Unique inconsistant?

chordmaster5 · July 13, 2009, 07:17 PM

I just loaded some .38 specials yesterday for the first time. I used 4.0 grains of Unique using my graduated slide on my Lee progressive. I checked weights periodically and they were running between 4.0 and 4.3. At the range the rounds clocked in the mid 700 fps range which was okay, but I had several that clocked at 300 fps velocities and my last shot was a squib.
Anyone else have problems with Unique on this small a load? I've been using HP-38 on my .45 acp loads and also my .40 S&W. No problems.
Thanks for any input.

ir3e971 · July 13, 2009, 08:22 PM

Welcome Chordmaster,

First, this is probably in the wrong area.

Second, when I load Unique in 38 I get a spread of .1 grains + or - also in a uniflow powder measure (RCBS).

Because I like the powder, I use a medium load to compensate for variance without going under or over spec.

If you are using a progressive style press with automatic powder dispenser, Unique may not be the best powder because of it large flakes.

What type press and measure (specifically) are you using? Most likely someone will be along shortly who has a similar configuration, and possibly encountered a similar issue.

Don't get discouraged by reloading, it is a great hobby.

oneounceload · July 13, 2009, 08:40 PM

I've used Unique and Universal Clays for years in 9mm, 38, 357, 20 and 28 gauge. For metallic, I have used the RCBS powder measure and get consistent drops with no problems

**Bud Helms** · July 13, 2009, 09:13 PM

We have a Handloading & Reloading forum.

**Unclenick** · July 14, 2009, 01:26 AM

Now that Bud's moved it, I'll comment that Unique's large flakes tend to cause it to do what is called "bridging", meaning the flakes interleave in a way that is self-supporting, so the full load doesn't fall into the powder measure's metering cavity. That's what caused the short loads in this instance.

I've had trouble with it hanging up even in my Uniflow from time to time. It takes the form of the drum trying to cut flakes. The Lee Perfect measures instructions say not to even try with Unique. Since Hodgdon Universal Clays is almost a grain-for-grain substitute in most loads (start 5% lower and work up to the Unique charge) and meters much better and burns cleaner, I have pretty much converted to it in place of Unique. Still have a can I have to finish, though.

Doodlebugger45 · July 14, 2009, 02:33 AM

I started reloading with Unique and it was pretty good at first because I was so paranoid I was weighing every single charge. Finally I bought a Lee Perfect Powder Measure and then I didn't like it so much. When I first got the powder measure I didn't trust it so I continued to weigh every charge for awhile. Probably 7 out of 10 charges with Unique were pretty good. Maybe 2 out of 10 were a bit off, maybe by .2 or .3 gr. But maybe 1 out of 10 would be WAY out of whack. Maybe .6 or so off. Not a dangerous situation for a 480 Ruger if I wasn't near the limits, but quite a bit for my 38 spl loads. So when I was using Unique, my powder measure was basically a glorified powder dipper that kind of got me close. If it was .2 grains low, I would trickle in a bit. If it was .2 grains high, I would dump it back into the hopper and try again. Finally I got tired of that after I saw how good the Tite Group powder and others would measure. I don't use Unique now except for if I'm weighing every single charge.

rg1 · July 14, 2009, 03:20 AM

Are your bullets good and tight in the brass? Can you push it against the reloading bench and will the bullet go into the case farther? Or with thumb pressure can you push the bullet deeper into the case? If you can push the bullet deeper into the case with either method than you are not getting enough case neck tension on the bullet. Also, a good roll crimp is needed on your .38 brass. If the bullets are not tight the primer force will start the bullet moving and the powder has a much larger space to burn in and pressure will be very low. Velocity will vary widely and you can get squibs. Some .38 brass is thinner and possibly your sizing die isn't sizing the brass enough to hold bullets tight. If you expander die doesn't "feel" like it is doing any expanding then that might indicate a problem. Are you using different brand names of brass? Possibly one make is causing a problem. And as already said make sure your powder charges are accurate. Unique tends to do best at higher charges rather than start charges.

WESHOOT2 · July 14, 2009, 06:11 AM

Ditto Hodgdon Universal Clays.

RKG · July 14, 2009, 08:56 AM

It is often said that straight-walled rimmed revolver brass doesn't need to be trimmed. This is true enough as far as it goes: straight-walled cases do not tend to stretch (either from firing or sizing), and they do not headspace on the mouth.

However, .38 loads, particularly mid-range loads, are dependent upon a sufficient and consistent crimp for consistent internal ballistics (with concomitant effect on exterior ballistics). Crimp, on the other hand, is a function of case length (since the crimp ring in the seater die registers on distance from the top of the press ram stroke).

Ergo: if you want really consistent .38 loads (particularly mid-range loads), trim your brass to a consistent length after the first resizing and then segregate them. Each time you acquire new brass (either from firing factory or from picking up reliable once-fired), trim after first resizing and add to your pile of "working" brass.

margiesex · July 14, 2009, 09:21 AM

I've been a Unique user for as long as I can recall - when they used to be Hercules, even.

Always loved it - never a problem, but on the 38's I give them (and my 357's) a good crimp - it is very obvious just by looking at them from a side view.

I, too, use an RCBS measure on my Pro2000 and it seems relatively consistent.

However, I do try to not stop for long periods of time while loading, i. e. - I have all my brass polished, belled, and primed and ready to go, so that I don't have long periods where the powder can "settle" in the measure, etc. If I find that something comes up I can't finish - I dump it all back into the can and start over next time.

I guess I'm just sold on Alliant powders - Unique, Bullseye, and 2400 are my main powders, and I drop IMR 4064 for the rifles.

Take care.

God bless.

Margiesex

And remember: Hug your God and your guns - 'cause he's coming for them both - and soon!

roc1 · July 14, 2009, 09:46 AM

I put the Hornady pistol rotor in my measure for small loads of Unique. It solved the problem with heavier 357 mag loads it works fine with the standard rotor in the measure.It is harder to measure because of the bigger flakes.
roc1

ZeSpectre · July 14, 2009, 10:04 AM

Most of my .38 Special is reloaded soft with Unique and lead (Cowboy action shooting loads) and I've found that a slightly heavier crimp gives me far more consistent results though I have no idea why.

GeauxTide · July 14, 2009, 11:48 AM

Unique was my first powder 40 years ago and still use it today in 45LC. Migrated from the Uniflow to the Lyman DPS1200 and have not had a problem. I didn't have the compaction issue mentioned above because I never let the Uniflow get below half full.

One other most important comment from above is to have a firm crimp no matter the load.

July 13, 2009, 07:17 PM	#1
chordmaster5 Junior Member Join Date: May 27, 2009 Location: Central NC Posts: 14	Unique inconsistant? I just loaded some .38 specials yesterday for the first time. I used 4.0 grains of Unique using my graduated slide on my Lee progressive. I checked weights periodically and they were running between 4.0 and 4.3. At the range the rounds clocked in the mid 700 fps range which was okay, but I had several that clocked at 300 fps velocities and my last shot was a squib. Anyone else have problems with Unique on this small a load? I've been using HP-38 on my .45 acp loads and also my .40 S&W. No problems. Thanks for any input.

July 14, 2009, 01:26 AM	#5
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Now that Bud's moved it, I'll comment that Unique's large flakes tend to cause it to do what is called "bridging", meaning the flakes interleave in a way that is self-supporting, so the full load doesn't fall into the powder measure's metering cavity. That's what caused the short loads in this instance. I've had trouble with it hanging up even in my Uniflow from time to time. It takes the form of the drum trying to cut flakes. The Lee Perfect measures instructions say not to even try with Unique. Since Hodgdon Universal Clays is almost a grain-for-grain substitute in most loads (start 5% lower and work up to the Unique charge) and meters much better and burns cleaner, I have pretty much converted to it in place of Unique. Still have a can I have to finish, though. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 14, 2009, 06:11 AM	#8
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	metered Ditto Hodgdon Universal Clays. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

July 14, 2009, 09:21 AM	#10
margiesex Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2009 Location: Levittown, PA Posts: 210	Unique thrower I've been a Unique user for as long as I can recall - when they used to be Hercules, even. Always loved it - never a problem, but on the 38's I give them (and my 357's) a good crimp - it is very obvious just by looking at them from a side view. I, too, use an RCBS measure on my Pro2000 and it seems relatively consistent. However, I do try to not stop for long periods of time while loading, i. e. - I have all my brass polished, belled, and primed and ready to go, so that I don't have long periods where the powder can "settle" in the measure, etc. If I find that something comes up I can't finish - I dump it all back into the can and start over next time. I guess I'm just sold on Alliant powders - Unique, Bullseye, and 2400 are my main powders, and I drop IMR 4064 for the rifles. Take care. God bless. Margiesex And remember: Hug your God and your guns - 'cause he's coming for them both - and soon!

July 14, 2009, 10:04 AM	#12
ZeSpectre Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Shenandoah Valley Posts: 3,276	Most of my .38 Special is reloaded soft with Unique and lead (Cowboy action shooting loads) and I've found that a slightly heavier crimp gives me far more consistent results though I have no idea why. __________________ "The dogs may bark but the caravan moves on"

July 13, 2009, 08:22 PM	#2
ir3e971 Senior Member Join Date: August 3, 2006 Posts: 145	Welcome Chordmaster, First, this is probably in the wrong area. Second, when I load Unique in 38 I get a spread of .1 grains + or - also in a uniflow powder measure (RCBS). Because I like the powder, I use a medium load to compensate for variance without going under or over spec. If you are using a progressive style press with automatic powder dispenser, Unique may not be the best powder because of it large flakes. What type press and measure (specifically) are you using? Most likely someone will be along shortly who has a similar configuration, and possibly encountered a similar issue. Don't get discouraged by reloading, it is a great hobby.

July 13, 2009, 08:40 PM	#3
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	I've used Unique and Universal Clays for years in 9mm, 38, 357, 20 and 28 gauge. For metallic, I have used the RCBS powder measure and get consistent drops with no problems

July 13, 2009, 09:13 PM	#4
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	We have a Handloading & Reloading forum.

July 14, 2009, 02:33 AM	#6
Doodlebugger45 Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2009 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,717	I started reloading with Unique and it was pretty good at first because I was so paranoid I was weighing every single charge. Finally I bought a Lee Perfect Powder Measure and then I didn't like it so much. When I first got the powder measure I didn't trust it so I continued to weigh every charge for awhile. Probably 7 out of 10 charges with Unique were pretty good. Maybe 2 out of 10 were a bit off, maybe by .2 or .3 gr. But maybe 1 out of 10 would be WAY out of whack. Maybe .6 or so off. Not a dangerous situation for a 480 Ruger if I wasn't near the limits, but quite a bit for my 38 spl loads. So when I was using Unique, my powder measure was basically a glorified powder dipper that kind of got me close. If it was .2 grains low, I would trickle in a bit. If it was .2 grains high, I would dump it back into the hopper and try again. Finally I got tired of that after I saw how good the Tite Group powder and others would measure. I don't use Unique now except for if I'm weighing every single charge.

July 14, 2009, 03:20 AM	#7
rg1 Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2001 Posts: 1,125	Are your bullets good and tight in the brass? Can you push it against the reloading bench and will the bullet go into the case farther? Or with thumb pressure can you push the bullet deeper into the case? If you can push the bullet deeper into the case with either method than you are not getting enough case neck tension on the bullet. Also, a good roll crimp is needed on your .38 brass. If the bullets are not tight the primer force will start the bullet moving and the powder has a much larger space to burn in and pressure will be very low. Velocity will vary widely and you can get squibs. Some .38 brass is thinner and possibly your sizing die isn't sizing the brass enough to hold bullets tight. If you expander die doesn't "feel" like it is doing any expanding then that might indicate a problem. Are you using different brand names of brass? Possibly one make is causing a problem. And as already said make sure your powder charges are accurate. Unique tends to do best at higher charges rather than start charges.

July 14, 2009, 08:56 AM	#9
RKG Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2009 Location: Boston Posts: 562	It is often said that straight-walled rimmed revolver brass doesn't need to be trimmed. This is true enough as far as it goes: straight-walled cases do not tend to stretch (either from firing or sizing), and they do not headspace on the mouth. However, .38 loads, particularly mid-range loads, are dependent upon a sufficient and consistent crimp for consistent internal ballistics (with concomitant effect on exterior ballistics). Crimp, on the other hand, is a function of case length (since the crimp ring in the seater die registers on distance from the top of the press ram stroke). Ergo: if you want really consistent .38 loads (particularly mid-range loads), trim your brass to a consistent length after the first resizing and then segregate them. Each time you acquire new brass (either from firing factory or from picking up reliable once-fired), trim after first resizing and add to your pile of "working" brass.

July 14, 2009, 09:46 AM	#11
roc1 Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2005 Location: Lubbock Texas Posts: 560	I put the Hornady pistol rotor in my measure for small loads of Unique. It solved the problem with heavier 357 mag loads it works fine with the standard rotor in the measure.It is harder to measure because of the bigger flakes. roc1

July 14, 2009, 11:48 AM	#13
GeauxTide Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Helena, AL Posts: 4,424	Unique was my first powder 40 years ago and still use it today in 45LC. Migrated from the Uniflow to the Lyman DPS1200 and have not had a problem. I didn't have the compaction issue mentioned above because I never let the Uniflow get below half full. One other most important comment from above is to have a firm crimp no matter the load.