oh the myths that surround hunting.

[tahunua001]

yes that's right, I'm resurrecting my own thread.

just read another one the other day.
if you don't wear hunter's orange you are unethical and it's your own fault if you get shot because you weren't wearing orange.

[TimSr]

You are in Idaho. What is it, like over half the state is open to public hunting? How many big game season do you have, and spread over what period of time? What is your hunter density at a given time?

If you ever hunted thick eastern woodlands with only a deer season that lasted one week, with only pockets of 200-2000 acres open to public hunting, and hunting densities sometimes of 1 hunter per 10 acres, you might rethink your views on hunter orange. Yes, I've hunted in the rockies, sometimes covering miles without seeing any sign of humans, and orange might not be a major concern, but if you go out an hunt Ohio's deer season without orange, you would be illegal, unethical, inconsiderate, and lose you right to complain of slugs wizzing by from hunters who cannot see you.

[tahunua001]

yes, large amounts of land is open to hunting, however the vast majority of it is inaccessible to anyone that doesn't have pack horses. much of what was once public land is now being bought up by the tribe, leaving less and less available to whites. I saw over 3 dozen hunters occupying the same 4 square mile hunting ground I was hunting on opening weekend. we have two separate any weapons seasons in my hunting area, regular(whitetail or mule deer) which lasts about a month and whitetail only which lasts closer to two, however our muzzle loader season is restricted to very isolated areas and lasts a single weekend. elk seasons are about 2 weeks each for any given hunt and yes, people are packed very tightly in their attempts to get one before the other yahoos scare them off. our terrain is extremely varied, from open bluffs like the ones pictured in the OP, to thick pine forests, to brushy draws, to open farm fields in rolling hills. oh and we have deserts in the lower portion of the state too, but not where I hunt.


I do not see how shorter seasons and more hunters per capita makes it my fault if someone else shoots me and why I'm unethical for not wearing orange while hunting. it's your responsibility to check your target, not to blast at any movement you see that isn't wearing orange.

[NHSHOOTER]

Even though I am from and hunt in NH I have to agree with tahunua001 It is the responsibility of each and every hunter to make sure of his target and whats behind it before he squeezes off a shot. Here in NH, the "LIVE FREE OR DIE" state, we are not required to wear hunter orange, it is just suggested.

[TimSr]

Positively identify your target is a given. Knowing what is beyond that is fixed is also a given. When people are moving around all day its another matter. The orange is so other hunters can see that you have moved into that area known as "beyond their target". If I am in my hunting spot, and my orange is easily visible, and I'm watching a trail, and you decide to sneak in behind the trail I've been watching for a couple hours in your camo, who is more at fault that I don't know that you are now "beyond my target"? When you hunt public, do you go out and check that nobody else has moved in behind your target before you take your shot? Anybody who has hunted public has had hunters walk through the area we are hunting at one time or another, and probably often. It is common (or not so common) courtesy, and ought to be common sense to be as visible as possible when moving through an area others are hunting.

[Gunplummer]

How many times have you sat in open hardwoods when two guys walk through below you and you constantly lose sight of one or both of them? At least you know they are there when they are wearing orange. The people I usually catch without orange on when it is REQUIRED are "Up to something". Why would someone not want to be seen while hunting?

[the357plan]

I don't think wearing orange has anything to do with ethics (following the law might). It is the responsibility of the person taking the shot to insure a proper target and background.

However, there are idiots out there and I'm not a psychic. Therefore, I'll wear blaze orange and do my best to help them not shoot me. After I'm dead is not the time to argue about responsibility.

Sometimes in the excitement of things, we see what we want to see (don't have to be an idiot). So if I'm on public land during deer season, I'm wearing blaze orange, hunting or not, required or not.

[globemaster3]

Agreed that it's the hunter's responsibility to be sure of his/her target and what is beyond.

However, most shots on game with a centerfire weapon result in pass throughs, meaning that the bullet is continuing on. We all know that a centerfire bullet will travel a long ways before coming to rest. If hunting out of a tree stand, depending on the angle of the shot, this is mitigated with the bullet burying itself into the ground on the opposite side of the animal. If hunting out of a ground blind, or while slip hunting, that bullet probably does not have much of a backstop.

Surely a hunter can be expected to see someone between themselves and the target, and perhaps for a bit beyond. How far beyond is open to conjecture, based at least on the person's visual acuity, maximum magnification of their binoculars (because none of us scan through scopes, right?), openness of the terrain, time of year, etc. Is it realistic to believe that a hunter is going to see someone on the ground at 500 yards, in camouflage, when their target is at 100 yards? Can that bullet travel the extra 400 yards beyond the target animal after passing through? Is a hunter out there beyond the target still at risk?

And back to the OP, another myth is that deer can see blaze orange! I've lost count of the hogs and deer I've shot wearing a blaze vest, hat, parka, and mostly a combination thereof...

[hartcreek]

Deer can not see blaze orange if you wash it with the correct soap, If you use common laundry soap that has whitners deer can not se the orange BUT they can see a flash of reflected light.

[Gunplummer]

UV is a bunch of crap dreamed up to make money on special soap. A deer that has been around a while can pick out orange (Or whatever they see it as) on an overcast, dark day. It is now accepted that deer do recognize some colors, but it is not known what they see. Sit in front of a dark pine tree with orange on and watch the reaction on older deer. What the heck, wash it in UV soap twice before trying it. I have noticed this for years, but deer do seem totally blind to orange in snow. I think for close up, my biggest problem is the photo ray glasses I wear. I have been caught a few times by that. I never really thought about it until I was leaning against a tree one day when it was snowing. I was pretty well covered in snow and a spike walked up and just stared at my face. He just kept coming closer and closer with a curiosity attitude. When the glasses darken, the eyes are not visible and he could not figure out what they were. I have had squirrels check them out too. Talk about hunting myths, the PA game Commission deer biologists did a lot of studying and recently declared the "Moonphase" charts a bunch of nonsense. Just another money scheme in my opinion.

[hartcreek]

I have been setting out salt and protein blocks at the cabin for more then twenty years. My game cam photos confirm the validity of moon phases for deer and elk.

Disections of deer eyes was done more then twenty years ago. They can not see orange.

[dahermit]

Deer cannot see orange. However, they can see areas of brightness that contrast with dark. When hunting one time in the dusk, I could not see color any longer, but saw something light coming down the road, bobbing up and down. It turned out to be my brother's blaze orange hat. The next time you are sitting in your stand waiting for day light, hold your hand out in front of you and notice how much easier it is to see than the other objects in the woods. Reflected light is what the deer see, whether it be your face, hands or your blaze orange.

[stagpanther]

Trouble troll!! : )

There are morons out there who will shoot at anything. I think if you don't want to wear orange that's fine--your choice. In fact, I think you should have the right to wear a deer suit if you want. LOL

PS--I once visited a big deer processor at the peak of the season and took a look at all the carcasses piled up--it was a real eye-opener to see where the shots were impacting, not a whole lot of classic boiler room shots.

[the357plan]

Some friends and I once encountered a hiker headed out onto public land in deer season wearing a brown jacket. I don't think she was aware it was deer season. And, I can't recall her purpose or what was said to her. The only thing rolling through my mind over and over was "what a stupid thing to be doing."

[Double Naught Spy]

I think y'all are confusing some issues. Deer do not see the color of orange, but instead likely see it as a shade of gray. So they do see it, but see it differently than we do. They do, in fact, see into the red portion of the spectrum, but not as well. Their vision is skewed to the UV end.
http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/big...-what-deer-see

As red is beyond the yellow portion of the spectrum and orange is between red and yellow, deer do see orange.

Also, deer are keen on seeing movement, even blaze orange movement.

The next time you are sitting in your stand waiting for day light, hold your hand out in front of you and notice how much easier it is to see than the other objects in the woods. Reflected light is what the deer see, whether it be your face, hands or your blaze orange.

Unless looking at a light source, reflected light is what any of us see, that, and the absence of reflected light, just like deer, but they see it better in terms of being more adapted for the dark.

SOLUNAR Tables for terrestrial fauna? There's a bit of witchraft. I have done a good bit of my own testing with Solunar tables and not been able to see where they are predictive of anything for terrestrial game, either deer or hogs. Most of my hog kills would certainly be outside of peak hours according to the tables. I don't think the hogs read the tables.

I am still waiting for the study that both can substantiate that solunar tables (as were developed for fish by Knight in the 20s, published in the 30s) both work for terrestrial fauna and explain why they work, but I have yet to see such a study. All I manage to find are anecdotal stories (like my own, which is contrary) and then hunting writers talking about them.

The same goes for moon phases, approaching storms, passing storms, lucky underwear, and solar flares.

[the357plan]

Myths: I was fishing with my brothers along a small creek (East Tenn, 70s') with hogs rooting in the woods about 30 yards on the other side, when one of my brothers piped up and said we were safe. He had heard hogs can't swim.

The internet has since disproved that one.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

There is a slight technical glitch in the discussion. It is incorrect to say that a deer sees 'orange'. Orange is a perceptual effect based on the three cones and color - opponent system of old world primates like us.

One might say that a chimp sees orange as behaviorally and anatomically their visual system is very close to ours. Cell responses that predict behavior in people are found in the old world primates.

It is best to talk about distinguishing wavelengths. One might say a wavelength distribution that appears orange to a human with normal color vision. Whether it appears orange to a deer is an unknown.

Deer, as DNS linked to, have dichromatic vision. If one argues from human perception - they see one part of their visible spectrum has have one hue, then a neutral point and then another hue. For humans, the pairings are red vs green and blue vs. yellow. Most color blind humans see the world as blue vs. yellow. We know that this is the perception from folks who have one normal eye and one color blind eye. Color blind doesn't mean you don't see colors but it is not normal and it comes in various types from no color at all (only gray), to just two colors (usually blue vs yellow) to the regular set of colors but with different transitions and reduce wavelength differentiation.

Here's a nice graph of why blaze orange isn't picked up by deer that well. Thus, it blends in to the surroundings but is visible to humans. We have a receptor set in that range that the deer do not have.

http://www.hunter.ru/hunting/article..._see_and_smell

[globemaster3]

Yeah, I see that I should have been a bit more descriptive to convey the thought going through my mind. In the interest of being short, I gave a sub-par description of deer's perception of orange.

I did not mean to imply that orange is some invisibility cloak (if only that were the case!), but just like has been mentioned, that deer's perception of orange is different from ours and it blends in with the surroundings based upon the biology of their eye.

In terms of solid vs patterns, that is 1 area that can be a challenge the closer one is to the animal. Having something to break up your outline wearing solid orange is important. Probably less so if just wearing a vest, but more so if wearing a parka, while in a color-diverse environment. I had not heard about orange's increased effect on a snow background. That is interesting.

As for movement, movement will get you busted regardless of what you are wearing! Wearing full camouflage during archery season, as well as during gun season on private land, I can vouch first hand the effects of movement if within the deer's field of view. Got some real corkers about getting busted.

[kraigwy]

Deer will usually not socialize with horses, not a myth.

I ain't buying this one. Almost every day I see deer eating my hay with my horses, and drinking out of the same water tank at the same time.

I do believe deer carry calendars. During hunting season the big bucks go to town, after hunting season they are in my back yard eating my hay.

After studying deer for 50 years I've decided to buy a golf course. Always see tons of deer on golf courses.

[BumbleBug]

Here are a few things I have heard.

1. A wounded or surprised javelina will often charge a hunter.
2. If you don't want the deer to smell you in your stand, cut an onion in half & rub it all around.
3. Never urinate near your stand/hunting spot. You will scare all the deer away.
4. A deer can turn around so fast that the bullet can come back at the hunter.

I've had javelina run right at me & almost between my legs when startled, but I believe it was just their poor eye sight. But it is unnerving!
I've never tried the onion trick, but my Uncle Stinky swears by it!
As for taking a leak, your guess is as good as mine.
As for a bullet coming back at the hunter....LOL

....bug

[Hawg]

Y'all can argue it as much as you like. I don't much like having to wear orange because when I was growing up we didn't have to. Fact is I cant tell any difference whether I wear it or not and I think I have killed more deer with a cigarette in my hand when I made the shot than when I didn't have one.

[Double Naught Spy]

Yeah, I see that I should have been a bit more descriptive to convey the thought going through my mind.

LOL, I had sort of thought the discussion was going in the direction of not only can deer not see orange, but "hogs/deer/coyote/wolf/bear can't see you if you aren't moving. They only see movement."

I have heard numerous hunters claim animals to have poor eye sight or limited capabilities because the animal appeared to look right at the hunter and then did not flee. So the hunters assumed they were invisible to the animals.

Many animals respond most to movement, but often still notice and even watch potential threats while going about their normal routines without running off. If they ran every time they saw something bothersome, they would not get to go about their normal business as much as they need to, so they assess the intent of other animals based on movement. Stationary animals generally don't pose an immediate threat. So the other animal isn't doing anything threatening/disturbing, then they often do not respond to it.

As for taking a leak, your guess is as good as mine.

It isn't like I can get out of the stand and hike to a safe area to pee every time. In fact, I think that would be very disruptive if I did. I just pee from the stand. I can't tell that it negatively impacts deer activity at all.

I have from several hunters that deer will often stop and smell where the hunters have peed, and then continued about their business.

[stagpanther]

I personally have seen a horse with antlers. : )

[Glenn E. Meyer]

A wounded or surprised javelina will often charge a hunter.

A friend of mine was charged by a TX hog. He was surprised and it was so close he poked it in the nose with his shotgun in a reflex. The hog then ran away.

[Blindstitch]

As for taking a leak, your guess is as good as mine.

It isn't like I can get out of the stand and hike to a safe area to pee every time. In fact, I think that would be very disruptive if I did. I just pee from the stand. I can't tell that it negatively impacts deer activity at all.

That's what bottles are for if needed.

As a personal rule I don't pee anywhere near where I deer hunt. Once hunting over bait I saw a few guys come in and use my bait pile as a restroom. They quickly changed their mind when I came out of the blind. The DNR had fun with them later when they removed 2 drunks and two 30 packs of beer from their blind.