July 14, 2012, 01:32 PM | #1 |
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CFE223 vs Varget
I was at the local reloading store today and found Hodgdon cfe223 powder. I have no experience with it but got a pound anyway. Any pros or cons vs varget? I get real good results from varget but cfe223 is about 3$ cheaper a lb.
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July 14, 2012, 08:41 PM | #2 |
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Do a search on here I know one person did a full range report. I know its supposed to be cleaner
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July 14, 2012, 09:20 PM | #3 |
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Of course the main difference to ME between those two powders is that varget is an "extreme" powder and cfe223 is not.... So if you develop a load during the summer, cfe223 is going to shoot different during the winter while varget is not... Important for hunters, probably no so much for plinkers....
That said no I have not tried CFE223. when I get an AR, or some other high volume rifle i think I most definatly will.... |
July 14, 2012, 09:24 PM | #4 |
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Varget is single based. CFE223 is double based. It will be more temperature sensitive.
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July 14, 2012, 09:47 PM | #5 | |
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Where is the quantifiable and measurable evidence of it? And how much of a factor it really is? This "difference" is not important enough to the US Armed Forces to prevent them from consistently using ball powders in almost all military small rounds: 5.56 (844), 7.62 (846), 50 cal (867), 20mm Vulcan (872). The only exception I can think of is M118 LR Match 175 gr. which uses R15 which is an extruded powder. So, if it is good enough for our boys in Afghanistan, I personally think the "difference" is an old wive's tale, too often accepted at face value. The performance for both is nearly equal, some calibers and bullets favoring each: 168 GR. SIE HPBT Hodgdon CFE 223 .308" 2.800" 46.6 2662 48,200 PSI 49.0 2828 60,400 PSI 168 GR. SIE HPBT Hodgdon Varget .308" 2.800" 42.0 2520 41,200 CUP 46.0C 2731 50,600 CUP
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............ Last edited by Marco Califo; July 14, 2012 at 09:56 PM. |
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July 14, 2012, 09:57 PM | #6 | |
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Not to put down the army (I love and support our troops!), but using the army's standard of marksmanship for deer hunting would result in a LOT of wounded deer..... Last edited by dacaur; July 14, 2012 at 10:13 PM. |
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July 15, 2012, 02:38 PM | #7 |
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On the Grendel forum, there is a lot of talk about CFE 223. I have been developing loads for my 6.5 Grendel using it. Meters well, good velocities, seems to be pretty clean. Will start on some .223 when I get a chance.
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July 15, 2012, 04:37 PM | #8 | |
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BTW, the long distance sniper confirmed kill records are at over 2,500 yards. Do you wound deer at those ranges? "Canadian Corporal Rob Furlong, formerly of the PPCLI (Operation Anaconda, Afghanistan) - achieved a recorded and confirmed sniper kill at 2,430 m (2,657 yd) in 2002 using a .50 caliber (12.7 mm) McMillan TAC-50 rifle. Sgt. Brian Kremer March 2004 2,300 m (2,515 yd) Barrett M82A1 Raufoss NM140 MP (.50 Cal) United States 2nd Ranger Battalion Iraq War [10] Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock February 1967 2,286 m (2,500 yd) M2 Browning machine gun .50 BMG United States United States Marine Corps Vietnam War [2]"
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............ Last edited by Marco Califo; July 15, 2012 at 05:14 PM. |
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July 15, 2012, 07:32 PM | #9 | |
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A load developed at 90 degrees which is then used at 40 degrees is going to show a lot more variance than one developed at 80 then shot at 120....... But that too, is besides the point. Temperature sensativity is rendered moot if you sight in at the temps you will be using the gun at, Plus, the army doesnt tailor loads to guns like we do for normal use. In any case, if you dont believe that temp changes affect POI, then thats your choice, if a silly one. It is NOT, however, an "old wives tale". Its a true fact of life, which hogdons extreme powders take out of the equation, so that I dont have to worry about re sighting my rifle if the temp swings 30 degrees from one day to the next as its apt to do during hunting season... I can develop a load during the summer at 90-100 degrees, check my zero one last time in the fall at 70 degrees, then hunt in temps from 15-60 degrees, and not have to worry about a POI shift anywhere along the way. Before you call something an old wives tale, perhaps you should do some testing on it so you know what you are talking about? |
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July 16, 2012, 10:41 AM | #10 |
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Here is a thread with some CFE223 velocities using standard and magnum primers. I did this test out of curiosity about the effect on velocity of CFE223 with the different primers. I normaly use H335 and mag primers help with the velocity variations. It seems that the mag primers give CFE223 a bit more velocity, but standard and mag primers give decent cosistancy.
I have never loaded varget in my .223, so I cant compare, but if you have some velocity data, compare it to mine. I used a long 24" barrel varmint gun for my test. http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...ghlight=cfe223
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July 21, 2012, 03:06 PM | #11 | ||
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Dacur
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Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Patron Member" And best for last - this thread nails it: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=496092 Dacur, It is a myth propagated by H.. to sell powders. The military didn't buy it. I use my loads over 40 degree swings (70 - 110 degrees F) all the time: no diff in shotshell and rifle. Also, even H... Extreme Price powders have some temp sensitivity, all powders do. The impact of these variations are over rated.
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............ Last edited by Marco Califo; July 21, 2012 at 03:26 PM. |
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July 21, 2012, 03:39 PM | #12 | |
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Before you respond, are you honestly trying to say its a myth that cold weather produces lower velocities? |
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July 21, 2012, 06:03 PM | #13 |
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The "hot to cold" isn't an issue with the powder, it is an issue with the primers ensuring consistent ignition in deep winter conditions. That is the reason for "milspec" primers using a "magnum" primer charge even for standards rounds.
Lots of old wives tales about powder. But the military will continue to use ball powder because it gives the required performance cheaper than extruded, that is the only reason. Jimro
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