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Old February 1, 2012, 07:48 PM   #1
baddarryl
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Alternatives when you can't carry?

What have you guys found are the best non lethal alternatives to carry when unable to CC due to regulations and what not? Thanks.
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Old February 1, 2012, 08:34 PM   #2
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sabre pepper spray
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Old February 1, 2012, 08:46 PM   #3
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Here in IL ive gotten in the habit of holding my car key in my fist.

I should get a rape whistle.

with the attitude turned off- you'd probably be best served with a high quality pepper spray.

Martial arts is good too. Wish i could say i practiced, maybe someday. I cant afford it right now.
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Old February 1, 2012, 08:59 PM   #4
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I have a little insignificant looking "Old Timer" 3 blade pocket knife.

The 2 1/2 in blade on it can be practically razor sharp, . . . and has a super sharp point.

More than once it has been opened, palmed, and I go on about my business. It is unfortunately only an "up close an in your face" weapon, . . . but I always figured that a sharp knife was a better defense than any vocabulary if it really got down to the knitty gritty.

I'll also open it, . . . drop it point first into my shirt pocket, . . . and it is handy at that point.

An old WW2 sailor from Oakland, Ca. taught me about it.

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Old February 1, 2012, 09:12 PM   #5
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Cane.
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Old February 1, 2012, 09:57 PM   #6
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Not non-lethal, but even without a CCW you can often carry a knife up to 5" (depending on state/local laws).
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Old February 1, 2012, 10:24 PM   #7
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A good bright tactical, I hate that overused word, flashlite will blind a person temporarily, possibly giving you a chance to get away. I tried mine in broad daylite & I saw big spots for 10 minutes!
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Old February 1, 2012, 10:32 PM   #8
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If I am unable to carry a dedicated weapon, I usually don't bother with anything else. I have a bandanna, I know how to use it like a fighting chain. It's not perfect, and I'd likely never use it. I have a lot of Martial Arts/Combatives training so I don't feel uncomfortable.
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Old February 2, 2012, 06:20 AM   #9
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Hide Away Knife. Great quality and several different carry options. This company makes great stuff.
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Old February 2, 2012, 09:47 AM   #10
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Knife, awareness...just a change of weapon.
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Old February 2, 2012, 12:33 PM   #11
Don H
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"non lethal alternatives"? I think just about anything that could serve as a weapon would likely be lethal under the correct (even if rare) circumstances. "Less lethal" would probably be a more accurate term.
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Old February 2, 2012, 12:49 PM   #12
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A number of the newer ball point pens are extremely sharp.
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Old February 2, 2012, 04:21 PM   #13
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I have a small lock-blade knife,,,

It only has a 1.25" blade,,,
But it's very sharp.

It's on my key chain and it comes to hand very readily,,,
If someone were to physically assault me,,,
I'm hoping to get one good swipe,,,
Preferably in the femoral area,,,
Or wherever big veins will be.

Any time I am walking towards my car,,,
it doesn't matter day or night,,,
That knife is in my hand,,,
It's my key chain fob.

In February following 911,,,
I had to fly to Boston.

I was not happy about getting on a plane at that time,,,
Especially as I knew they wouldn't allow me to have my "weapons".

So I wore Levi's with the heaviest trophy buckle I owned,,,
The belt is a weapon most people don't consider,,,
But as a short flail it's quite effective.

Most people will laugh at the thought,,,
But I will take on just about any box knife wielder,,,
If I have 18 or so inches of leather with a big buckle on the end of it.

My Black Belt has turned gray from 30+ years of disuse,,,
But I do recall the effective belt/sash techniques Mr. Chan taught us.

I may be old and getting fatter by the minute,,,
But I am never ever totally unarmed.

Just wait until I start to use a cane.

Aarond

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Old February 2, 2012, 05:14 PM   #14
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Old February 3, 2012, 01:06 AM   #15
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If possible, I carry a knife. If that's a no go, then it's just me and my terrible fighting skills. Years of training and I'm still a bad boxer and a worse wrestler. Oh well, I fight dirty, so maybe that will help.
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Old February 3, 2012, 02:19 AM   #16
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Luckily, I live in Missouri and have lenient gun laws. I have only been carrying since April 2011 and don't see myself giving it up. I learned very effective self defense techniques from a former Navy seal. I learned S.C.A.R.S. if any of you are familiar with it, than you know how effective it can be.

Unfortunately, a disc in my lower back has degenerated and herniated so bad that I can no longer work or go a day without excruciating pain. So hand to hand combat is really no longer an option for me.
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Old February 3, 2012, 07:39 AM   #17
Don P
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Quote:
What have you guys found are the best non lethal alternatives to carry when unable to CC due to regulations and what not? Thanks
The places I go that I can't carry are well protected by LE. ( Court house,LE sub station,) other than that I carry. Can't even get a 1" blade pocket knife through security so there or no options in that situation
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Old February 3, 2012, 03:31 PM   #18
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I once stuck a guy with a pencil, he was wanting to re arrange my face....

In public, I take a dog on a leash But really, most folks see my smile and they smile too.

A good walking stick does the trick, a shelaylee is in order as I do have one and yes it is kelly green with little knobby items upon it that will leave a mark on whatever encounters it....
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Old February 3, 2012, 10:18 PM   #19
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Broke my leg a few years back doing dumb stuff and my wife got me one of these:



Cold Steel Shillelagh




Still have the limp, and also the cane.
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Old February 5, 2012, 03:09 PM   #20
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I typically carry a Leatherman Wave which I can expose a blade with one hand. Or I can use it as a kubaton if I keep i closed.

Also I fell in love with the Zebra F-701 Stainless Steel Ballpoint Pen I found at Staples a few years back. I carry it everywhere I go.



But it's hard to find lately.

By the way, just because it's not a gun does not mean it is "non lethal"
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Old February 5, 2012, 08:42 PM   #21
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Oh God....

While I'd love to say Martial Arts is you best choice (helps keep you healthy too) Unfortunatly this is not true for most.

Why? Because most people attend a 1 1/2 hour class 2 times a week. Thats 3 hours a week. Lets think about this a bit.

The average highschol wrestler practices for 2 hours a day 5 days a week. I'd go so far as to say that 17 year old senior would kick the snot out of your karate/Jujitsu/etc. There is just not enough time to become proficient in martial arts unless you make a lifestile out of it.

I can vouch that karate does not beat wresteling, Got into a friendly bet with a guy at a party (I was 18 and 140 lbs he was 23 and 180ish). He had dozens karate trophies aroung his place (hed been doing karate since he was a kid). He kicked the crap out of me standing up, but the second I got him on the groung it was game over. That was out of somone who was extreamly proficient at karate.

Peperspray, tazer/pocket knife are generally the second best choices.

But the best by far: SITUATIONAL AWARNESS!!! See them coming, get out of the way!
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Old February 5, 2012, 08:50 PM   #22
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I guess I had the best of both worlds. I wrestled varsity in college and took Judo while in USAF. Of course, those were my younger days. Now, at 75, I depend heavily on weapons, as well a large dose of treachery, guile, and dirty tricks.
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Old February 5, 2012, 11:47 PM   #23
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bk688, while I don't want to start an argument, you prove you are only half right. Like you said, it was a friendly bet, and thus he wasn't determined to outright break something or punch you in the throat. You are indeed right that many who practice arts that are solely upright lack skill on the ground. I myself am one of those but that has simply been availability to train.

From a personal standpoint, knowing both is important. More importantly knowing to defend on both the ground and standing and getting away safely. For me, ground fighting defeats the purpose. You are purposely staying in contact with your opponent and while on the ground you are more susceptible to attacks from other people. As well, I'd rather not be in a position where my opponent can slam my head into anything more solid. Mats aren't on every floor. Just my opinions.

Yes, martial arts take a long time to gain ranks or be proficient, but in reality that's only a mindset issue. Learning to punch, block, and kick are the basics, you need only these. Knees and elbows are the same. In ground fighting you learn the different positions and basic locks. Once you know them it's only practice that makes them work. Just like shooting, you may know how to do it, but it's practice that makes you good. On the other side of things, Modern Combatives are a more "no-nonsense" choice based solely on defense and made to be taught in a timely manner.
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Old February 8, 2012, 08:34 AM   #24
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Staying fit and knowing how to fight......dirty.......real dirty.

(Credit to Irish for saying this first.)
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Old February 8, 2012, 08:56 PM   #25
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The mental willingness to keep fighting and not give up is also an important tool, probably as much as martial skill. It doesn't take any skill to hit the groin, throat, eyes etc... It takes a willingness to harm, hurt, maim or kill your your attacker. To me, that's were fighting "dirty" comes into play.

It comes up in jiu-jitsu all the time, can you pull of the movements necessary when someone is attacking you. It's a lot tougher to submit or control someone when they are throwing punches with hostile intent. That's why it's best 90% of the time to keep yourself on your feet and control the fight from there if possible. Once your on the ground all sorts of bad things can happen, especially if more than one threats are present.
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