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Old September 2, 2020, 10:34 PM   #26
stinkeypete
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Fleeing across a state line makes it federal and hoooo boy, that "friend" in Wisconsin is gonna need a fancy lawyer.

Minors simply do not enjoy the same rights as adults. They can't vote, for instance.

Some regulations on minors is in the Wisconsin DNR Hunting Regulations. page 7
https://widnr.widen.net/s/z9kfb1yqcw
Let's assume that the fella has not passed the Wisconsin Hunter Education Class so he's not eligible to carry a firearm unless accompanied by his parent or legal guardian anywhere in the state as a minimum and local regulations will be more restrictive.
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Old September 2, 2020, 10:35 PM   #27
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One thing is certain- I'm sure everyone involved would gladly take a Mulligan.
I'm betting Mr. Kyle Rittenhouse is alive and well today because someone provided him a rifle. There's several instances of unarmed white guys, minding their own business, running into these mobs and being beaten severely ..... one locally, for certain ...one in DC Thursday night .... others, I'm sure. Going armed was prudent, given the circumstances ....getting separated from his group, not so much.
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Old September 3, 2020, 12:02 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by stinkeypete
Fleeing across a state line makes it federal and hoooo boy, that "friend" in Wisconsin is gonna need a fancy lawyer.
There's video of him at or near the scene, trying to flag down a passing police vehicle (two or three, in fact), and they just drove past him. If he's charged with fleeing across state lines, that video is the first thing I would show the jury if I were his attorney.

But ... I believe any charge involving crossing state lines would have to be a federal charge. I wonder if Trump and Barr would even consider charging him.
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Old September 3, 2020, 02:37 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by stinkeypete View Post
Fleeing across a state line makes it federal and hoooo boy, that "friend" in Wisconsin is gonna need a fancy lawyer.

Minors simply do not enjoy the same rights as adults. They can't vote, for instance.

Some regulations on minors is in the Wisconsin DNR Hunting Regulations. page 7
https://widnr.widen.net/s/z9kfb1yqcw
Let's assume that the fella has not passed the Wisconsin Hunter Education Class so he's not eligible to carry a firearm unless accompanied by his parent or legal guardian anywhere in the state as a minimum and local regulations will be more restrictive.
I asked earlier what "across state lines" had to do with anything. I guess your post is an attempt to answer that. I still think it's a red herring.

The Militia Act is an interesting defense for any potential WI firearm charges. It has very little to do with the 2nd Amendment. The USSC had no problem with Miller's claim to be in the unorganized militia, and Rittenhouse has a better claim to that than Miller did.
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Old September 3, 2020, 08:46 PM   #30
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Zx, In my arrogant Opinion, Miller was decided in error... I
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Old September 3, 2020, 09:06 PM   #31
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Miller was decided in error because nobody showed up to provide evidence that shotguns were actually used by soldiers. (Miller was dead at the time) But IIRC they had no issue with the militia claim; just said it was moot because short-barrel shotguns were not military weapons.
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Old September 4, 2020, 05:25 PM   #32
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"The state is still going to throw everything it can at him because the political leaders approve of the mayhem. [Colin didn't say that last part, I did]"

I was going to suggest googling up Micheal Graveley, the DA that's prosecuting Kyle. He has since taken down his Facebook page. Right at the top of his page he states that "I prosecute ALL self defense cases." (Emphasis mine) He probably took it down because of too many nastygrams as there were a few when I went there. Some were quite threatening. Nice guy that Graveley, you're guilty until proven innocent.
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Old September 4, 2020, 06:20 PM   #33
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Won't stick

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"The state is still going to throw everything it can at him
True and it's not going to stick. Look for charges to be reduce or pleaded. Then, all "heck" will break loose again .....

Be Safe !!!
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Old September 4, 2020, 09:50 PM   #34
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The rifle belonged to a friend in Wisconsin.
If true, now "the friend" is also going to be dragged to the stake.

...if true.
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Old September 4, 2020, 11:50 PM   #35
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What his lawyer says. https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news...n-self-defense
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Old September 11, 2020, 02:20 PM   #36
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We don't. But what we do know is that the shooter made the decision to pack up a gun he was too young to be carrying, take it across state lines,
No "we" don't maybe you do but it's my understanding the gun was given to him by a friend in Wisconsin . Here in lies the problem , we talk as if "we know" and we don't . So "if" it was given to him from a friend in Wisconsin and that friend was there with him that night , then what ??? Hmm not so clear anymore is it ?

I also understand that Wisconsin has a rather robust self defense clause in the law that you can claim self defense even if you were the one that started the interaction . I'm looking for the video I watched that had a practicing Wisconsin lawyer explaining all this . His conclusion was that all charges will be dropped based on how the law reads there .

I'll post when I find it . Good watch IMO lots of context in there .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8L7JQ-KXzWg
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Old September 11, 2020, 06:39 PM   #37
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That is a very informative watch. Sounds like that kid is going to go through heck, but at the end of the day he is going to walk away.
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Old September 11, 2020, 06:58 PM   #38
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That is a very informative watch. Sounds like that kid is going to go through heck, but at the end of the day he is going to walk away.
I think you're right but not because of what that lawyer said ... well kind of but more because I don't think he gets 12 of his piers to say he's guilty . Maybe some , maybe most but based on what I've read and heard I can't see everyone voting guilty . There will be at least one hanging this jury if the acquittal doesn't happen .

There has also been rumors that his lawyers have legal issues them selves in other states which can't be good . If anything , he can't afford any distraction in his case and having lawyers with legal troubles will not help much .

Here is the criminal complaint https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...Complaint.html

EDIT , Here's another video of a lawyer going over the Criminal complaint
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMmCAbJT6U0
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Old September 12, 2020, 08:51 AM   #39
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There has also been rumors that his lawyers have legal issues them selves in other states which can't be good
Interesting wrinkle that I hadn't heard. Your first attorney interview struck me when that lawyer laid out that the prosecution will have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that his actions weren't justified.

Especially considering that they have charged him with pre-meditated murder, I just think it is going to be a pretty crazy stretch to get over that bar.
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Old September 12, 2020, 06:55 PM   #40
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I believe towards the end of the criminal complaint it states that the defendant spoke with the detective . That’s never good for the defendant . What he said during that interview could very well be why he was charged with first-degree homicide . This case Just got a whole lot more interesting imo .
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Old September 12, 2020, 07:09 PM   #41
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I believe towards the end of the criminal complaint it states that the defendant spoke with the detective . That’s never good for the defendant . What he said during that interview could very well be why he was charged with first-degree homicide . This case Just got a whole lot more interesting imo .
If he's 17 and legally a minor, and the detective interviewed him without a parent or an attorney present -- the entire interview may be non-admissible.
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Old September 14, 2020, 01:20 PM   #42
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I like to think that my friends that carry do so to protect their families and themselves when all other options have been exhausted. If involved in a shooting, I expect these responsible folks would contact law enforcement and medical help as soon as safely possible.

Traveling armed to a trouble spot is for professional law enforcement or the National Guard (as our governor did well before any media call for it.) At the minimum, deputized civilians- and that might be a fuzzy area.

A civilians traveling Significant distance to defend others... that’s a vigilante, and although it’s glorified in the movies and comic books, it’s criminal. Throughout history, vigilantes have committed crimes and violated the civil rights of others. A country with laws prosecutes them.

A minor is someone with less rights than an older person because society has set forth that they are have weaker judgement and decision making capability than an older adult. We also believe children deserve special treatment for rehabilitation. Particularly violent crimes by older minors have been waived in to adult court.

An adult arming a minor Or otherwise aiding them, knowing their intention to act as a vigilante is in serious trouble too.

My opinion is that to protect a less restrictive interpretation of the second amendment, the public must see that violations of our laws by armed individuals will be prosecuted vigorously and a just verdict handed down. Should the public learn that simple loopholes allow an individual to violate our standing laws with impunity- I believe laws will be made more restrictive.

I live in Wisconsin. Kids used to drive over the border to drink beer. Vigilantes are not welcome.
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Old September 14, 2020, 01:26 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by stinkeypete View Post
I like to think that my friends that carry do so to protect their families and themselves when all other options have been exhausted. If involved in a shooting, I expect these responsible folks would contact law enforcement and medical help as soon as safely possible.

Traveling armed to a trouble spot is for professional law enforcement or the National Guard (as our governor did well before any media call for it.) At the minimum, deputized civilians- and that might be a fuzzy area.

A civilians traveling Significant distance to defend others... that’s a vigilante, and although it’s glorified in the movies and comic books, it’s criminal. Throughout history, vigilantes have committed crimes and violated the civil rights of others. A country with laws prosecutes them.

A minor is someone with less rights than an older person because society has set forth that they are have weaker judgement and decision making capability than an older adult. We also believe children deserve special treatment for rehabilitation. Particularly violent crimes by older minors have been waived in to adult court.

An adult arming a minor Or otherwise aiding them, knowing their intention to act as a vigilante is in serious trouble too.

My opinion is that to protect a less restrictive interpretation of the second amendment, the public must see that violations of our laws by armed individuals will be prosecuted vigorously and a just verdict handed down. Should the public learn that simple loopholes allow an individual to violate our standing laws with impunity- I believe laws will be made more restrictive.

I live in Wisconsin. Kids used to drive over the border to drink beer. Vigilantes are not welcome.
Who are you talking about? The kid works in Kenosha.
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Old September 14, 2020, 02:17 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by stinkeypete
A civilians traveling Significant distance to defend others... that’s a vigilante, and although it’s glorified in the movies and comic books, it’s criminal. Throughout history, vigilantes have committed crimes and violated the civil rights of others. A country with laws prosecutes them.
Irrespective of travel distance, how is a civilian defending another civilian criminal? The laws that address when a "civilian" can employ deadly force in defense of a third party do not -- insofar as I know -- impose any restrictions on where the defender can come from or how far he/she is allowed to travel.

Defending an innocent third party is a very different matter (IMHO) than joining a lynch mob. It's the lynch mob history that has given vigilantes a bad name, but the Kenosha incident hardly fits that general category.
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Old September 14, 2020, 04:48 PM   #45
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https://wcca.wicourts.gov/caseDetail...0&mode=details
According to Wisconsin Circuit Court Access, he is a resident of Antioch, Ill.
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Old September 14, 2020, 05:09 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by stinkeypete
According to Wisconsin Circuit Court Access, he is a resident of Antioch, Ill.
That's not in dispute. He lives where he lives, and he works (or worked) in Kenosha, WI.

So ... what's your point?
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Old September 14, 2020, 08:38 PM   #47
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I did a lot of really stupid, and in hindsight embarrassingly idiotic, things when I was 17. Fortunately none of them were as stupid as murdering people on the street because I didn't agree with them.
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Old September 14, 2020, 09:28 PM   #48
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....none of them were as stupid as murdering people
on the street because I didn't agree with them.
You might want to wait until all facts & circumstances are presented before such a proclamation.
By all accounts, Rittenhouse did not start the sequence of events, and certainly did not
shoot "...because [he] didn't agree with them.

Read below as to the events that will play out in trial.
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...sted-gun-logic

Know also that of the two dead "...arrest records show Huber was arrested several times on battery,
drugs and other charges. Rosenbaum had an open criminal case on battery, disorderly conduct and
domestic abuse charges, according to the Wisconsin Circuit Court website."

Snopes, as usual, provides additional insight both confirming and disapproving multiple accusation flying back & forth against all involved.
https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/09/...ctims-records/

The only thing I do know, is that nobody here/involved could be considered squeaky clean as to character, intent, action, and least of all- - judgement.

It's a mess. The only people I have absolutely no doubt as to blame, are the "leaders" who have allowed this spreading rioting to get out of control.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-JA1ffd5Ms

But for now, wait for the facts.... both sides.

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Old September 14, 2020, 09:48 PM   #49
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I did a lot of really stupid, and in hindsight embarrassingly idiotic, things when I was 17. Fortunately none of them were as stupid as murdering people on the street because I didn't agree with them.
Who murdered someone?
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Old September 16, 2020, 12:15 PM   #50
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If the protesters hadn't turned violent I doubt anyone would have been shot. But they did and from my point of view some politicians condone this behavior, some want to defund police dept's etc. You have to right to assemble for a peaceful protest, but you do not have the right to be rioting, looting and doing harm to other citizens. This young man should never have been charged. I hope he goes completely free. Lets put the blame on the politicians that condone rioting.
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