Free vs paid reloading data. - Page 3

74A95 · February 13, 2019, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBarn

But some of the free online data that hasn't been made available in printed form hasn't been pressure tested either.

Which online data fits in that category? Thanks.

Marco Califo · February 13, 2019, 03:35 PM

Quote:

I had to track down a printed manual from the 1970's to get obsolete load data that wasn't available online.

Try here and look around. They have scanned Powder maker data, and some old paper manuals (scanned).
http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Freebies/default.htmlp

BBarn · February 13, 2019, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 74A95

Which online data fits in that category? Thanks.

Some loads posted by individuals on the various shooting forums. Loads developed using computer simulation programs.

Marco Califo · February 13, 2019, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Some loads posted by individuals on the various shooting forums. Loads developed using computer simulation programs

Really? Specific links you can post here? I would like to see. I doubt you can show more than one odd example.
That is why we have the official load data sticky at the top of this forum. If you use something else, you do so at your own risk (and should not). I collect data resources that are published with the Company's name (Powder, Bullets, manuals). Frankly, I don't consider anything else as load data. Once in a while I might come across someone's load list, and find it entertaining, but would never under and conditions accept it as load data. At most I may locate the makers source data (which I would use).
My actual method is to put all my data sources on loads I consider into an Excel spreadsheet side by side in columns. That way I get out a box of bullets, find the tab and row I need, and compare what powders get mid to high velocity for that bullet. Since the data is all in one place, I can compare Alliant BE-86 to CFE Pistol to Ramshot Silhouette at a glance. Then I consider which I have on hand.
I sometimes see data clearly labeled/disclosed as Quickloads estimates or predictions. So? What's your point? That is not Published Load Data.
I do not think there is a substitute for knowing what you are looking at and where it came from.

**Aguila Blanca** · February 13, 2019, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HiBC

Its the depth of the bullet base that determines combustion chamber volume.

That was the basic point I was trying to make.

Yes, 44_AMP, I did mistype on the case length. Thanks for catching that.

NWPilgrim · February 13, 2019, 07:55 PM

I don’t trust anybody!

. That’s why I cross-reference several sources when planning a load test series. I typically try to get data as near to my components as possible from bullet and powder manufacturer, Lyman’s, QuickLoad for rough estimating, recommendations from other forum users, Ken Water’s “ Pet Loads”. Also share data between a couple of friends. I take various data and then consider what seems on the low end and work up a ladder from there. Sometimes a recommended load ends up being one of the best in the series.

I store my test results in Excel spreadsheets which are auto copied to my phone and backed up on DropBox. So some data is free and some is paid. Never looking for a max load just an accurate load at mid-range charge. But sometimes such as with W296 the best load is going to be near max.

BBarn · February 14, 2019, 08:08 AM

Marco,

Here's two examples of discussions I found fairly quickly. Some of the individual posts contain warnings, others do not.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=338190

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=591594

**Unclenick** · February 14, 2019, 09:13 AM

Reynolds357,

Note that Hornady and Sierra will provide you with their data free for a specific bullet. Just email them and ask for it.

Std7mag,

One thing I've observed with a number of short pistol loads is the primer often starts unseating the bullet before the powder gets burning or the case expands and drops pressure by venting a little of the gas around the bullet and up the barrel (gas bypass), so the actual volume behind the bullet is not quite as predicted from the cartridge dimensions. Unfortunately, that means the only way to be sure what the pressure from a load will be is to measure it. QuickLOAD sure gives you some scary numbers from short seating, though.

Marco Califo · February 14, 2019, 10:03 AM

Those are individuals saying they did something. That is not, IMO, published load data, and, also, IMO, not something anyone with any sense would load to without verification. Obsolete cartridges, and for that matter, surplus military powders, are cases where obscure information could help someone (who knows what they are doing anyway). Disclaimers would be expected.
If you do not understand the difference dont reload.

BBarn · February 14, 2019, 11:21 AM

Gee, my point was simply some loads shared online (free) haven't been pressure tested. And I provided a couple of quick examples per request. In contrast, most load data that is printed and sold (and sometimes available free or online) has been pressure tested.

kmw1954 · February 14, 2019, 11:50 AM

I define FREE one of two ways; free from a source such as a bullet or powder manufacturer or free such as passed along from a member on a public reloading forum.
I will use the first but not the second except as a point of reference.

I have posted loads here and elsewhere but they have always been very general in nature and usually just include the bullet used and the type and amount of powder. Will not normally include any COAL as what fits mine may not fit anyone else's or the primers used.

When talking specific loads on a forum I will also normally state where I got the data and what the beginning and max charge weights are.

February 14, 2019, 09:13 AM	#58
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Reynolds357, Note that Hornady and Sierra will provide you with their data free for a specific bullet. Just email them and ask for it. Std7mag, One thing I've observed with a number of short pistol loads is the primer often starts unseating the bullet before the powder gets burning or the case expands and drops pressure by venting a little of the gas around the bullet and up the barrel (gas bypass), so the actual volume behind the bullet is not quite as predicted from the cartridge dimensions. Unfortunately, that means the only way to be sure what the pressure from a load will be is to measure it. QuickLOAD sure gives you some scary numbers from short seating, though. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

February 14, 2019, 10:03 AM	#59
Marco Califo Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2011 Location: LA (Greater Los Angeles Area) Posts: 2,598	Those are individuals saying they did something. That is not, IMO, published load data, and, also, IMO, not something anyone with any sense would load to without verification. Obsolete cartridges, and for that matter, surplus military powders, are cases where obscure information could help someone (who knows what they are doing anyway). Disclaimers would be expected. If you do not understand the difference dont reload. __________________ ............ Last edited by Marco Califo; February 14, 2019 at 11:21 AM.

February 13, 2019, 07:55 PM	#56
NWPilgrim Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,346	I don’t trust anybody! . That’s why I cross-reference several sources when planning a load test series. I typically try to get data as near to my components as possible from bullet and powder manufacturer, Lyman’s, QuickLoad for rough estimating, recommendations from other forum users, Ken Water’s “ Pet Loads”. Also share data between a couple of friends. I take various data and then consider what seems on the low end and work up a ladder from there. Sometimes a recommended load ends up being one of the best in the series. I store my test results in Excel spreadsheets which are auto copied to my phone and backed up on DropBox. So some data is free and some is paid. Never looking for a max load just an accurate load at mid-range charge. But sometimes such as with W296 the best load is going to be near max.

February 14, 2019, 08:08 AM	#57
BBarn Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2015 Posts: 887	Marco, Here's two examples of discussions I found fairly quickly. Some of the individual posts contain warnings, others do not. https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=338190 https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=591594

February 14, 2019, 11:21 AM	#60
BBarn Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2015 Posts: 887	Gee, my point was simply some loads shared online (free) haven't been pressure tested. And I provided a couple of quick examples per request. In contrast, most load data that is printed and sold (and sometimes available free or online) has been pressure tested.

February 14, 2019, 11:50 AM	#61
kmw1954 Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2016 Location: SE Wisconsin Posts: 1,524	I define FREE one of two ways; free from a source such as a bullet or powder manufacturer or free such as passed along from a member on a public reloading forum. I will use the first but not the second except as a point of reference. I have posted loads here and elsewhere but they have always been very general in nature and usually just include the bullet used and the type and amount of powder. Will not normally include any COAL as what fits mine may not fit anyone else's or the primers used. When talking specific loads on a forum I will also normally state where I got the data and what the beginning and max charge weights are.