Remington Rand 1911a1

meatgrinder42 · May 27, 2012, 06:11 PM

I got a phone call from my brother this afternoon who sells guns at a Gander Mountain. He told me a guy came in with what he called a 1911a1 remington rand. I know the gun exists and my brother was well aware of their value. When he sent me a picture of it I couldn't help but notice it was missing the three initials of an armorer approval under the slide release, it didn't have any other ordinance marks. All the ones I've seen had 'property of U.S. Government' on the frames. It did have the 'p' behind the mag release and the slide looked correct.

I told him to be leery of it. Was I right in telling him this or did I mess up a good buy for him?

James K · May 27, 2012, 06:47 PM

Many GIs or others who came into possession of GI pistols ground off the US Property marking, thinking that would keep them from being prosecuted for theft or receiving stolen property. While that is not likely to happen, the removal of any markings on those pistols reduces the value from a valuable collectors item to a shooter. To get a better idea of what the gun is, post good pics of both sides and someone will try to help with more info.

Jim

meatgrinder42 · May 27, 2012, 09:52 PM

I know what the gun is or what the guy said it was supposed to be. I'm asking if its normal to see remington rand 1911a1 pistols without armorer marks on the frame. And I cannot supply pics when the gun isn't in my possession.

Jim Watson · May 27, 2012, 10:36 PM

The answer is no.

A LEGITIMATE Remington Rand without an inspector's stamp or US Property mark would be highly unusual. For it to lack those but have the P would be extremely highly unusual. So unusual that it would be the seller's responsibility to say just how it came about and to document it, if he wants a big price for it.

Don't you and your brother go into this pre-sold on a tall story. I don't have to prove anything, you and he don't have to prove anything, it is up to the guy trying to put it off on you to prove one of the very very small ways for such a gun to exist.

I must ask, does it even have a serial number?

meatgrinder42 · May 28, 2012, 08:29 AM

The p on the frame behind the mag release was there. But no other marks. It did have a serial number but when I checked it against one of my books it didn't exist. The pistol was not bought. I had my brother explain to him that while the slide checked out as a real rand slide it had been modified, the barrel did not have the 'hc' on its shoulder, the trigger wasn't original (it was adjustable) and the frame was was missing too many distinguishing marks. I guess the man blew a fit and walked out but never tried to explain how it was a real rand or anything.

Thanks Jim.

Willie Sutton · May 28, 2012, 09:35 AM

Sounds like a parts gun built up on a generic frame. No biggie.

Willie

.

James K · May 28, 2012, 01:14 PM

It may be a "biggie" in three ways. If that frame was made after 1968 and has no serial number, it is illegal. If the frame is original and the serial number has been removed or altered, it is illegal.

Regardless, the gun is NOT original and NOT worth what a genuine, unaltered WWII R-R M1911A1 should bring.

It is the OP's decision, but I would not spend money on a gun that could get me in deep doo-doo.

Jim

gyvel · May 29, 2012, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Sounds like a parts gun built up on a generic frame. No biggie.

Except that the frame had a "P" stamped on it behind the mag release. (Unless someone hand stamped it.)

May 27, 2012, 06:11 PM	#1
meatgrinder42 Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2011 Location: Good Ol' Wisconsin Posts: 327	Remington Rand 1911a1 I got a phone call from my brother this afternoon who sells guns at a Gander Mountain. He told me a guy came in with what he called a 1911a1 remington rand. I know the gun exists and my brother was well aware of their value. When he sent me a picture of it I couldn't help but notice it was missing the three initials of an armorer approval under the slide release, it didn't have any other ordinance marks. All the ones I've seen had 'property of U.S. Government' on the frames. It did have the 'p' behind the mag release and the slide looked correct. I told him to be leery of it. Was I right in telling him this or did I mess up a good buy for him? __________________ When I die better bury me deep, two .45s layin' at my feet, An M16 across my chest, tell Chesty Puller I did my best

May 27, 2012, 09:52 PM	#3
meatgrinder42 Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2011 Location: Good Ol' Wisconsin Posts: 327	I know what the gun is or what the guy said it was supposed to be. I'm asking if its normal to see remington rand 1911a1 pistols without armorer marks on the frame. And I cannot supply pics when the gun isn't in my possession. __________________ When I die better bury me deep, two .45s layin' at my feet, An M16 across my chest, tell Chesty Puller I did my best

May 28, 2012, 08:29 AM	#5
meatgrinder42 Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2011 Location: Good Ol' Wisconsin Posts: 327	The p on the frame behind the mag release was there. But no other marks. It did have a serial number but when I checked it against one of my books it didn't exist. The pistol was not bought. I had my brother explain to him that while the slide checked out as a real rand slide it had been modified, the barrel did not have the 'hc' on its shoulder, the trigger wasn't original (it was adjustable) and the frame was was missing too many distinguishing marks. I guess the man blew a fit and walked out but never tried to explain how it was a real rand or anything. Thanks Jim. __________________ When I die better bury me deep, two .45s layin' at my feet, An M16 across my chest, tell Chesty Puller I did my best

May 27, 2012, 06:47 PM	#2
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Many GIs or others who came into possession of GI pistols ground off the US Property marking, thinking that would keep them from being prosecuted for theft or receiving stolen property. While that is not likely to happen, the removal of any markings on those pistols reduces the value from a valuable collectors item to a shooter. To get a better idea of what the gun is, post good pics of both sides and someone will try to help with more info. Jim

May 27, 2012, 10:36 PM	#4
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,542	The answer is no. A LEGITIMATE Remington Rand without an inspector's stamp or US Property mark would be highly unusual. For it to lack those but have the P would be extremely highly unusual. So unusual that it would be the seller's responsibility to say just how it came about and to document it, if he wants a big price for it. Don't you and your brother go into this pre-sold on a tall story. I don't have to prove anything, you and he don't have to prove anything, it is up to the guy trying to put it off on you to prove one of the very very small ways for such a gun to exist. I must ask, does it even have a serial number?

May 28, 2012, 09:35 AM	#6
Willie Sutton Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2012 Posts: 1,066	Sounds like a parts gun built up on a generic frame. No biggie. Willie .

May 28, 2012, 01:14 PM	#7
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	It may be a "biggie" in three ways. If that frame was made after 1968 and has no serial number, it is illegal. If the frame is original and the serial number has been removed or altered, it is illegal. Regardless, the gun is NOT original and NOT worth what a genuine, unaltered WWII R-R M1911A1 should bring. It is the OP's decision, but I would not spend money on a gun that could get me in deep doo-doo. Jim