Feral cat hunting

[Lawyer Daggit]

The issue of when a cat is a feral cat is a tough question, as many of these critters lead dual lives.

I always ask a property owner about pets as I do not want to be responsible for killing someones pet and I think most responsible shooters feel the same way.

I have been told by a farmer of problems with not so wild- wild dogs getting in amongst his sheep and once caught one in the act. His owner was devastated when he heard his dog had been shot dead as I did the right thing and rang the owner after I found a collar on a dog that I shot one night chasing sheep, but when he threatened to sue he soon shut up when the property owner instructed me to write to him with a claim related to dead sheep.

If you live in a country area it is your responsibility to keep your pets under control.

[10-96]

Art,
I'd like to ask a question of you. We're both from Texas, certainly both from south of the Mason Dixon, it's fair to assume we would both have an accent that might be obvious to others, I'm guessing we both have aversions to big cities, neither one would hesitate to shoot a feral cat or anything else if it was a viable and safe target, either one of us might be caught drinking sweet tea (iced tea, or maybe a beer in a pinch), and I don't know about you- but If I was in a pinch, I wouldn't be above living in a doublewide if it meant keeping the family out of the elements... right? Are those the things that would cause The Tourist to classify us as Bubbas? It really wouldn't bother me to see him tone down his arrogance and generalizations, how about you?

Anybody else?

[The Tourist]

Originally Posted by Lawyer Daggit

If you live in a country area

You mention a valid point, these matters take place in the country. In essence, we are to believe that this is a rural matter that urban people don't quite understand. I guess it all depends whose ox is being gored.

There were many rites of passage I lived through that rural folks would have pointed out were against the law. Well, so is violating.

Another item I might also point out, it's always funny blowing the head off some animal--until it's yours. Lawyer Daggit has just mentioned a domestic dog.

We all know what probably happened. Some beloved dog got out one night and went for a run. It started to chase cattle or sheep or horses and the farmer or cattleman heard the commotion and grabbed a rifle. In responding, he "saw" a wolf or a wild dog chasing live stock--got mad--and blew the dog's head off.

Many of you told stories of encountering wild or roaming animals and pets and smirked about what caliber they used during this manly art.

Granted, a valuable dog should have been watched. To boot, a wandering dog will do something innocent, like give chase. And it's all one big hoot until the hollowpoint goes splat.

Like I say, it all depends on one's point of view.

Well, I'm a reloader. I have light .401 caliber hollowpoint bullets, buckets of 10mm Auto brass and pounds and pounds of modern powder that should get any projectile over 1,500 FPS.

Without any research at all I could go down into the gunroom and load a round that will take any canine's head right off at the shoulders.

I'll heat up a big ol' bowl of buttered popcorn and start whacking any mutt that even touches the boundaries of my land, all death, all of the time.

*smack* ooh woo, look at him roll...!

Hey, it's just one of those "city ideas" you guys don't understand.

[tyrajam]

This is a very important topic that a lot of people here have weighed in on. I have learned a few things on this thread, and hopefully maybe even shared something worthwhile on this issue.
What I don't care for is some poster's egotistical attempt get on a soapbox and preach about how "Bubbas" are ruining our nation. First, its off topic and it's annoying to have a worthwhile thread hijacked. But even worse is this elitist attitude that everyone who wears flannel isn't worth the bullet it takes to put them down with, that 'townies' and ''bubbas'' (whatever those are) are ruining YOUR sport, and that the whole world wants to go to Wisconsin and ruin your woods. Yes, I would love to hunt whitetails in Buffalo County, but every state has out of staters who come in to hunt. If you ever lived out West, you might realize that you don't actually have that many out of staters compared to what we have to deal with, and unfortunately you live in an average hunting state. This was a great thread, but sometimes arrogant people get online to try to distinguish themselves from the masses. The truth is, when I hear someone railing against trailer trash, inbreds, and bubbas, the first thing that I think of is, as Shakespeare said, "Me thinks he doth protest to much".

[tyrajam]

Wait Tourist-you really believe that ""a wandering dog will do something innocent, like give chase. And it's all one big hoot until the hollowpoint goes splat.""? Sorry buddy, I grew up bordered on 3 sides by sheep farms, and I can tell you that a dog chasing livestock is not innocent. Your beloved fido's can and do kill more sheep than coyotes, and that is why it is legal to shoot a dog chasing livestock. And when you imagine ""the farmer or cattleman heard the commotion and... "saw" a wolf or a wild dog chasing live stock--got mad--and blew the dog's head off"" what someone who wasn't a "townie" would know is that a farmer saw someone's animal destroying his livelihood and protected his property.

[The Tourist]

Originally Posted by tyrajam

go to Wisconsin and ruin your woods.

You finally got it. I as mentioned, I used "irony."

For years I have been told that us "city boys" don't understand the the problems of hunting, violating, farm parity and now feral cats. We are led to believe that if we would just go away and let the "real sportsmen" run the show we'd all be better off. Like the woods belonged to them.

Well, I'm a Wisconsin resident, born and raised. And the deer, hunting rights, use of public land and the ballot box belong to me as well as any bubba watching Oprah.

Get it? Irony.

Whether you like it or not, when people start takin' granddad's shootin' iron down offin' the mantel and whackin' up some cats, people are going to start voting. Wisconsin is one of only two states which never got CCW licensing. We have a liberal governor. Our state capital is smack dab in the middle of a liberal university.

Our voters have already vetoed dove hunting and crow hunting.

It's real easy to sit in another state decide how my citizens are to conduct their lives. You have CCW rights. No matter what happens to feral cats here, your individual hunting statutes are pretty much unchanged.

Irony.

[tyrajam]

Yes, I understand irony, it's one of the literary terms I teach my 9th grade English classes every year. And while I appreciate your attempt to use irony, you should probably spend a little more time studying literary terms, and logic, before you try to use either one yourself. The adults on this site are trying to have a conversation about the role of non-native animals, specifically feral cats, on an ecosystem. I'm not really interested in what you do up in Wisconsin, and I certainly have no interest in "deciding how my citizens are to conduct their lives". The thread is "feral cat hunting'', and it is an issue in all of our states. The world is bigger than your backyard pal.

[The Tourist]

Originally Posted by tyrajam

The world is bigger than your backyard pal.

Fair enough. You may do as you like in your home state. However, I've heard all of the same arguments over the hunting of other species and it all tends to sound like white noise after a while.

In northern Wisconsin they actually teach young boys the proper ways to violate deer because "a man has to feed his family." And yet you could go down to The Green Giant pea vinery and watch the harvest and see virtually no unemployeed Wisconsin boys.

There is an ugly culture here that just likes to yank a trigger.

A forum, and a ballot box, is the place for a debate. We have enough to shoot at here in Wisconsin. We need to make a few more friends in government to guaranty the rights and privileges of sportsmen.

These "environmentalists" are the same boys who squawked about our "earn a buck" program when the state tried to control CWD and herd numbers. Instead of being part of the solution, these "hunters" slaughtered any doe within sight, kicked it off their tailgate and demanded, "Gimmee my tag."

I've never seen such a hated program as earn-a-buck.

So now the "concerned sportsmen" are fearful of a cat population. Excuse me while I roll my eyes.

We also have a problem here with shoreline erosion. Yet, you seldom see a guy in a blaze orange coat building (actually working) a breakwater wall. Ever monitor the Indian spearing fiasco of a few years back and hear fishermen complain about harvesting "their fish."

A guy who won't work always has a day planned for violating. And it's always the same guys. Now, for the last four months I've been working around real hunters preparing for deer season--and this has taken place in a sporting goods store selling all of its inventory.

Not one, not a single one, of these real hunters has even mentioned cats.

Time and time again these are the same guys who shoot at the DNR's cement deer.

[JohnKSa]

So now the "concerned sportsmen" are fearful of a cat population. Excuse me while I roll my eyes.

The fact that you are either uninformed about or choose to trivialize the problems posed by feral cats does not change the situation.

The fact that this is an emotional issue for the uninformed does not change the situation.

The fact that some unethical people shoot feral cats does not change the problems caused by feral cats, particularly the damage they do to the environment.

The fact that you have a problem with poachers (as does any true hunter) doesn't give you the right to imply that EVERYONE who shoots problem animals is part of an "ugly culture...that just likes to yank a trigger" or that EVERYONE who shoots problem animals is motivated by "all death, all of the time. *smack* ooh woo, look at him roll...!"

The fact that unethical people harm the environment, violate game laws and hurt the cause of hunters does NOT mean that problem animals (including feral cats) are any less of a concern to informed people.

We need to make a few more friends in government to guaranty the rights and privileges of sportsmen.

Wrong. We need to INFORM the people. The people in government are not going to be our "friends" unless there are enough informed voters to make them pay attention.

Frankly, equating poachers with people who take a responsible attitude toward feral animals is exactly the OPPOSITE of what needs to happen.

[The Tourist]

Originally Posted by JohnKSa

The fact that you are either uninformed about or choose to trivialize the problems posed by feral cats does not change the situation.

John, I'm sure you are sincere. It sounds to me like you want to do the right thing. However, it's strange how the "right thing" always seems to boil down to the "same old thing" in this area. Follow me on this.

For example, it always seems that there is an evironmental problem here that can easily be resolved by killing. This week it's cats. Last year it was doves. The year before that it was crows.

However when culling was really needed, these same "hunters" screamed bloody murder. They were asked to cull does. It was a very real problem.

Well, yikes, what kind of a trophy can you hang on the wall with that program? It was universally hated.

It's always the same game. Now I hear that wolves have had enough of a chance to propagate here in Wisconsin. They want to shoot those, too.

If there ever was an animal that was too prevalant in Wisconsin it is dairy cows. We have so many and we produce so much milk the farmers claim they cannot get parity. So several years ago they offered a buy out program. A farmer had to sell his herd and agree to stay out of the dairy business for five years.

That program was accused of "hurting small farmers." Had they turned the cows loose to be shot it would have been the greatest program we ever created.

Same with fish. If an Indian speared them it wrecked the ecology. Why was it bad for the ecology? Because the fish population could not be sustained for fishing. Huh?

So I repeat the observation. If a guy can shoot something, it's a good program. If it eliminates shooting, changes shooting requirements, provides other alternatives or simply restricts the number of antlers available, it's a bad program.

During this debate, we mentioned neutering as a viable program. Where was bubba years ago when folks like Bob Barker warned us about this? Did you see guys in blaze orange rallying around that program? Of course not, no guns. No thrill killing.

If you had a magic wand that could solve the Wisconsin feral cat issue, and it could be done without firing a shot, you would be cruxified as a communist, tree-hugging hippie.

However, if guys could plink cats, whether it did anything of value or not, it would be welcomed as the greatest program Wisconsin ever christened.

Trust me, these same guys would kill every hodag in Rhinelander if they could get a license and a decent bag count.

[JohnKSa]

For example, it always seems that there is an evironmental problem here that can easily be resolved by killing.

The fact that there have been some dubious "solutions" to environmental problems proposed in your area in the past that involved killing does not change the facts about feral cats and the best way to deal with them.

The fact that some unethical people support the hunting of feral cats for the wrong reasons does not change the facts about feral cats and the best way to deal with them nor does it mean that all people who realize how to best deal with feral cats are unethical.

I have no doubt that you are sincere, but you're painting with a very broad brush and sweeping strokes.

If you had a magic wand that could solve the Wisconsin feral cat issue, and it could be done without firing a shot, you would be cruxified as a communist, tree-hugging hippie.

You're working WAY too hard to keep this as emotional as possible. That is not helping anything. It's already an emotional issue--the solution is to INFORM so that people can be objective rather than emotional. Bandying about speculations and hyperbole is just adding to the problem.

[The Tourist]

Then we politely agree to disagree.

The Madison area is always smoldering with some social outrage that requires the immediate use of socialist controls or more bullets. I'm weary of all of it.

True, responsible change will come--like it always does. Some reasonable, thinking people will formulate a logical plan, and it will work. Then the tide will flow out, and another crisis will befall us, requiring even more protest marches and bullets.

If you were to drive from my community, onto Hwy 151 as it becomes East Washington Avenue, turn down into either the Johnson Street area or go 'round the square, you'd cross both our state government area and a big part of campus. Before you'd empty out onto University Avenue on your way to Middleton, you find a protest march about something.

Each day. Every day. Into the night. And I've lived here since 1968.

There is a never ending supply of bullets, crises, protestors, wars, repairs to East Wash Avenue, hostile socialists, swaggering townies, crows, tuition increases, ice, a second protest march, and now cats.

John, I'm not a bad guy for a wizzened old distrustful biker, but take my advice. Keep an eye on our local paper, The Wisconsin State Journal. Within a couple of weeks, the sky will be falling once again in Mad Town.

A townie will be demanding to shoot an animal most people have never heard of, and a communist hippie will be arrested in a protest march trying to stop it.

Trust me. Good night, John.

[Lawyer Daggit]

In respect to the 'valid point' I raised as commented upon by the Tourist. The 'wild' dog was shot by me- I was not an angry farmer, but rather an experienced hunter who happened upon an attack by a pack of dogs that I assumed to be wild 'dingo' / cross bred dogs- rarely do you see a pure yellow dingo these days.

In poor light at 100 metres when targeting dogs savaging sheep you don't get to check their collars to see if they are wearing tags. I love dogs, and I understand the sensitivity of the owner, but if I had not taken the shot I did a lot more sheep would have died (on that and ensuing nights).

[hogdogs]

Tourist, There will always be a few rotten apples... I am a poacher! I have no concern for game laws when I seek FOOD! However i am not trying to load an 18 wheeler with trophy racks and capes destined for some hidden taxidermy studio in mexico.
I buy Hunting and fishing Licenses for the times I desire to "hunt" or "fish" but if I need meat I will go "pop a doe" and I shall eat...
You mentioned dogs... I also think you averted to the notion you live in town. I have several bulldogs bred from working stock to catch the wild hogs my bay dogs get bayed up... In Florida you would RIGHTFULLY owe me the money to replace them if you shoot them and I get to set the value! I consider each dog to be worth $5,000+ just a few of them and you will need to move into a trailer so I can rent out my new house... I do not NORMALLY have them loose but on occasion they have escaped. I immediately went searching... I pity the poor soul holding a gun near the bleeding body of one of my huntin' dogs in their yard and if it were a pet and my wife knows of this CRIME she will cut wide and deep and lose no sleep.
I think I nearly fall into the LOOSELY used term of a "bubba" but my collection of flannels is small due to high prices at walmart!
I have been to Madison to do 2 electrical jobs... ever eat at the "Denny's" by the interstate? I wired the remodel... That town is one of the worst I seen! Talk about liberal majority...
Anywho. They don't sell beer after midnight I think to "Protect" the college student? If'n he was a smart student he woulda done bought plenty. I worked my tail off from 4am till 1am and I wanted a damn micro brew beer at the motel! BUT NOOOOO.... we might have a student drunk if we let you buy beer 'til 2 am!
And finally you mention Madison wanting either social remedy or bullet remedy? The hunters know to keep quiet! Just like the "cat whackers" we know it would behoove our endeavor to not make much public mention of how we fix things. Bob Barker did not talk to many hunters... they was at work or asleep! House wives and their kids want house cats... NOT HUNTERS! Just like "TIME OUT" spaying won't work... Spayed cats kill just like fertile ones do! The notion that you can trap and spay a wild population is hogwash! So you know we gots us problem? Why spend a hundred dollars per cat to trap, spay and re-release them? a .22 bullet is under 5 cents!
Rant suspended...
Brent

[Rigby1962]

Friend of mine built something like this for feral cats.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvoXin7P4v8

Seriously glad I live in a place where this isn’t even an issue. Cats on your property and in way or another are a nuisance, you shoot it. If it belonged to a neighbor and they complain they get a fine for allowing their pets to run free. Also we just used to call them strays when I was a kid.

[Art Eatman]

10-96, when I first moved to Terlingua in 1983, I lived in a single-wide. Why? "It was there." Already in place on the acreage I bought. I remarried in 1989 and figured that decent woman oughta have a decent home--so I built one. Call it a 1,400 sq-ft hunting lodge with wall-to-wall carpet and air conditioning. Only two minor plumbing repairs in fifteen years, so I did pretty good work. By the time I was done, though, I had my left thumb pretty much beaten into submission.

I drawl and twang, mostly on purpose. I can write and speak in Professional Engineeringese, or use a lot of vernacular. Still recall a little French and know some border Tex-Mex.

I've lived in or travelled extensively in some twenty countries, with a couple of round trips across the Date Line. A couple of years in Paris, back before DeGaulle screwed it up.

Tourist, a problem I have is that you use other folks' emotional "arguments" as some sort of refutation of what's been said of the biological facts we've brought forth. For instance, none of us are seeing dove populations as some sort of problem, or as animals needing protection. The Wisconsin arguments are irrelevant to reality. What's been proven as fact for decades is that you cannot increase the populations of dove and quail by not hunting. You cannot "stockpile" those species.

And bubbas will always exist; they've just been selecting among themselves in Florida, yesterday. You can vote for the bubba of your choice, come November. They'll always be with us, whether in your store or inside the Beltway.

I make no blanket categorization of city people as ignorant of wildlife realities--but a great many of them do indeed fit into that category. These ignoranti, unfortunately, tend to be the most vocal in promoting emotion over fact. Attend a city council meeting or a legislative committee hearing to observe first hand how bad it can be. (On second thought, maybe, don't; it's bad for the psyche. The "blood in the streets" of CHL discussions readily comes to mind.)

At any rate, IMO, using extreme examples in one's effort to justify some position is fallacious reasoning...

Art

[45Marlin carbine]

I see 'em just like coyotes - they are not indigenous species to this area (WNC) are a predatory species. I used to have a flock of bobwhite quail around my place - guess what got 'em. guess what got what got 'em?
this one BIG tom was really wary - he would scram if he heard a footstep in the house but he finally succumbed to ripe sardine bait and a 'stinger'. big fella he was, maybe 20 lbs.

[Nevertoomanyguns]

EHCRAIN10, I don't know what you would use on feral cats but this worked for me on Maine wild cats.

[ELMOUSMC]

I won't get into Bubbas and Townies since this thread is about Feral cats.I own a couple of hundred acres in the upper Mississippi river valley.Over the past decade or so urbain sprawl has brought more "Townies"out into the country and as a personal observation I have seen a definite decrease in the populations of Pheasants and quail not from loss of habitat but from the predation of Cats Feral and domestic.I have 2 golden retrievers that are kenneled unless they are with me doing field work or hunting.Any cat that I see wether pet or feral that is in the woods or fields I kill not for the pleasure of killing somethong but because of 1 fact Cats hunt and kill almost anything they come across and I will continue to do so law or no law ELMO

[hogdogs]

Elmo, You are 100% right in your quest. But they are ALL FERAL if not in the owner's yard. They are "feral domestic feline" by definition if not currently under supervision of a willing owner!
This is also addressed to anyone that thinks it is hard to tell the difference in a feral ie:wild cat and a "domestic" cat. If it is loose it is feral!
Brent

[Wayward_Son]

"If it is loose it is feral!
Brent"

I disagree. Maybe my situation is somehow radically different than that of you and other posters in this thread, but I grew up in a sub division of about forty homes. This division was about 3 miles outside of Sheridan, WY, a town of 13,000 or so folks. The smallest plot in the division was about three acres, most plots averaged 5-6. Ours was the largest in the division with nearly ten acres, with deep ravines on both sides of our house than led into one ravine. Various hawks, herds of mule deer, squadrons of grouse and pheasants, and even a few reclusive red foxes spent time or lived on our property.

We had three cats, all now passed on. Two males with all claws, and one female declawed in the front (whom was the most successful hunter of the three). All were spayed/neutered, all were kept up on their yearly shots, and all were collared and tagged with the rabies vaccination, the contact information of our vet, our contact information and the cat's name.

All three were happy indoor/outdoor cats. When they wanted in, we let them in. When they wanted out, we let them out. When they wanted us to open the door so they could sit at the threshold and ponder their indoor/outdoor duality, we laughed at our silly zen kitties. They usually spent the night indoors (but not always), and they always spent weekdays outside while we were at school or work.

Our cats brought home loads of mice. They occasionally scored big, bringing back water snakes, wild rabbits, and the occasional robin or meadowlark. These were rarities; between three cats we would only see about a dozen non-rodent trophies on the doorstep each year. Granted, there were probably kills that we never saw, but I do not believe for a second that they approached the level of "100 songbirds each year per feline" devastation previously mentioned in this thread. Our cats were primarily rodent extermination experts.

They never brought back any hawks, deer, grouse, pheasants, turkeys or red foxes. Much to my chagrin, because how cool would THAT have been?

More importantly, our cats were never shot, killed, captured, tortured or otherwise culled by any of our neighbors. Why? Because almost all of the people in the sub division also had dogs and cats, and they all let them spend time both indoors and out. Dogs were almost universally held indoors or kenneled by everyone, but there were a few exceptions. Cats were almost universally allowed to roam outside as they pleased, with a few exceptions. Our division was a close-knit community, and we all understood that we all had animals running around. We knew each others pets (usually by name, if not who they actually belonged to). Nobody raised a fuss, nobody shot somebody else's animals, and nobody sued over anything.

My best friend was attacked and recieved ER medical attention when he brought a mis-delivered piece of mail to his next door neighboor, who kept a dog fenced inside the property. My friend's family did not sue, and they did not request that the dog be put down.

Our female cat was attacked and ravaged by a loose dog from one of our immediate neighbors. Several vital organs were pierced or damaged, and her liver was torn into seven separate pieces. She spent two weeks with the vet who removed the smallets pieces of liver and allowed the two largest pieces to rejoin and heal. She outlived both of our males. It cost my parents a good sum of money when the bill came. We did not sue him, we did not ask for recompense, and we did not shoot his dog the next time it wandered onto our property. We understood that we allowed our cats to roam, and we understood that he allowed his dog to roam, and we understood that this was a rare, isolated bad situation that occurred one time, and both our cat and his dog roamed free for another seven years without altercation until his dog died. Our female finally died of old age about four years ago.

"If it is loose it is feral"? No sir, not in our neighborhood. If it was loose (dog or cat) then it probably belonged to someone, and if you had a problem with it you didn't shoot it, you sat down with your neighbor face-to-face and came to an agreement of some sort.

At least, that's how we did it in Wyoming, in my neighborhood. Call me crazy.

[Mainah]

Our cats brought home loads of mice. They occasionally scored big, bringing back water snakes, wild rabbits, and the occasional robin or meadowlark. These were rarities; between three cats we would only see about a dozen non-rodent trophies on the doorstep each year

.

Now multiply that times a million or so domestic cats who are allowed outside. That's a pretty big impact on native wildlife.

At least, that's how we did it in Wyoming, in my neighborhood. Call me crazy.

No, I don't think you're crazy. We own three cats, all were rescued as kittens from feral litters, and we keep them all inside. Some people think we're crazy.

I can understand killing cats to protect native species, but I can't understand taking pleasure in it. That's just me.

[langenc]

I suspect that the subdivision mentioned had very few-rabbits, grouse(if they are in WY) and any other ground nesting animal.

I have a neighbor with 2 cats, a cat door and NO litter box. They come and go at will. I have few mice now-no rabbits and fresh tracks on the sidewalk(in the snow) 26+ mornings a month. Have had to put gravel in the flower garden (only dry dirt for blocks around) as the stench is too much.

Are these Feral cats??

[tplumeri]

Got bubbas everywhere, which has nothing to do with populations or problems with feral cats or deer...

However, bubbas are handy little critters. You use them as stalking dogs, watching which way they go and then figuring out where will the deer go that they spook. Got me some decent bucks, that way.

The problem is that this thread is about feral cats, not about rampant hunting and bubbas. Some thread drift doesn't hurt, but let's don't go to hijacking the thread...

Hey Art, You replied to me (You talkin' to me? dont see anyone else...) and advised me not to hijack the thread with talk about Bubbas.
Are the above quotes yours or am i having another flashback?

Anyway, this thread is now being driven by emotion, probably time to end it.
Geez, you'd think we were talking about shooting a dog or something.......

[Wayward_Son]

Mainah: A million or so cats living outside where? In the entire USA? So were looking at perhaps 4-10 million animals killed per year by Felis Domesticus, in the third largest country (in landmass) in the world? That may be significant, but that still is not anywhere near the "100 songbirds per year per cat" quotient (which also discounts all the other animals cats hunt and kill).

But you also say that you cannot imagine how people can take pleasure in culling cats, either feral or domesticated, and I agree. Unfortunately it seems that there are many people who love to torture, maim and kill cats, feral or domestic, out of glee--and then hide behind the false curtain of "controlling the feral cat population which is killing all of these native songbirds" tripe. It would appear (to me) that at least a few of these people are posting with us here at TFL. Not only does this make me angry on a personal, cat-owning level, but it gives all hunters and gun owners a bad name in the eyes of the gun-wary populace, and this only further hampers our efforts as responsible gun owners, especially when perpetrated by gun owners. It smacks of hypocrisy in the eyes of those we wish to accept and understand us.

Langenc: Our sub division was loaded with feral rabbits, and we had a substantial population of both Ruff grouse as well as Ringneck pheasants. We also saw the occasional confused Blue grouse, even though we tended to find them in areas with heavier wooded areas.

Tplumeri: This thread has been supported by emotional appeals as well as factual examples on both sides of the debate. That is no reason to lock the thread. Internet threads are often supported by emotional appeals, as are everyday face-to-face human discussions. If you haven't noticed, the presidential primaries are almost entirely emotionally-driven (and you can bet the full presidential election will be as well), as they have been for as long as I can remember. That doesn't mean that we should stop having presidential elections because of the emotional factor, and that certainly doesn't mean we should stop having internet discussions of real-world problems (feral cats, in this case) simply because emotional elements often arise.

And yes, to many cat-owners, shooting a cat is the same as shooting a dog is to a dog-owner. I love cats and dogs equally, and have had both animals for my entire life. I own cats now instead of dogs because my living/housing/working/personal situation disallows a canine friend. I am not at home enough and cannot devote the time and attention required to raise a dog. It would be unfair to the animal.

And by the way, that suggests that you think that cats are somehow beneath or not deserving of the same level of love, respect and ownership as dogs, that it is okay to shoot cats willy-nilly while it is unthinkable to shoot a man's dog, and that is certainly an emotionally-driven idea if you'd stop to think all the way through it. So please stop trying to get the admins to close the thread. There is plenty of thought- and conversation-stimulating material here, and if it can sway one person's opinions one way or the other then it is of value.