Pondering a short shotgun

reaper715 · July 10, 2008, 09:18 PM

Is there any shotgun that is semi automatic that can be shortened to the size of sawed off shotgun (small pistol sized double barrell)?
I know some of them are impossible because of the action.
Or is the only option for a gun that small in a pump action the serbu? Or some type of singleshot or double barrell being cut down? Just thinking about it as a new toy / home defense gun.
P.S. How do you put those quotes or your guns in the bottom of your posts?

GeorgeF · July 10, 2008, 11:13 PM

Ahhhh, one of my dream guns. Check out the 8" version of the 12 gauge Saiga.

http://www.tromix.com/saiga.htm

These are so popular that he is backed up through October. But they are awesome.

reaper715 · July 11, 2008, 12:00 AM

I forgot about those. They are really cool but I wanted something smaller and cheaper like a sawed off double barell or over and under.

Danzig · July 11, 2008, 05:36 AM

Mark Serbu makes a very short model called the super shorty. There is even a thigh holster available for it!

http://www.serbu.com/top/superShorty.php

alien5551 · August 25, 2008, 09:05 AM

I'm coriuos about the recoil from a doble barrelled sawded of or even a pump action sawed off. Is it really so horrible? Can it harm the wrist?

tplumeri · August 25, 2008, 09:11 AM

1 for the super shorty!

PTK · August 25, 2008, 10:12 AM

If it's your first NFA shotgun, I'd suggest just sending in a Form 1 and doing it yourself to a double or single barrel shotgun. That way, it's a relatively inexpensive investment and you get to make it yourself.

My first NFA item was the Stoeger 12ga double barrel pictured.

SDC · August 25, 2008, 10:32 AM

This would be an AOW, if you could get through the import procedure; http://www.tulatskib.ru/boevoe_pdf/OTs62.pdf a 5-shot 12-gauge revolver.

PTK · August 25, 2008, 10:35 AM

I don't believe NFA items can be imported, the 1968 GCA ended that.

alien5551 · August 25, 2008, 04:27 PM

I'd only like to know how you feel about shooting such guns...

SDC · August 25, 2008, 06:23 PM

With a standard shot load, the recoil isn't really too bad, unless you let the muzzle get away from you; you wouldn't want to load one of these up with 3" slugs anyway, and two shots is probably enough for most people to decide that they don't want a REALLY short shotgun. If you get something with a stock on it (like the 14" 870 above), you feel the blast a bit more, but it's still quite controllable, even with slugs.

PTK · August 25, 2008, 10:33 PM

That's a 12.5" 870, for what it's worth.

The recoil is.... brisk.... on my SBSs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlTukwseqyA

Chipperman · August 27, 2008, 03:24 PM

A Benelli should work fine. It's Inertia driven, not Gas operated.

darkgael · August 27, 2008, 03:51 PM

"I'd suggest just sending in a Form 1 and doing it yourself to a double or single barrel shotgun. That way, it's a relatively inexpensive investment and you get to make it yourself. "

Is there a sticky about the procedure for filing the paperwork, etc.? This is VERY interesting. I have a gun that would be a good candidate for an SBS. An AOW...I cannot make one myself, is that correct? At least not from a SG that I own.
How much is a "relatively inexpensive investment", assuming that I already own the firearm?
Pete

Hkmp5sd · August 27, 2008, 04:14 PM

You can make a AOW, just not from a shotgun with a shoulder stock. It costs $200 to make an AOW or SBS, so it doesn't matter.

As to procedure, go to ATF website and download the FORM 1 pdf. Fill it out (including CLEO autograph) in duplicate, include 2 passport photos and a check to ATF for $200. Send the whole deal to ATF and wait for a response. When your form comes back approved, make the gun. As manufacturer, you will need to engrave your name and city on the AOW/SBS.

darkgael · August 27, 2008, 06:20 PM

"just not from a shotgun with a shoulder stock."
Sorry to ask what about may be obvious to others but does that mean if I buy a SD shotgun with a pistol grip, I can covert it? Or is it more involved than that? How would anyone know?
From another thread, on another forum, I was under the impression that the tax stamp for a AOW was only five dollars (http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=49578)
Pete

Hkmp5sd · August 27, 2008, 06:28 PM

A shotgun that has a shoulder stock attached is a shotgun forever and can only be made into a SBS. A shotgun manufactured with only a pistol grip is not technically a shotgun. By definition a "shotgun" is designed to be fired from the shoulder. Obviously a PG shotgun cannot be fired from the shoulder. ATF considers it a "Title One Firearm" instead of a shotgun. This shotgun can be made into either an AOW or a SBS. They would know by checking with the original manufacture to see how the shotgun left the factory.

The $5 is to transfer an existing AOW. It is still $200 to manufacture.

darkgael · August 27, 2008, 09:59 PM

Thanks. That clears things up.
Pete

dchi · September 19, 2008, 04:00 AM

Im a little confused. If I buy a titled AOW, I pay only a $5 tax then I can leaglly put a stock on it latter? If I buy a registered SBS, I pay a $200 tax and can not put on a pistol grip? That doesn't sound right to me. AOW's were alot cheap at the last machingun shoot i went to compared to SBS.

aroundlsu · September 19, 2008, 11:15 AM

AOWs can't have a stock but can have a pistol grip and short barrel. SBSs can have anything including stock and pistol grip. Best route just do the SBS. After filing all the paperwork, setting up a trust or meeting your Sheriff, and waiting months and months the difference between $5 and $200 really isn't that much.

Playboypenguin · September 19, 2008, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Mark Serbu makes a very short model called the super shorty. There is even a thigh holster available for it!

I have always wanted on of those. It only holds two rounds in the magazine so it would be like a double barrel but I still think it would make a good truck or SD gun.

VUPDblue · September 19, 2008, 01:18 PM

Quote:

I have always wanted on of those. It only holds two rounds in the magazine so it would be like a double barrel but I still think it would make a good truck or SD gun.

It makes for a good range toy, but nothing more. It is too unwieldy to be fired within a vehicle or for HD. You will deafen and blind yourself if you use it indoors. I have spent some time behind the trigger of one and it is a hoot for sure, but I'd not want it for serious work. I'd buy one, but I'm holding out for an O/U or SXS AOW

VUPDblue · September 19, 2008, 01:21 PM

Quote:

AOWs can't have a stock but can have a pistol grip and short barrel. SBSs can have anything including stock and pistol grip. Best route just do the SBS. After filing all the paperwork, setting up a trust or meeting your Sheriff, and waiting months and months the difference between $5 and $200 really isn't that much.

I don't necessarily agree with the highlited part. $195 is quite a difference IMHO, but in my state I cannot have a SBS anyway so the AOW is the order of the day! It should also be noted that to MANUFACTURE (via a Form1) the tax is $200 for both. The $5 tax on the AOW applies only to transfers.

pesta2 · September 19, 2008, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Mark Serbu makes a very short model called the super shorty.

I guy I purchase from is a Class III dealers and he had one and let me look at it at a show. It was interesting, 3 shots, 2 in the tube and one in the barrel. At the local gun shows State Police will come in and look around. One State Police really liked it. The forward grip folds down but I think it can stay up and clear the receiver when it is pumped. I had it in the down position. In person it even looks smaller.

July 10, 2008, 09:18 PM	#1
reaper715 Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2006 Location: north georgia Posts: 129	Pondering a short shotgun Is there any shotgun that is semi automatic that can be shortened to the size of sawed off shotgun (small pistol sized double barrell)? I know some of them are impossible because of the action. Or is the only option for a gun that small in a pump action the serbu? Or some type of singleshot or double barrell being cut down? Just thinking about it as a new toy / home defense gun. P.S. How do you put those quotes or your guns in the bottom of your posts?

July 11, 2008, 05:36 AM	#4
Danzig Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2005 Location: Fort Carson, Colorado Posts: 896	Ok..not a semi..but tres cool nonetheless... Mark Serbu makes a very short model called the super shorty. There is even a thigh holster available for it! http://www.serbu.com/top/superShorty.php __________________ Fide et Fortitudine - My family motto "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences of attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it" - Thomas Jefferson

August 25, 2008, 10:32 AM	#8
SDC Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2001 Location: People's Republic of Kanada Posts: 1,652	This would be an AOW, if you could get through the import procedure; http://www.tulatskib.ru/boevoe_pdf/OTs62.pdf a 5-shot 12-gauge revolver. __________________ Gun control in Canada: making the streets safer for rapists, muggers, and other violent criminals since 1936.

August 25, 2008, 06:23 PM	#11
SDC Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2001 Location: People's Republic of Kanada Posts: 1,652	With a standard shot load, the recoil isn't really too bad, unless you let the muzzle get away from you; you wouldn't want to load one of these up with 3" slugs anyway, and two shots is probably enough for most people to decide that they don't want a REALLY short shotgun. If you get something with a stock on it (like the 14" 870 above), you feel the blast a bit more, but it's still quite controllable, even with slugs. __________________ Gun control in Canada: making the streets safer for rapists, muggers, and other violent criminals since 1936.

August 27, 2008, 03:51 PM	#14
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	AOW "I'd suggest just sending in a Form 1 and doing it yourself to a double or single barrel shotgun. That way, it's a relatively inexpensive investment and you get to make it yourself. " Is there a sticky about the procedure for filing the paperwork, etc.? This is VERY interesting. I have a gun that would be a good candidate for an SBS. An AOW...I cannot make one myself, is that correct? At least not from a SG that I own. How much is a "relatively inexpensive investment", assuming that I already own the firearm? Pete

July 10, 2008, 11:13 PM	#2
GeorgeF Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2004 Posts: 572	Ahhhh, one of my dream guns. Check out the 8" version of the 12 gauge Saiga. http://www.tromix.com/saiga.htm These are so popular that he is backed up through October. But they are awesome.

July 11, 2008, 12:00 AM	#3
reaper715 Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2006 Location: north georgia Posts: 129	I forgot about those. They are really cool but I wanted something smaller and cheaper like a sawed off double barell or over and under.

August 25, 2008, 09:05 AM	#5
alien5551 Junior Member Join Date: August 24, 2008 Posts: 8	I'm coriuos about the recoil from a doble barrelled sawded of or even a pump action sawed off. Is it really so horrible? Can it harm the wrist?

August 25, 2008, 09:11 AM	#6
tplumeri Junior member Join Date: September 26, 2007 Posts: 1,919	1 for the super shorty!

August 25, 2008, 10:12 AM	#7
PTK Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Posts: 442	If it's your first NFA shotgun, I'd suggest just sending in a Form 1 and doing it yourself to a double or single barrel shotgun. That way, it's a relatively inexpensive investment and you get to make it yourself. My first NFA item was the Stoeger 12ga double barrel pictured.

August 25, 2008, 10:35 AM	#9
PTK Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Posts: 442	I don't believe NFA items can be imported, the 1968 GCA ended that.

August 25, 2008, 04:27 PM	#10
alien5551 Junior Member Join Date: August 24, 2008 Posts: 8	I'd only like to know how you feel about shooting such guns...

August 25, 2008, 10:33 PM	#12
PTK Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Posts: 442	That's a 12.5" 870, for what it's worth. The recoil is.... brisk.... on my SBSs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlTukwseqyA

August 27, 2008, 03:24 PM	#13
Chipperman Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2000 Location: Live Free or Die, Baby! Posts: 1,550	A Benelli should work fine. It's Inertia driven, not Gas operated.

August 27, 2008, 04:14 PM	#15
Hkmp5sd Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2001 Location: Winter Haven, Florida Posts: 4,303	You can make a AOW, just not from a shotgun with a shoulder stock. It costs $200 to make an AOW or SBS, so it doesn't matter. As to procedure, go to ATF website and download the FORM 1 pdf. Fill it out (including CLEO autograph) in duplicate, include 2 passport photos and a check to ATF for $200. Send the whole deal to ATF and wait for a response. When your form comes back approved, make the gun. As manufacturer, you will need to engrave your name and city on the AOW/SBS. Last edited by Hkmp5sd; August 27, 2008 at 06:38 PM. Reason: Spelling

August 27, 2008, 06:20 PM	#16
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	ATF "just not from a shotgun with a shoulder stock." Sorry to ask what about may be obvious to others but does that mean if I buy a SD shotgun with a pistol grip, I can covert it? Or is it more involved than that? How would anyone know? From another thread, on another forum, I was under the impression that the tax stamp for a AOW was only five dollars (http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=49578) Pete

August 27, 2008, 06:28 PM	#17
Hkmp5sd Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2001 Location: Winter Haven, Florida Posts: 4,303	A shotgun that has a shoulder stock attached is a shotgun forever and can only be made into a SBS. A shotgun manufactured with only a pistol grip is not technically a shotgun. By definition a "shotgun" is designed to be fired from the shoulder. Obviously a PG shotgun cannot be fired from the shoulder. ATF considers it a "Title One Firearm" instead of a shotgun. This shotgun can be made into either an AOW or a SBS. They would know by checking with the original manufacture to see how the shotgun left the factory. The $5 is to transfer an existing AOW. It is still $200 to manufacture.

August 27, 2008, 09:59 PM	#18
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	AOW Thanks. That clears things up. Pete

September 19, 2008, 04:00 AM	#19
dchi Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2007 Posts: 170	Im a little confused. If I buy a titled AOW, I pay only a $5 tax then I can leaglly put a stock on it latter? If I buy a registered SBS, I pay a $200 tax and can not put on a pistol grip? That doesn't sound right to me. AOW's were alot cheap at the last machingun shoot i went to compared to SBS.

September 19, 2008, 11:15 AM	#20
aroundlsu Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 156	AOWs can't have a stock but can have a pistol grip and short barrel. SBSs can have anything including stock and pistol grip. Best route just do the SBS. After filing all the paperwork, setting up a trust or meeting your Sheriff, and waiting months and months the difference between $5 and $200 really isn't that much.