live round stuck in crimper

willrussellville · August 1, 2011, 06:53 PM

I have a live round stuck in my crimping/sizing die. This is the 4th die in the Lee die set. I have sent a request for help to Lee. Suggestions? Pics attached. Very concerned about hammering a live 44 mag round..

Crankylove · August 1, 2011, 07:03 PM

If it was me...........I would apply pressure to the press handle untill either the cartridge came out, or it ripped the case head off...........and then I would force the remains back throught the die with a wood dowel/brass rod. But thats just me.

On a sizing die, it is more difficult to get a stuck case out at times, but they way the Lee FCD is set up, you should be able to go straight through from top to bottom and force it out of the die.

243winxb · August 1, 2011, 07:20 PM

Quote:

you should be able to go straight through from top to bottom and force it out of the die.

You can do that with a 44mag that has a rim???

Though it was only rimless stuff?

243winxb · August 1, 2011, 07:28 PM

I would try this also>

Quote:

...........I would apply pressure to the press handle untill either the cartridge came out, or it ripped the case head off.

WANT A LCR 22LR · August 1, 2011, 07:54 PM

The only thing that will make the round go bang is a sharp strike to the primer. I'd be tempted to give the press a bit of a tug ( not much ) if that didn't work, cutting the case in 2 with a saw / compact pipe cutter , draining powder , removing the primer end of the case would render the stuck portion inert. Then it is a case of taping out / drilling.

The real question is how this got stuck.

willrussellville · August 1, 2011, 08:16 PM

I would love to know how it got stuck also, and I did it

It was about the 6th round in a series. Pushed it up felt a little extra slip and stuck! Felt kind of like it went up to far in the crimping sleeve that is inside the die. I am sure Lee would say that is impossible. Waiting to hear from them. This was a brand new set, just got in this afternoon. I had been using my buddies set with absolutely no issues.

Do you think there is no chance of an ignition if I cut the case?

Sport45 · August 1, 2011, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crankylove

I would apply pressure to the press handle untill either the cartridge came out, or it ripped the case head off...........

I agree with this. A case isn't "stuck" until you've pulled the rim off.

Could you have crumpled/torn the case mouth when seating? From the picture it doesn't look like you've made it past the post-sizing ring.

243winxb · August 1, 2011, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Do you think there is no chance of an ignition if I cut the case?

I would NOT use a hack saw. Maybe a compact pipe cutter. Just remember, an unsuppored round will send hot brass flying every where. I would put maximum pressure by trying to pull it out with the ram/shell holder. If rim is ripped off, then scrap the die with live round by placing in enclosed steel burn/fire drum.

Twinsig · August 1, 2011, 08:33 PM

dude be careful

mehavey · August 1, 2011, 08:56 PM

This is the pic of the stuck case...?

It's really stuck that far out ???????

That said, I second the "use the handle" option, though I would hold the handle up to maximize "down" tension on the rim -- then whack the handle a few significant times with a short piece of 2x4 to apply impact forces.

medalguy · August 1, 2011, 08:59 PM

+1 on the 2 x 4 method. That can't possibly set the round off. Failing that, try to grip the base of the round with a good set of vice grips and try to turn it. That may break it free.

Then figure out why it got stock. Obviously it shouldn't. Good case for using a FCD.

243winxb · August 1, 2011, 09:13 PM

The 2 x 4 method could damage the press linkage. Steady pressure is need.

fredneck · August 1, 2011, 09:14 PM

Agree on 2x4 method. If you have some spray lube or a bit of gun oil put a little down inside the die and let it sit there for a bit to seep in, if it will, then try pulling the ram down. If not it's 2x4 time. I can't believe it's so stuck that it won't come out with a little tapping. Stuck cases in a full length size die are another matter, but in a crimp die? Don't think I've ever seen that.

fredneck · August 1, 2011, 09:16 PM

The 2x4 should be FINE...if you don't beat the crap out of it. Just a few taps

willrussellville · August 1, 2011, 09:31 PM

yes, it is stuck that far out. It will go up but not any farther down. It is stuck in the piece inside the die, whatever it is called, the ring that makes the crimp. You can see it inside the ring in the other pic. I am leaving tomorrow for a couple of days, I think I will let Lee respond before I tear something up.

Sport45 · August 1, 2011, 09:41 PM

As a last resort, I'd drill through the bullet with as large a bit as will fit through the top of the die. That should relieve any radial forces and allow you to pull the case out easily. That, or drive the bullet into the case and then the case out of the die with a brass rod if the ram rips the rim off.

I do think it will come out with upward force on the handle.

willrussellville · August 1, 2011, 09:49 PM

I want to drive the bullet down with a wooden dowel/hammer or mybe a punch while exerting upward pressure on the handle, there is just something about banging on the top of a 44 mag round that makes me concerned.

Sport45 · August 1, 2011, 10:07 PM

How hard have you pulled up on the handle? Enough to lift your bench?

Jim243 · August 1, 2011, 10:11 PM

Well, Stan look at the fine mess you got us into this time. (Laurel & Hardy)

First you have the die too far down into the press, second you should have had the die out or all the way up and put a case into the case holder and brought the ram all the way up with the case and then start to screw in the die till it just touched the case and then bring down the crimper till it just gave you the approprate crimp.

But back to your problem. Since the case is still in the case holder and you have not ripped the rim off yet. Here is what to do:

DO NOT TRY TO PUSH THE BULLET OUT FROM THE TOP. All you will do is stick the bullet deeper into the case and die.

With a hammer in hand, bring the press handle up as far as it will go (do not push the case further into the die), start tapping the press handle upward in light short strokes to loosen the case from the die, this will take time since you will be using short strokes, you may want to apply oil from the top on to the case and bullet to help loosen it up. This will not set off the primer since the case holder is hollow.

If everything does not work, remove the die from the press, yes you can unscrew it out, just push the case holder out of the press, then send the die to Lee, be sure to use UPS, the post office does not take too well sending live bullets through the mail.

Jim

oldreloader · August 1, 2011, 10:12 PM

How did you adjust the die to begin with? From the pic I'd guess the press to be a JR model. I'd go with the 2X4 whack to start. If you break the press RCBS will make it good. Bear down on it!

mehavey · August 1, 2011, 10:29 PM

You aren't going to break the press, or damage the linkage, or warp the frame, or scrog the die. The case/brass rim is your weak link and will fail before anything else.

+1 to Jim243's counsel that die appears to be screwed down way too far. But at this point, go ahead and unscrew the die/pulling the stuck cartridge up into the press body until the attached handle bottoms out completely. THAT position gives you max leverage on the linkage to then try extracting the case again.

Good luck (and think 2x4)

Sport45 · August 1, 2011, 10:36 PM

If it is a Lee Factory Crimp die it is supposed to be adjusted to meet the top of the shell holder. Just like the sizing die. Crimp is adjusted with the threaded bit on the top.

The descriptions above are correct for a seating/crimping die. That would be the 3rd die in the Lee 4-die set.

Quote:

DO NOT TRY TO PUSH THE BULLET OUT FROM THE TOP. All you will do is stick the bullet deeper into the case and die.

I don't think he'll really die.

(Sorry, couldn't help myself)

But he certainly could jam things in there worse.

Jim243 · August 1, 2011, 10:53 PM

Quote:

it is supposed to be adjusted to meet the top of the shell holder

Nope, the only one adjusted to be just off the shell holder is the sizing/decaping die. Even with the full length resizing/decaping die you have to be careful not to get it too far down and push the case shoulder out of spec on rifle cases.

Jim

RWNielsen · August 1, 2011, 10:54 PM

Quote:

How hard have you pulled up on the handle? Enough to lift your bench?

I think this is the answer. Show it some love
It'll come out of there

Sport45 · August 1, 2011, 11:27 PM

Quote:

it is supposed to be adjusted to meet the top of the shell holder

Nope, the only one adjusted to be just off the shell holder is the sizing/decaping die. Even with the full length resizing/decaping die you have to be careful not to get it too far down and push the case shoulder out of spec on rifle cases.

I'd normally agree with you, but this appears to be a Lee FCD for a straight-walled pistol cartridge. It has a carbide ring in the bottom that is supposed to post size any earlier mistakes. You can see the floating crimp ring in his second picture.

I don't think it's stuck in the crimp ring, I think it's stuck in the carbide. If he took the die out of the press and tapped it upside down on the workbench the crimp ring might just come out.

August 1, 2011, 07:03 PM	#2
Crankylove Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2008 Location: 8B ID Posts: 1,753	If it was me...........I would apply pressure to the press handle untill either the cartridge came out, or it ripped the case head off...........and then I would force the remains back throught the die with a wood dowel/brass rod. But thats just me. On a sizing die, it is more difficult to get a stuck case out at times, but they way the Lee FCD is set up, you should be able to go straight through from top to bottom and force it out of the die. __________________ The answer to 1984 is 1776

August 1, 2011, 08:16 PM	#6
willrussellville Member Join Date: May 26, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 78	I would love to know how it got stuck also, and I did it It was about the 6th round in a series. Pushed it up felt a little extra slip and stuck! Felt kind of like it went up to far in the crimping sleeve that is inside the die. I am sure Lee would say that is impossible. Waiting to hear from them. This was a brand new set, just got in this afternoon. I had been using my buddies set with absolutely no issues. Do you think there is no chance of an ignition if I cut the case? __________________ Help others reach their dreams and most of your dreams will come true....

August 1, 2011, 08:33 PM	#9
Twinsig Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: East Alabama Posts: 235	dude be careful __________________ I also have Fire Extinguishers, hope I never need those either.

August 1, 2011, 09:31 PM	#15
willrussellville Member Join Date: May 26, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 78	yes, it is stuck that far out. It will go up but not any farther down. It is stuck in the piece inside the die, whatever it is called, the ring that makes the crimp. You can see it inside the ring in the other pic. I am leaving tomorrow for a couple of days, I think I will let Lee respond before I tear something up. __________________ Help others reach their dreams and most of your dreams will come true....

August 1, 2011, 09:41 PM	#16
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	As a last resort, I'd drill through the bullet with as large a bit as will fit through the top of the die. That should relieve any radial forces and allow you to pull the case out easily. That, or drive the bullet into the case and then the case out of the die with a brass rod if the ram rips the rim off. I do think it will come out with upward force on the handle. __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.

August 1, 2011, 07:54 PM	#5
WANT A LCR 22LR Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2010 Posts: 389	The only thing that will make the round go bang is a sharp strike to the primer. I'd be tempted to give the press a bit of a tug ( not much ) if that didn't work, cutting the case in 2 with a saw / compact pipe cutter , draining powder , removing the primer end of the case would render the stuck portion inert. Then it is a case of taping out / drilling. The real question is how this got stuck.

August 1, 2011, 08:56 PM	#10
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,894	This is the pic of the stuck case...? It's really stuck that far out ??????? That said, I second the "use the handle" option, though I would hold the handle up to maximize "down" tension on the rim -- then whack the handle a few significant times with a short piece of 2x4 to apply impact forces.

August 1, 2011, 08:59 PM	#11
medalguy Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2009 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,033	+1 on the 2 x 4 method. That can't possibly set the round off. Failing that, try to grip the base of the round with a good set of vice grips and try to turn it. That may break it free. Then figure out why it got stock. Obviously it shouldn't. Good case for using a FCD.

August 1, 2011, 09:13 PM	#12
243winxb Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2011 Location: USA Posts: 1,730	The 2 x 4 method could damage the press linkage. Steady pressure is need.

August 1, 2011, 09:14 PM	#13
fredneck Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2007 Location: Old Dominion Posts: 136	Agree on 2x4 method. If you have some spray lube or a bit of gun oil put a little down inside the die and let it sit there for a bit to seep in, if it will, then try pulling the ram down. If not it's 2x4 time. I can't believe it's so stuck that it won't come out with a little tapping. Stuck cases in a full length size die are another matter, but in a crimp die? Don't think I've ever seen that.

August 1, 2011, 09:16 PM	#14
fredneck Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2007 Location: Old Dominion Posts: 136	The 2x4 should be FINE...if you don't beat the crap out of it. Just a few taps

August 1, 2011, 09:49 PM	#17
willrussellville Member Join Date: May 26, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 78	I want to drive the bullet down with a wooden dowel/hammer or mybe a punch while exerting upward pressure on the handle, there is just something about banging on the top of a 44 mag round that makes me concerned. __________________ Help others reach their dreams and most of your dreams will come true....

August 1, 2011, 10:07 PM	#18
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	How hard have you pulled up on the handle? Enough to lift your bench? __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.

August 1, 2011, 10:11 PM	#19
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	Well, Stan look at the fine mess you got us into this time. (Laurel & Hardy) First you have the die too far down into the press, second you should have had the die out or all the way up and put a case into the case holder and brought the ram all the way up with the case and then start to screw in the die till it just touched the case and then bring down the crimper till it just gave you the approprate crimp. But back to your problem. Since the case is still in the case holder and you have not ripped the rim off yet. Here is what to do: DO NOT TRY TO PUSH THE BULLET OUT FROM THE TOP. All you will do is stick the bullet deeper into the case and die. With a hammer in hand, bring the press handle up as far as it will go (do not push the case further into the die), start tapping the press handle upward in light short strokes to loosen the case from the die, this will take time since you will be using short strokes, you may want to apply oil from the top on to the case and bullet to help loosen it up. This will not set off the primer since the case holder is hollow. If everything does not work, remove the die from the press, yes you can unscrew it out, just push the case holder out of the press, then send the die to Lee, be sure to use UPS, the post office does not take too well sending live bullets through the mail. Jim __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum

August 1, 2011, 10:12 PM	#20
oldreloader Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2009 Location: Magnolia, Arkansas Posts: 251	How did you adjust the die to begin with? From the pic I'd guess the press to be a JR model. I'd go with the 2X4 whack to start. If you break the press RCBS will make it good. Bear down on it!

August 1, 2011, 10:29 PM	#21
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,894	You aren't going to break the press, or damage the linkage, or warp the frame, or scrog the die. The case/brass rim is your weak link and will fail before anything else. +1 to Jim243's counsel that die appears to be screwed down way too far. But at this point, go ahead and unscrew the die/pulling the stuck cartridge up into the press body until the attached handle bottoms out completely. THAT position gives you max leverage on the linkage to then try extracting the case again. Good luck (and think 2x4)