handguns. I purchased a 9mm carbine late last year. Not wanting to dip into the Longshot supply, I pulled out the remaining pound of Silhouette and loaded it for the carbine. It performs adequately loading at the midpoint. Either of the two powders will work for you.

Good luck. Be safe.

[Average Joe]

randy, come back when you have your results, and let us know how it worked out for you.

[papershotshells]

I would also recommend that you do some testing with Red Dot. I have used it for 20 years, in a variety of cartridges, with acceptable to excellent results. If I were forced to hoard only 1 powder for ALL of my reloading needs, I would have a hard time deciding between Red Dot and Unique. With either of those powders, I can load pretty much everything I shoot, pistol/revolver, shotgun AND rifle (cast bullets). Neither may be the optimal powder for every cartridge, but either can be made to work in most anything, if that's all you have available.

Having said that, I DO tend to hoard 1 powder more than any other (I use a lot of other powders for specific purposes). It is PROMO. PROMO is exactly the same burning rate as Red Dot (ask the manufacturer if you doubt this), but has a different density. Meaning, any load recipe that calls for Red Dot can be loaded with the same WEIGHT of PROMO. You can't use the same powder bushing (such as when loading shotshells) to achieve the same weight of PROMO as Red Dot, but when loaded weight for weight, they are the same and perform just the same. I use PROMO in shothells, handgun loads and for cast bullet loads in rifles with excellent results. The reason I choose PROMO over Red Dot (despite PROMO seeming to burn a little dirtier) is simply price. Locally, when it's available, PROMO sells for around $90-95 per 8lb jug versus $115-125 per 8lb jug for Red Dot. That's a pretty good deal in my book, considering powder prices these days.

PROMO can be hard to find at times, it is mostly marketed to high volume shotgun loaders (such as trap/skeet shooter), and mostly available at shops that cater to shotgun shooters. It is however, in my opinion, worth looking for and stocking up on. I have several jugs on hand (bought when it was as low as $80/8lbs), but I still buy a jug a month when I can find it.

Just my experience and $0.02 worth.

Papershotshells

[Randyralph]

Good day all, here are my results. For information only, use at your own risk.
I started out with 3 grains of Red Dot under a 124 gr. TC lead powder coated bullet with an OAL of 1.060", I then worked up .1 grain to a max of 3.6 grains. My findings showed that 3.2 and 3.3 grains were the most accurate in my berretta, giving me a 2 inch group at 10 yards (that's good for me). All loads functioned both pistol and carbine, but started showing flowing primers after 3.5 grains (CCI primers).
Now I have a new problem in my carbine, the bullets are key holing. Not sure if this new bullet design is worth the effort or not.
Thanks for all your help and comments.