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January 4, 2013, 04:20 AM | #1 |
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New Rimfire: .17 Winchester Super Magnum
The subject line pretty much says it all.
Winchester has had a few gun writers hinting about a new "ultra fast" rimfire cartridge, for a few months. At least one has finally spilled the beans: New Raging Rimfire: .17 Winchester Super Magnum .17 Winchester Super Magnum will soon be the new kid on the block. Vital statistics: .17 caliber 3,000 fps with a 20 gr bullet Based on the cases for .27 caliber 'powder-actuated' ("Hilti") gun blanks. High pressure (for a rimfire) - 33,000 psi First factory loads: 20 gr bullet @ 3,000 fps / 25 gr bullet @ 2,600 fps First rifle will be from Savage. Likely official roll-out: SHOT Show. I have to give some credit to Cornbush, at this time. He and I had a pretty in-depth discussion, about a month ago, about what we thought this cartridge would be. While I thought it would be a .20 caliber, high-pressure, bottleneck cartridge, pushing 3,000 fps with a 25 gr bullet, and first offered in a Savage; he was pretty firmly set on .17 caliber and the use of the .27 caliber blanks as the 'parent' cartridge (and agreeing that 3,000 fps was the target to hit, and Savage would be the first to offer a rifle.). I have to say... we were both on the right track, but HE nailed it.
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January 4, 2013, 07:15 AM | #2 |
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I can't make myself come up with a reason for a .17 cal? I owned a really nice .17 HMR and enjoyed shooting it but found my .22 magnum much more useful. Guess it depends on what one considers useful. Don't know why but I've often thought about a .204 ruger.
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January 4, 2013, 01:40 PM | #3 |
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Velocity is where it is at these days, but I can't help but think Elmer Keith might have had a good idea when he said he would have preferred a return of the .25 Stevens Long to the .22 magnum.
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January 4, 2013, 02:22 PM | #4 |
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looks fun but I had a 17hmr, yea I know this is no hmr, and would like to see a 20 cal
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January 4, 2013, 03:03 PM | #5 |
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My rimfire 17 is a Mach 2, & it does all I need for a rimfire 17 ( of course I have a 17 Hornet, & a 17 Fireball )
if they use that case & did a rimfire .20, I might have to make that jump though, just because I'm not shooting a .20 bore yet
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January 4, 2013, 06:43 PM | #6 | |
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I don't like .17 caliber. It's already enough of an expense, feeding my .22 WMR (still cheaper than almost anything else 'more powerful' than .22 LR, though). And, well... I have no use for .17 caliber. If it was a .20, offered in the Ruger 77/22 Hornet action, I would care more. But, as a .17, and probably only available from Savage for the first 6-12 months... my attention has already started to drift.
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January 4, 2013, 11:59 PM | #7 |
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I think it looks cool but I doubt ill get one. If I was to go with a 17 caliber it would be a 17 Remington. Nothing like 4000+ fps. I still may some day get an encore barrel for the 17 Remington.
Personally I shoot rimfires to shoot for cheep. The 22lr is about as cheep as it gets. If I wanted more power (or accuracy) I think I would go with a center fire. I am sure it will sell well, its just not for me
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January 5, 2013, 12:24 AM | #8 | |
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What are these zipper-rounds used for? They're so small I wouldn't think they range very well due to wind/BC, but they're so fast I wouldn't think they'd penetrate game very well. Are they just for vaporizing ground hogs and squirrels like HMR? They're cool as hell, from design standpoint, almost like a directed energy weapon or particle beam. I just can't think of a reason to convince myself to buy one TCB
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January 5, 2013, 02:27 AM | #9 | |
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They're quite effective on small targets, and rampaging paper... but that's about it. This one just adds some more velocity into the equation.
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January 5, 2013, 06:03 AM | #10 |
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What market/purpose is this aimed at?
Filling a gap between 17hmr and 17fireball? Seems to be less use than a 17fireball too. I can imagine the price of ammo is going to be pretty high, and being a rimfire its non reloadable. Looks like a bad alternative to 204ruger. Wonder how the noise and kick would compare to a 204ruger. If i was a betting man I'd bet it goes the same way as the WSSM cartridges. |
January 5, 2013, 10:59 AM | #11 | |
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I'm not gonna bash on the new .17 though. IMO too fast for small game, still a little light for coyotes but what it will make is a great fox, crow and ground hog gun for the open farm country I hunt. I was thinkin about a .17 centerfire for years for exactly those critters, the new rimfire moved to the top as long as a gun is available in the $300 (+/-) range, hopefully some Savage and Marlin BA's. |
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January 5, 2013, 11:33 AM | #12 |
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I have no interest in 17 calibre
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January 5, 2013, 01:53 PM | #13 |
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Wow! That's a 30% velocity increase over the HMR, enough to sway a lot of 17 cal loving people to a new rifle. Rhetorical question: why not a 22 caliber version? Or a 20 caliber? Hmmmm.
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January 5, 2013, 02:54 PM | #14 |
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According to the article it says ammo should be around 30cents a round.
Cheaper than dirt has 17hmr ammo for on average $14 for 50, thats 28cents a round. If in reality the costs are that close, it might end up being a hit. I don't know how much you can reload 204ruger/223 for? But decent quality reloads must be more than that. |
January 5, 2013, 03:01 PM | #15 |
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Decent centerfire reloads are below that price, $.20-$.25 each using brand name bullets. But that's neither here nor there. Most folks don't want to reload (or need to for that matter) and for them the new .17 will be cheaper.
I'm a handloader but for a varmint and fox gun I'd rather buy ammo for $15/50 than to make it for $10/50. Easy, no brainer decision. |
January 5, 2013, 05:31 PM | #16 |
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I really don't see any money being made out of this. It makes no sense.
They would be much more successful if they would simply resurrect the 5mm rimfire. A cartridge that would require no R&D to revamp. I keep scratching my head and wondering why such a simple move would almost certianly be a highly sucessful move, will not be seriously considered. Taurus and Aquila were the only ones who attempted the move hoping that the rest of the industry would follow their lead. It still stands out as the best varminting rimfire ever made. Or maybe I am mistaken and the market is dominated by young pups who have never even heard of the cartridge. |
January 5, 2013, 09:08 PM | #17 |
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kinda of neat...
bet its going to be expensive with the new brass design. Probably a lot more sensisble options. I will probably just keep my .17 HMR because its kills what I shoot at. |
January 6, 2013, 05:39 AM | #18 | ||
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January 6, 2013, 09:08 AM | #19 |
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A 20cal. [ 5mm] would have been cool. Just not impressed with the 17 maybe this one will be better .
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January 6, 2013, 05:05 PM | #20 | |
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January 6, 2013, 11:25 PM | #21 |
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looks cool, but the .17 Hornet from Hornady is reloadable...
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January 7, 2013, 01:28 AM | #22 |
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I have no experience with a 17.
I'm not in the market for one. There are some situations where a "whiffle bullet" might be useful,one that would blow up on contact with anything.That might be better than a lower vel,more substantial bullet skipping off across country. It would be a bad idea to get a false sense of security about it,though. Downrange still needs to be safe and clear. |
January 7, 2013, 01:30 AM | #23 |
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I think it was smart of them to use 27 cal brass. It has been in production for construction use for decades. The brass is already made strong enough for the pressure and it should be cheap to produce. Just buy brass for the powder actuated nailer and load it for the new cartridge. A simple forming die is all they need.
I don't need a 17, but a 22 would be nice.
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January 7, 2013, 11:46 AM | #24 | ||
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Quote:
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January 7, 2013, 04:42 PM | #25 | |
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I anticipate at least 80% of the offered rifles to be built on existing short action designs where you currently find the .22 Hornet and similar cartridges (such as the Savage 25 and Ruger 77/22H). The remaining rifles might be a 'stretched' variant of an existing rimfire design. That would keep the cost of the rifles down, but only if they can still deal with the higher pressure and increased bolt thrust.
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