What "type" of gun do you use to introduce newbies?

aarondhgraham · June 25, 2020, 12:16 PM

What "type" of gun do you use to introduce newbies?

Notice that I asked for "type" of gun,,,
Not a particular make/model.

I used to take several types for them to try,,,
But in recent times I've narrowed it down to two types.

DA/SA revolver with an exposed hammer
DA/SA semi-auto with an exposed hammer

First, I want them to learn what the terms single-action and double-action mean.

Second, I want them to know how to manually de-cock both the revolver and semi-auto.

Third, I want them to know what happens when you de-cock both types of handguns.

I feel that if they first learn how to handle an exposed hammer handgun,,,
They could then transition to striker fire or internal hammer DAO more easily.

Not so easily if it's the other way around.

Right now my go-to handguns for newbies are:

S&W Model 63 revolver.
Bersa Thunder 22 Pistol.

I've had good results with these two fiery-arms,,,
Kinda like learning to drive with a stick-shift transmission.

What type of guns do you prefer to use when introducing a newbie?

Aarond

.

Pahoo · June 25, 2020, 12:25 PM

Quote:

What type of guns do you prefer to use when introducing a newbie?

My introductory choice and recommendation, is always a DA/SA revolver with an exposé hammer. ….

Be Safe !!!

Onward Allusion · June 25, 2020, 12:32 PM

Always a DA/SA revolver with exposed hammer chambered in 22LR.

5whiskey · June 25, 2020, 12:57 PM

In a perfect world, I would probably do the first introduction with a DA/SA .22lr revolver. I taught my daughters on a SA semi-auto in .22 (Astra 4000). Why? It’s what I had. They moved up to DA/SA in 9mm pretty quickly. With mild handloads.

sigarms228 · June 25, 2020, 01:27 PM

M&P 22 Compact or Browning Buckmark. I want them to start out not having to worry about loud muzzle blast or major recoil (from a new shooter's perspective) while they learn the basics. Pretty much everyone enjoys shooting a 22 pistol and if they don't enjoy the shooting experience it mat very well be their last shooting experience.

**44 AMP** · June 25, 2020, 01:57 PM

What type for complete beginners?

SINGLE SHOT

T/C Contender in .22LR.

It teaches the value ( and the work involved) in every single shot. Repeaters are something to be earned.

I realize a lot of you don't have a good, or any single shots, but you should.

Nick_C_S · June 25, 2020, 02:10 PM

If it's an adult, I almost always start them out with my S&W 686 4" bbl. It's simple to operate (I train before going to the range). It has a good amount of weight (tame recoil), is well balanced (easy to hold sight picture), and I load it with light 38 Special ammo (at first, at least).

I'm a firm believer that wheel guns are the best way for first-timers to put a few downrange.

cslinger · June 25, 2020, 02:11 PM

Depends on what they gravitate to or have a perceived desire for. In a vacuum a .22 semi auto pistol or bolt action .22 rifle.

The MAIN THING I do with new shooters is ONLY LOAD A SINGLE CARTRIDGE for the first bit of learning, however long that takes. This ensures that if they get scared and freak out at a shot and drop the gun it will be empty or if they swing left or right off the firing line it is more likely to be empty etc. etc.

I also tend to try and OVER EMPHASIZE the noise and blast they will experience and UNDER EMPHASIZE the recoil as most folks expect .500 magnum recoil but theater level noise when in reality the exact opposite is generally the case. If I can mentally prepare them for the noise the rest is gravy, unless you are doing something stupid like teaching on a scandium .357 or .44 or something else ludicrous.

seanc · June 25, 2020, 02:23 PM

Pellet guns. I have fairly accurate pellet guns, either pistol or rifle. I want it to be fun. I want them to want to do it again. I want them to not be afraid of pulling the trigger and to learn what a good trigger pull is. Then I make fun of their "group" and make some pointers on sight alignment and trigger pull.

Before I go to real guns, I have a Crosman 2240 that does have a little push to it and is very accurate. Then I go on to real guns like cslinger said, 1 round at a time and lots of dry fire at the range between live fire.

5whiskey · June 25, 2020, 02:42 PM

I thought we were focusing on pistol. I have ALWAYS started a new shooter on a .22 rifle. Usually a marlin model 60, only 5 rounds allowed to be loaded at the time. For my youngest daughter I’ve acquired a youth bolt action .22

FITASC · June 25, 2020, 02:51 PM

^^^^ Yep, rifle first, single shot preferred, depending on the age of the new shooter. When my kids started at the age of 6, it was a Marlin 15YN, aka Lil Buckaroo single shot rifle; THEN they moved on to semi rifles and then my Ruger MKII.

Pahoo · June 25, 2020, 02:55 PM

Quote:

What "type" of gun do you use to introduce newbies?

Aren't glad, you asked? As typical, this thread is starting to go south. ….

"When all else fails, read the directions !!!!"

Be Safe !!!

stinkeypete · June 25, 2020, 02:57 PM

Air rifle. Seanc has it right.

Air rifle to .22 rifle... learn the basics, learn to control the muzzle, don’t worry about inducing flinches. Maybe progress to very light centerfire rifle loads, maybe shoot shotgun a little.

In my opinion, the biggest problems with pistols is that it is so darned easy to lose attention for one second resulting in pointing at self or other things that would not be okay to shoot from negligence.

Air gun pistol to .22 contender would be best because of the long barrel helping the noobie keep that muzzle pointed safe. As I sold my contender, .22 single action. Identify target, cock hammer, aim, fire, repeat.

Then semi-auto .22 because it’s easier to work on accuracy. Then build up to larger caliber and finally double action revolver or da/sa semi auto as maintaining smooth trigger control is the hardest skill after flawlessly following all safety rules in my opinion.

Really, did anyone here NOT start out with a BB gun?

cslinger · June 25, 2020, 03:19 PM

I guess technically I started with a BB gun but honestly I think my first firearm shooting was either a 1911 or an M16 at around 7ish. Yes I said M16 and not AR15. I grew up with family heavily into class 3 stuff so I got to shoot a great deal of that type of stuff fairly early on. NO MY FIRST OUTINGS WERE NOT WITH THE HAPPY SWITCH TO JOHN WICK.

As for airguns I don’t disagree. They can be a great stepping stone. But have their own quirks that don’t translate. It really depends on the new shooter in question, their age, physical abilities and desires.

Honestly the vast number of common firearms don’t recoil that much as to hinder teaching new adult shooters. I find I just need to get them through the boom and pressure wave so to speak.

Again I wouldn’t pull out the trusty .50AE or 7lb 300 Win Mag or something silly but most firearms lend themselves to teaching new adult shooters with the right instruction and additional safety considerations.

Kids are a different story where the tool itself matters far more.

Like I said in an ideal world with most new shooters a .22 rifle and subsequently a .22 pistol. Airgun technique, at least spring/gas ram, doesn’t readily translate to firearms. It will teach trigger control and follow through and is great for safety but for a total newbie I don’t want them going into firearms using a light hold like that necessary for the airguns.

Honestly nobody is giving any WRONG answers.

Ignition Override · June 25, 2020, 03:21 PM

Mostly a .22LR handgun.

What can be difficult to determine is Whether a person has ever tried shooting before, and if so, did they receive any safety instruction?

People are sometimes not clear about their level of exposure, or what they remember.

TailGator · June 25, 2020, 03:23 PM

I start folks with a semi because I (horrors!) don't own a .22 revolver. I move them on to heavy center fire pistols and get them real comfortable with that before I let them shoot anything light, as in pistols I actually carry.

cslinger · June 25, 2020, 03:28 PM

Quote:

I (horrors!) don't own a .22 revolver.

I stand corrected there is a wrong answer here.

aarondhgraham · June 25, 2020, 05:14 PM

I have a friend who is my complete opposite,,,
He likes to start newbies with a striker fired semi-auto.

His thinking is they are "fool proof" in their method of operation,,,
The optimal "point and click interface" he says.

He also thinks that training a newbie on a revolver is a waste of time,,,
I tell him that he has no respect for history or tradition.

He is also a Millennial who can't drive a manual transmission,,,
He truly doesn't think he's missing out on anything.

I disagree with him in most things,,,
But I don't try to change his mind either.

Aarond

.

FITASC · June 25, 2020, 06:47 PM

^^^ LOL

rodfac · June 26, 2020, 07:05 AM

.22 LR revolver...I have three of them: Ruger Single Six, S&W Model 18, and a Colt Diamondback. Low recoil and no auto-reloading function to worry about while teaching the basics of safety, sight alignment/picture etc. After a session or two, we go to an auto-loader and teach the basic manual of arms vs. that of a revolver and also the add'l safety considerations: gun's always loading itself, trigger finger off the trigger until aligned with target, use of 'safety', et.al. Guns include: Colt Woodsman, Ruger Mkll, Smith 41, 1911 with .22 upper, and a Sig P226 with the .22 exchange caliber unit installed.

If applicable, we go to a 9mm or .32 H&R when they're ready.

For the most part, we shoot steel from 10 yds as well as plain white paper plates but when they've demonstrated a little proficiency, we shoot BBQ briquettes at 10 yds...gives a satisfying "explosion" of dust, is a challenging target, and they're cheap!!!

YMMv, Rod

aarondhgraham · June 26, 2020, 11:08 AM

I like the idea of BBQ briquettes as a fun reactive target,,,
I'm gonna have to try those out.

I usually use one of the human-like targets to start with,,,
They are large enough to see every shot,,,
Even if it's way off center.

Something like this,,,

I've only had one person (a guy),,,
Who was uncomfortable shooting at a human silhouette.

Aarond

.

Hawg · June 26, 2020, 11:14 AM

Single action .22 revolver.

cslinger · June 26, 2020, 11:57 AM

As far as shooting at a silhouette target goes my only objection is that it gives such a large, fairly cluttered target to shoot. I prefer round shoot and see’s of various sizes or a simple outlined white circle or square. This lets me get shooters to focus on a very defined point and size and or range can be adjusted as necessary. Aim small, miss small as cliche as it is really does pay some dividends in my experience.

Drm50 · June 26, 2020, 12:10 PM

M34 S&W
STD Ruger auto....both 22s

SIGSHR · June 26, 2020, 01:23 PM

Yes, I have never owned a 22LR revolver. A 38/357 loaded with wadcutters is a good substitute. Since semi automatics seem to more prevalent these days in instructing a new shooter I emphathize that the safety is engaged after EVERY shot and they get a good sight picture THEN they release the safety.

June 25, 2020, 12:16 PM	#1
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 8,638	What "type" of gun do you use to introduce newbies? What "type" of gun do you use to introduce newbies? Notice that I asked for "type" of gun,,, Not a particular make/model. I used to take several types for them to try,,, But in recent times I've narrowed it down to two types. DA/SA revolver with an exposed hammer DA/SA semi-auto with an exposed hammer First, I want them to learn what the terms single-action and double-action mean. Second, I want them to know how to manually de-cock both the revolver and semi-auto. Third, I want them to know what happens when you de-cock both types of handguns. I feel that if they first learn how to handle an exposed hammer handgun,,, They could then transition to striker fire or internal hammer DAO more easily. Not so easily if it's the other way around. Right now my go-to handguns for newbies are: S&W Model 63 revolver. Bersa Thunder 22 Pistol. I've had good results with these two fiery-arms,,, Kinda like learning to drive with a stick-shift transmission. What type of guns do you prefer to use when introducing a newbie? Aarond . __________________ Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)

June 25, 2020, 12:32 PM	#3
Onward Allusion Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2009 Location: Back in a Non-Free State Posts: 3,133	Always a DA/SA revolver with exposed hammer chambered in 22LR. __________________ Simple as ABC . . . Always Be Carrying

June 25, 2020, 12:57 PM	#4
5whiskey Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2005 Location: US Posts: 3,652	In a perfect world, I would probably do the first introduction with a DA/SA .22lr revolver. I taught my daughters on a SA semi-auto in .22 (Astra 4000). Why? It’s what I had. They moved up to DA/SA in 9mm pretty quickly. With mild handloads. __________________ Support the NRA-ILA Auction, ends 03/09/2018 https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=593946

June 25, 2020, 01:27 PM	#5
sigarms228 Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 2011 Posts: 1,768	M&P 22 Compact or Browning Buckmark. I want them to start out not having to worry about loud muzzle blast or major recoil (from a new shooter's perspective) while they learn the basics. Pretty much everyone enjoys shooting a 22 pistol and if they don't enjoy the shooting experience it mat very well be their last shooting experience. __________________ “When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic.” ― Benjamin Franklin

June 25, 2020, 01:57 PM	#6
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,821	What type for complete beginners? SINGLE SHOT T/C Contender in .22LR. It teaches the value ( and the work involved) in every single shot. Repeaters are something to be earned. I realize a lot of you don't have a good, or any single shots, but you should. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

June 25, 2020, 02:10 PM	#7
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,523	If it's an adult, I almost always start them out with my S&W 686 4" bbl. It's simple to operate (I train before going to the range). It has a good amount of weight (tame recoil), is well balanced (easy to hold sight picture), and I load it with light 38 Special ammo (at first, at least). I'm a firm believer that wheel guns are the best way for first-timers to put a few downrange. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

June 25, 2020, 02:11 PM	#8
cslinger Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 2,045	Depends on what they gravitate to or have a perceived desire for. In a vacuum a .22 semi auto pistol or bolt action .22 rifle. The MAIN THING I do with new shooters is ONLY LOAD A SINGLE CARTRIDGE for the first bit of learning, however long that takes. This ensures that if they get scared and freak out at a shot and drop the gun it will be empty or if they swing left or right off the firing line it is more likely to be empty etc. etc. I also tend to try and OVER EMPHASIZE the noise and blast they will experience and UNDER EMPHASIZE the recoil as most folks expect .500 magnum recoil but theater level noise when in reality the exact opposite is generally the case. If I can mentally prepare them for the noise the rest is gravy, unless you are doing something stupid like teaching on a scandium .357 or .44 or something else ludicrous. __________________ "Is there anyway I can write my local gun store off on my taxes as dependents?"

June 25, 2020, 02:23 PM	#9
seanc Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 1998 Posts: 590	Pellet guns. I have fairly accurate pellet guns, either pistol or rifle. I want it to be fun. I want them to want to do it again. I want them to not be afraid of pulling the trigger and to learn what a good trigger pull is. Then I make fun of their "group" and make some pointers on sight alignment and trigger pull. Before I go to real guns, I have a Crosman 2240 that does have a little push to it and is very accurate. Then I go on to real guns like cslinger said, 1 round at a time and lots of dry fire at the range between live fire.

June 25, 2020, 02:42 PM	#10
5whiskey Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2005 Location: US Posts: 3,652	I thought we were focusing on pistol. I have ALWAYS started a new shooter on a .22 rifle. Usually a marlin model 60, only 5 rounds allowed to be loaded at the time. For my youngest daughter I’ve acquired a youth bolt action .22 __________________ Support the NRA-ILA Auction, ends 03/09/2018 https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=593946

June 25, 2020, 02:51 PM	#11
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,446	^^^^ Yep, rifle first, single shot preferred, depending on the age of the new shooter. When my kids started at the age of 6, it was a Marlin 15YN, aka Lil Buckaroo single shot rifle; THEN they moved on to semi rifles and then my Ruger MKII. __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

June 25, 2020, 02:57 PM	#13
stinkeypete Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2010 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 1,292	Air rifle. Seanc has it right. Air rifle to .22 rifle... learn the basics, learn to control the muzzle, don’t worry about inducing flinches. Maybe progress to very light centerfire rifle loads, maybe shoot shotgun a little. In my opinion, the biggest problems with pistols is that it is so darned easy to lose attention for one second resulting in pointing at self or other things that would not be okay to shoot from negligence. Air gun pistol to .22 contender would be best because of the long barrel helping the noobie keep that muzzle pointed safe. As I sold my contender, .22 single action. Identify target, cock hammer, aim, fire, repeat. Then semi-auto .22 because it’s easier to work on accuracy. Then build up to larger caliber and finally double action revolver or da/sa semi auto as maintaining smooth trigger control is the hardest skill after flawlessly following all safety rules in my opinion. Really, did anyone here NOT start out with a BB gun?

June 25, 2020, 03:19 PM	#14
cslinger Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 2,045	I guess technically I started with a BB gun but honestly I think my first firearm shooting was either a 1911 or an M16 at around 7ish. Yes I said M16 and not AR15. I grew up with family heavily into class 3 stuff so I got to shoot a great deal of that type of stuff fairly early on. NO MY FIRST OUTINGS WERE NOT WITH THE HAPPY SWITCH TO JOHN WICK. As for airguns I don’t disagree. They can be a great stepping stone. But have their own quirks that don’t translate. It really depends on the new shooter in question, their age, physical abilities and desires. Honestly the vast number of common firearms don’t recoil that much as to hinder teaching new adult shooters. I find I just need to get them through the boom and pressure wave so to speak. Again I wouldn’t pull out the trusty .50AE or 7lb 300 Win Mag or something silly but most firearms lend themselves to teaching new adult shooters with the right instruction and additional safety considerations. Kids are a different story where the tool itself matters far more. Like I said in an ideal world with most new shooters a .22 rifle and subsequently a .22 pistol. Airgun technique, at least spring/gas ram, doesn’t readily translate to firearms. It will teach trigger control and follow through and is great for safety but for a total newbie I don’t want them going into firearms using a light hold like that necessary for the airguns. Honestly nobody is giving any WRONG answers. __________________ "Is there anyway I can write my local gun store off on my taxes as dependents?" Last edited by cslinger; June 25, 2020 at 03:25 PM.

June 25, 2020, 03:21 PM	#15
Ignition Override Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2008 Location: About 20 nm from the Big Muddy Posts: 2,884	Mostly a .22LR handgun. What can be difficult to determine is Whether a person has ever tried shooting before, and if so, did they receive any safety instruction? People are sometimes not clear about their level of exposure, or what they remember.

June 25, 2020, 03:23 PM	#16
TailGator Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,787	I start folks with a semi because I (horrors!) don't own a .22 revolver. I move them on to heavy center fire pistols and get them real comfortable with that before I let them shoot anything light, as in pistols I actually carry.

June 25, 2020, 05:14 PM	#18
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 8,638	I have a friend who is my complete opposite,,, I have a friend who is my complete opposite,,, He likes to start newbies with a striker fired semi-auto. His thinking is they are "fool proof" in their method of operation,,, The optimal "point and click interface" he says. He also thinks that training a newbie on a revolver is a waste of time,,, I tell him that he has no respect for history or tradition. He is also a Millennial who can't drive a manual transmission,,, He truly doesn't think he's missing out on anything. I disagree with him in most things,,, But I don't try to change his mind either. Aarond . __________________ Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)

June 25, 2020, 06:47 PM	#19
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,446	^^^ LOL __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

June 26, 2020, 07:05 AM	#20
rodfac Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,623	.22 LR revolver...I have three of them: Ruger Single Six, S&W Model 18, and a Colt Diamondback. Low recoil and no auto-reloading function to worry about while teaching the basics of safety, sight alignment/picture etc. After a session or two, we go to an auto-loader and teach the basic manual of arms vs. that of a revolver and also the add'l safety considerations: gun's always loading itself, trigger finger off the trigger until aligned with target, use of 'safety', et.al. Guns include: Colt Woodsman, Ruger Mkll, Smith 41, 1911 with .22 upper, and a Sig P226 with the .22 exchange caliber unit installed. If applicable, we go to a 9mm or .32 H&R when they're ready. For the most part, we shoot steel from 10 yds as well as plain white paper plates but when they've demonstrated a little proficiency, we shoot BBQ briquettes at 10 yds...gives a satisfying "explosion" of dust, is a challenging target, and they're cheap!!! YMMv, Rod __________________ Cherish our flag, honor it, defend it in word and deed, or get the hell out. Our Bill of Rights has been paid for by heros in uniform and shall not be diluted by misguided governmental social experiments. We owe this to our children, anything less is cowardice. USAF FAC, 5th Spl Forces, Vietnam Vet '69-'73.

June 26, 2020, 11:08 AM	#21
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 8,638	I like the idea of BBQ briquettes as a fun reactive target,,, I'm gonna have to try those out. I usually use one of the human-like targets to start with,,, They are large enough to see every shot,,, Even if it's way off center. Something like this,,, I've only had one person (a guy),,, Who was uncomfortable shooting at a human silhouette. Aarond . __________________ Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)

June 26, 2020, 11:14 AM	#22
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	Single action .22 revolver.

June 26, 2020, 11:57 AM	#23
cslinger Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 2,045	As far as shooting at a silhouette target goes my only objection is that it gives such a large, fairly cluttered target to shoot. I prefer round shoot and see’s of various sizes or a simple outlined white circle or square. This lets me get shooters to focus on a very defined point and size and or range can be adjusted as necessary. Aim small, miss small as cliche as it is really does pay some dividends in my experience. __________________ "Is there anyway I can write my local gun store off on my taxes as dependents?"

June 26, 2020, 12:10 PM	#24
Drm50 Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2014 Posts: 1,378	M34 S&W STD Ruger auto....both 22s

June 26, 2020, 01:23 PM	#25
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	Yes, I have never owned a 22LR revolver. A 38/357 loaded with wadcutters is a good substitute. Since semi automatics seem to more prevalent these days in instructing a new shooter I emphathize that the safety is engaged after EVERY shot and they get a good sight picture THEN they release the safety.