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Old December 13, 2018, 09:18 AM   #26
Tactical Jackalope
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Ah, you meant for trigger control. Well, yeah. Heard that. We need to dry fire practice weekly. Admittedly I've been doing it bi-weekly.

I did have a USP 9C with a spurred hammer before. I prefer this kind for concealed carry though. It doesn't catch the garment at all and never has, thankfully lol.

I can still cock it with my left, but I lose my full two handed grip for a few nanos.


Waiting for the thumbnail that was put back on to fall off. Then I have 5+ months till that sucker grows back. Wonder if it'll still be this sensitive when that happens.


I mean, I could carry the Glock for a few if I really wanted to. But meh...I should be fine.

Just curious.
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Old December 13, 2018, 09:38 PM   #27
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I meant active shooter which could include a mass shooter, but is not limited to a mass shooter. I understand no place is completely safe, but where I live, work, and travel to, I worry more about being exposed to an active shooter targeting random people or other people than myself. I have less fear of being targeted specifically than being caught up in the middle of someone's violent actions toward others.
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Old December 14, 2018, 09:17 AM   #28
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Ah, heard. I gotcha. I guess I could say the same. I don't really go out to malls much. But this is one of the busiest traffic-ridden cities in the US. Road rage here is daily among people.
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Old February 4, 2019, 08:54 AM   #29
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Just came across this thread, thought it could use a reply.

First and foremost, what are all these different guns, different modes, types revolvers, DA/SA?

I have one piece of advice for a survivor, in order to survive a totally surprise gun fight.

SAME GUN, SAME PLACE, ALWAYS!

In my case Glock 19, 4th Gen. 4/5lb trigger, extended slide stop (release) night sights TruGlo. Flush fit butt plug helps in mag changes. OBM at 4 o'clock.

Trigger feel is always the same. Not a 1911 crispness, but can be learned.

And 16 rounds ready to go? Can't be bad?
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Old February 4, 2019, 12:32 PM   #30
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Oh my God, Britt. You're still carrying the exact same guns several years (since I've known) in a row consistently. lol Good stuff, man.

Hope all is well.

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Old February 6, 2019, 06:38 AM   #31
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I also have a DA/SA model. At first it was awkward but with lots of practice I've become much better at the DA trigger pull. Still not as good as with SA, and that's probably true by definition for basically everyone -- a 12 pound trigger is harder to pull than a 4 pound trigger.

It sounds like you've basically found your maximum effective distance for that first shot. I would say that whatever you carry should be used in the way in which it was intended to be used, and for DA/SA that means DA on the first shot, regardless of circumstance. Probably not feasible to think you'll be taking the time to cock a hammer (that you don't usually train to do) under stress and immediate mortal danger.

Everyone has a maximum effective distance. I'd say the overwhelming majority of people have a maximum effective distance of about 15 feet with any gun under good circumstances -- a visit to any public range will confirm that. So you're well ahead of that game

You could change what you carry, but that would give up all the years of practice you've already invested in one particular weapon. Everything is a compromise. A DA/SA trigger offers some benefits and some drawbacks. One of those is a first shot at distance.
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Old February 9, 2019, 09:26 AM   #32
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Oh my God, Britt. You're still carrying the exact same guns several years (since I've known) in a row consistently. lol Good stuff, man.

Hope all is well.

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Well..... A change is coming. Reference weight, and bulk.

The new Glock 43X. A single stack 10 round magazine, 9mm. With factory night sights. I think Glock bought out Ameriglo? With a Safariland concealed carry holster, also doubles as a duty holster. Holds real close to the body. Two months behind on their orders, the local distributor that is, put a deposit down to assure me one, with night sights. 4 oz off.
And much slimmer, 1" wide slide.

And yes, all is well!
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Old February 9, 2019, 10:52 AM   #33
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Glock didn't buy Ameriglo, they just partner with them.

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Old February 9, 2019, 01:53 PM   #34
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Gotta chime in. I normally shoot Glocks, SDs & Sigmas, & 5946s. Yesterday, Id went to the range with 2 guns - a Sig P250 and a Kel Tec P11. Both are "real" DAO pistols - like revolvers.

First mag at 10 yards was worst than a shotgun pattern because I hadn't shot real DAO in about 6 months. After a couple of mags, I was back to my typical 2 to 3 inch groups at 10 yards at less than a second between shots.

Moral of the story - To learn real trigger control, do it with real DAO. If one learns how to control the trigger of revolvers and real DAO's, they will be able to shoot any handgun well. Trying it from the other way around and it is a huge challenge. Also, if skills aren't kept up with DAO, they go away quickly.

Give a revolver shooter a 1911 and they will shot it well after a mag or two. Give a dedicated 1911 shooter a revolver and tell 'em to shoot it in DAO and they will tell you how crappy the trigger is.
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Old February 9, 2019, 05:33 PM   #35
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This is the sort of question you didn't hear asked nearly as often back when LE were using DA revolvers and were being trained to make longer distance shots using heavy DA trigger pulls.

Sure, some of the training and qual courses might permit someone the option to thumb cock their revolver into SA for longer and slower aimed shots (and back then revolver SA meant as low as a 3lb trigger pull weight), but there came a trend where liability concerns regarding light SA triggers resulted in some agencies requiring revolver converted to DAO.

Too many people were shot when things got exciting and someone's thumb-cocked revolver was triggered while cocked in that light SA mode, so some people making the decisions decided that eliminating SA capability was a good idea. (This was still present in some thinking when the CHP requested their 4006's be equipped with a spurless hammer, making it less likely someone would try and thumb cock the guns.)

There are times when I really miss the service revolver days. Learning to use a DA revolver to instill a handgun foundation skillset could produce some better handgunners, especially those who were serious about their skills. Working to master a DA revolver with its heavy DA trigger pull and the typically awkward shaped grip stocks, especially combined with harder recoiling Magnum calibers, required more of the shooters.

Folks who were trained on their foundation skillset using DA revolvers were more likely to be able thsoot almost any other handgun they picked up (even if they didn't really care for the odd grips and levers & buttons found on the bottom-feeding crunchen-tickers ).

FWIW, even when the common course-of-fire for many LE quals was shortened to less than 25yds, with many involving distances of only 3-11yds, I still liked to take my revolvers (including my DAO snubs) out to 30-50+yds to run drills and assess the condition of my basics. Every now and again I'd take one of my revolvers or DA/SA pistols out to 75-90yds, using the standard silhouettes or steel targets to assess the basics. It became a matter of principle to accurately make that first COM shot using DA in the guns which had DA & SA capability, and all of the shots in DA in the DA/DAO revolvers.

Eyes dim with age, though, and the small target areas once easily seen and defined with younger eyes become more difficult with aging eyes. That doesn't mean it's an excuse to allow the skills to degrade, though. Fight the ravages of normal aging to the degree possible to keep the skills from completely rusting over.

You can always pick up one of the plastic-fantastic 9's with their plastic triggers and reduce recoil (kinder on aging and/or weakened-by-repetitive-injuries joints ).

I find my 9's to be a bit gentler than my .40/.45's and Magnum revolvers, and even gentler than my 5-shot snubs chambered in .357 or even just loaded with +P.
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Old February 9, 2019, 05:35 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Onward Allusion View Post
...

Moral of the story - To learn real trigger control, do it with real DAO. If one learns how to control the trigger of revolvers and real DAO's, they will be able to shoot any handgun well. Trying it from the other way around and it is a huge challenge. Also, if skills aren't kept up with DAO, they go away quickly.

Give a revolver shooter a 1911 and they will shot it well after a mag or two. Give a dedicated 1911 shooter a revolver and tell 'em to shoot it in DAO and they will tell you how crappy the trigger is.
Yep. Not an uncommon observation.
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Old February 9, 2019, 07:30 PM   #37
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Well, you can practice good fundamentals until you can make the shot in DA, practice cocking the hammer until you can do that without much thought/effort, or you can change equipment to something with less of a trigger pull (and practice to get good with that).

I HIGHLY recommend some competitions and force-on-force training. You'll quickly see how rapidly people's accuracy drops under stress, and it will help you develop a better understanding of your actual capabilities.
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Old February 10, 2019, 09:27 AM   #38
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I carry a Glock 31C. I practice @ 50 an 100 yards regularly. I used to shoot PPC and the old qual course for the Border Patrol we had 12 shots @ 50 yards.

Those who worry about the courts and prosecutors for a longish shot need to wake up. If you can articulate it @ 2 yards why is it different @ 50 yards? Think of the waffle house shooting, think of the Paris night club shootings. Think outside the box. The only way to mentally prepare for this is to mentally prepare for it.
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Old February 10, 2019, 10:31 AM   #39
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I carry a Glock 31C. I practice @ 50 an 100 yards regularly. I used to shoot PPC and the old qual course for the Border Patrol we had 12 shots @ 50 yards.



Those who worry about the courts and prosecutors for a longish shot need to wake up. If you can articulate it @ 2 yards why is it different @ 50 yards? Think of the waffle house shooting, think of the Paris night club shootings. Think outside the box. The only way to mentally prepare for this is to mentally prepare for it.
It's different because it's different. It's easier to make a jury understand that someone is a threat at 2 yds than at 50 yds. Heck at 50 yds if the guy isn't already shooting at you someone could make arguments about threat identification depending on the lighting conditions and clothing. This isn't to say that I think long distance shots aren't important, because they certainly are and can be necessary (Peach House RV Park shooting). This doesn't even get into points about the threat a person with a contact weapon presents at 50 yds versus 2 yds.

My point is communicating that need to use lethal force may well be more challenging for longer distance shots. As for the Border Patrol, the average civilian isn't a federal officer of the law patrolling a nation's border. What is acceptable for law enforcement isn't always the same for private citizens, fair or not.

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Old February 10, 2019, 06:35 PM   #40
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I am not trying to be a jerk or anything but the answer is rather simple. Choose a platform and get some training. Sure a double action pull and trigger weight can hinder accuracy more and more as distance increases. Sure a single action pull is generally much more forgiving no matter your skill level but making decent DA shots at 25 yards should not be a "problem" if you have proper training and practice. If you cant manage it and plan to carry a DA/SA, train more and practice more. I do not recommend some sort of work-a-round.

I would not try to make a SA/DA pistol a SA pistol by cocking the hammer during the draw stroke, I would simply carry a SA pistol and be done with it.

I don't want to carry a heavy all steel BHP but that's what fits my hand well and its what I shoot well. Until I find something that better fits the bill, that's what I will carry. Guns are not about comfort or panache. They are simply a tool that you select based on what works best in your particular circumstance.

It sounds like what you want and what you currently need are two different things. I think you simply need to make a choice based on base priorities and invest yourself in that particular platform.

Far too many people get all jammed up based on superficial considerations like "want" , "desire" or the "coolness" factor. I think that more people would have less problems if they would just select a weapon they need as opposed to some flavor of the month that everyone else thinks is kool.
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Old February 10, 2019, 07:36 PM   #41
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I carry a Glock 31C. I practice @ 50 an 100 yards regularly. I used to shoot PPC and the old qual course for the Border Patrol we had 12 shots @ 50 yards.

Those who worry about the courts and prosecutors for a longish shot need to wake up. If you can articulate it @ 2 yards why is it different @ 50 yards? Think of the waffle house shooting, think of the Paris night club shootings. Think outside the box. The only way to mentally prepare for this is to mentally prepare for it.
Yep, if you don't believe it can be done, and don't prepare for it, you probably ought not ever think to attempt it.

Sometimes the reasonable, necessary and appropriate nature of the on-view deadly force being presented, even at longer than "normal" handgun distance, may almost articulate itself, though ... even approx 312 feet ...

https://www.foxnews.com/us/austin-co...-crazed-gunman

https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/s...ter-104-yards/
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Old February 10, 2019, 07:55 PM   #42
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If you can articulate it @ 2 yards why is it different @ 50 yards?
well because distance does mitigate certain aspects of danger rather easily. Distance can also offer options associated "time" that closer proximity does not. Close proximity can often times go hand in hand with compounding exigencies, urgencies and things supporting the idea that something is imminent. Distances can also hamper a person ability to accurately assess exactly what is happening and why. If you cannot imagine how a danger at 2 yards may not be viewed with the same level urgency as the same at 50 yards.. I don't know how to explain it.

I agree that the time for worry about court or legal trouble isn't when you are fighting for your life. I will focus on survival
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Old February 12, 2019, 06:24 AM   #43
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Glock didn't buy Ameriglo, they just partner with them.

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Thanks for that, I was given wrong info. Hope the night sights supplied will not require the usual push over to the right, to shoot straight.

A look at the past, when I first started carrying and shooting in IPSC matches, my newly acquired Glock 17, with night sights.

I was on the Palm Bay FL Police range, with a buddy of mine. They had a 2ft by a 2ft steel plate, suspended by chains, at 100 yards.

Another visitor a Fed? Was making fun of me going prone to try a shot at that steel plate, with my "Silly" plastic gun. My Buddy bet him, a Buck, I could hit it!

Three rounds all hits! (147g Black Tallon) Now, Ranger T, He paid up too!
I still have that purchased directly from Austria in 1984 Glock 17.

Glock in Smyrna GA replaced the cracked frame for free in 2015, and all the springs and striker.

Last edited by Brit; February 12, 2019 at 07:01 AM.
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Old February 12, 2019, 08:44 AM   #44
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Thanks for that, I was given wrong info. Hope the night sights supplied will not require the usual push over to the right, to shoot straight.

A look at the past, when I first started carrying and shooting in IPSC matches, my newly acquired Glock 17, with night sights.

I was on the Palm Bay FL Police range, with a buddy of mine. They had a 2ft by a 2ft steel plate, suspended by chains, at 100 yards.

Another visitor a Fed? Was making fun of me going prone to try a shot at that steel plate, with my "Silly" plastic gun. My Buddy bet him, a Buck, I could hit it!

Three rounds all hits! (147g Black Tallon) Now, Ranger T, He paid up too!
I still have that purchased directly from Austria in 1984 Glock 17.

Glock in Smyrna GA replaced the cracked frame for free in 2015, and all the springs and striker.
Copy to 'why I hate Glocks' thread....
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Old February 12, 2019, 12:53 PM   #45
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Yeah, you just need to practice with whatever you carry. I was issued a 3rd gen Smith 9mm for years and people complained that they always dropped their first shot at qualifications and I never had an issue. I learned to shoot on wheelguns.

I work an odd mix of field interviews and office now. I typically carry a SW 642 and sometimes a Glock 29 if going to an especially bad area. I feel pretty comfortable taking a long shot with the 642. I have to qualify with it out to 25 yards and I’ve never dropped a shot. It has a 1.8” barrel and a receiver groove for ansight
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Old February 12, 2019, 04:20 PM   #46
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Hello. Me again. lol, sorry. I let this thread slip away from me.

Don't know if I mentioned it here already, I was healing from dual hand surgeries at the time of this thread and haven't carried my Glock in years.

Thank you for the concerns of training. I have plenty but at the same time, not enough. It's never enough. I always want more and you all should, too.

I've taken force on force (it's extremely eye opening), gun fighting, night courses, etc etc etc.

What I haven't taken, is long distance shooting courses... because....Are there any? lol.

Anyway, I'm good now. Thumb nail is back now almost 70%. Right hand has full function and left hand has 98% function.


As for the other stuff, I'm gonna keep trying the DA pulls at distance. I'll report back here. I'd like a 30/35 yard hit with my DA pull consistently. That's my goal.


Have some more faith, people! lol, not everyone is a shiny newbie just because they ask a question.
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Old February 12, 2019, 04:28 PM   #47
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Just because you aren't a newbie doesn't mean that the information people share is of no value to you, or moreso maybe the information will help someone else that comes across the thread. I look at threads as starting points. Discussions evolve and can move in ways we may not anticipate. There is an element of staying on topic of course, but at the same time the community isn't a paid personal assistant. This is free and like a lot of free things you might get something you didn't necessarily need.

Edit: To be clear the above isn't meant as a condemnation, just as a reminder.

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Old February 12, 2019, 05:02 PM   #48
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If i was required to carry a DA/SA pistol and i HAD to take a shot at extended distance, i would thumb cock the pistol.

The rational is simple. Distance usually equals time. It does not take very much time to thumb cock with the support hand as the pistol is presented and the resulting trigger is MUCH easier to control.

I would have to verify it on the range with a timer, but i bet its faster to thumb cock then to take the time to try to manage a DA trigger and get a good hit at distance.

All that said i dont choose to carry a pistol with a trigger that handicaps good shooting
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Old February 12, 2019, 05:22 PM   #49
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To the time issue, I'm not sure. In one course I did we did tests where we delivered rounds starting with our fingers on the trigger and then again with our fingers along the frame. The time difference for every shooter was in the margin of error. I'm not sure the difference between thumb cocking the hammer and just staging the trigger would be that much, or if so how much is then significant? I did a long distance pistol course where we went out to 200 yds. The only shooter in the class that made a 200 yd shot did so with a P226, DA for the shot. The shooter's claim for doing it DA rather than SA was that staging the trigger helped reduce his shot anticipation flinch. I don't think the DA trigger really made him better, I think he was just a better shooter (and my guess is practice is the difference maker).

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