Questions on WI CC law

[JN01]

I'm considering relocating to Wisconsin in a couple years and have been researching, among other things, their gun laws.

I read through the info on handgunlaw.us and the WI government web site, but I'm still unclear on a couple points.

I see that they have preemption on gun laws, but it appears that aside from listed no gun zones, state/local governments are allowed to post no gun signs. Is this a common occurrence?

Secondly, violating a gun buster sign is neither a felony nor misdemeanor, but a "Class B Forfeiture". Is that similar to a ticket and fine, or does it also involve a criminal court proceeding?

It is good to see that you are allowed to store your firearms in your vehicle in no gun zones, and nice that knives are also permitted. Wisconsin laws are better than Ohio even with years of incremental improvements.

Any quirks in the law, Wisconsinites?

[crazyredneckvet]

I've never even heard of anything other than being asked to leave unless it's a federal building even when open carrying. "Someone" I heard about never abided by gun-free signs unless it was a government building, and has been asked to secure their firearm in their car or leave on several occasions but never had police called on them. The only thing you may have to watch out for is if you're accustomed to having a beer with dinner, make sure you're not carrying when you're served. I'm pretty sure that's a felony. Not sure exactly what the class b forfeiture is, but it sounds like a municipal charge ie a ticket. It is fairly common for police and hospitals to be gun free zones as well as admin buildings. Most malls and most public transit do not have signs posted.
Very few non corporate businesses have signs posted, and almost all corporate businesses do not have legal notices, so with the exception of applebee's (because I usually drink when I go there) I generally ignore those non legal signs.

[Aguila Blanca]

I am not from Wisconsin nor am I a lawyer, but I am a wordsmith. The word "Forfeiture" obviously implies to forfeit something, which means to give up or to turn over. Would this mean that if caught carrying in a posted location you lose your gun?

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by crazyredneckvet

I've never even heard of anything other than being asked to leave unless it's a federal building even when open carrying. "Someone" I heard about never abided by gun-free signs unless it was a government building, and has been asked to secure their firearm in their car or leave on several occasions but never had police called on them. The only thing you may have to watch out for is if you're accustomed to having a beer with dinner, make sure you're not carrying when you're served.....

It appears that you might not be in Wisconsin, so what is the basis of your opinion on Wisconsin law? And what's this "'Someone' I heard about garbage"? If you're going to give comment on legal matters, you need to have a solid basis.

In Wisconsin one commits an offense by simply entering on property that has been properly posted. A "no guns" sign meeting the statutory requirements, e. g., at least 5"x7" and posted at entrances in a manner reasonably likely to be seen, has the force of law. The crime is committed as soon as the person enters the property, and no failure to leave after being asked is not necessary to complete the offense. (Wisconsin Statutes 943.13).

"Forfeitures" are defined at Wisconsin Statutes 939.52:

939.52 Classification of forfeitures. (1) Except as provided in ss. 946.86 and 946.87, forfeitures in chs. 939 to 951 are classified as follows:

(a) Class A forfeiture.

(b) Class B forfeiture.

(c) Class C forfeiture.

(d) Class D forfeiture.

(e) Class E forfeiture.

(2) A forfeiture is a Class A, B, C, D or E forfeiture when it is so specified in chs. 939 to 951.

(3) Penalties for forfeitures are as follows:

(a) For a Class A forfeiture, a forfeiture not to exceed $10,000.

(b) For a Class B forfeiture, a forfeiture not to exceed $1,000.

(c) For a Class C forfeiture, a forfeiture not to exceed $500.

(d) For a Class D forfeiture, a forfeiture not to exceed $200.

(e) For a Class E forfeiture, a forfeiture not to exceed $25.

So in Wisconsin carrying one's gun onto posted property can cost you up to $1,000.00.

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

....The word "Forfeiture" obviously implies to forfeit something, which means to give up or to turn over....

You're of course correct about the meaning the word. In this case it looks like what you give up is your bank account -- or at least some portion of its contents.

[JN01]

I assumed violating the gun buster signs was some sort of fine, but not being a lawyer, didn't know if it would involve a criminal or civil court or would be something more along the lines of a traffic ticket.

I never purposefully violate posted businesses, but do have concerns about inadvertently doing so. Here in Ohio it is a misdemeanor crime. Early after our CCW law was passed, the United Dairy Farmer convenience store chain started posting their stores, but would do so with tiny window decals, placed with about 15 others in their front windows. Most people didn't see them and weren't aware that the businesses were posted. The honchos from one of the Ohio gun rights groups had a meeting with the company head to discuss it, and subsequently, all the gun buster signs were removed from UDF stores.

Also, prior to passing legislation to allow restaurant carry, CCW in any place that served alcohol was a felony. They were not required to post gun buster signs. Consequently, it was possible to go into a place armed, not realize they served liquor until you looked at the menu, but nevertheless be committing a crime.

I realize that WI law requires all entrances to be conspicuously posted, but Murphy sometimes rears his head. It would be nice if unintentional violations didn't result in criminal sanctions/criminal record.

[Berserker]

Seems doctors offices for some reason seem to have the no gun signs.


One nice thing is you can carry in a place that sells alcohol, as long as you are not drinking.

Governent does not interfere with private gun sales, hand guns or long. No gun registration. Would be nice if you could skip background check if you have a permit.

Nice you can have them in car at work.

You are not going to see no gun signs at stores and everday places you go. I have seen one or two gas stations, but very rare.

Easy to get a permit. If you took hunter safety, just send a copy of it in.

Some of the laws around schools you need to watch. It would be best to look up laws on .gov site.

Open carry is legal but not done much.

No weird gun cards like you see in IL. Took them a long time to get CC, but I think they did it well. Really like private gun sales. Also like knives can be concealed.

[JN01]

Thanks for the info. Do many state, county, or city facilities prohibit carry (aside from the statutory prohibitions like jails, courts, mental hospitals, etc)? In Ohio all government owned/operated buildings (libraries, museums, visitor centers, city halls, etc) are off limits unless they specifically allow it. None do.

[Berserker]

Dunno, I don't go to them. I don't think visitor centers do, I stop to use the bathrooms.


Is this what you are basing your relocation choices on? Whether you can bring your gun to your court hearing?

[JN01]

No, gun laws are one small factor. Most of my family is there (big plus), but I hate winter (big minus). I'm also looking at home prices, income and property taxes, and other things.

The gun laws are less of a deciding factor (WI seems to be a bit better than OH in most cases) than curiosity as to how things work up there.

[Berserker]

I wouldn't move anywhere oppresive like the coasts. While WI may not be perfect, it is pretty good. Not sure what I would define as perfect.


I hate the heat, so OH would suck for me.

What part of state are you looking at?

My property taxes have gone down 10% since Walker. But if you move to a liberal area, they rammed through teacher contracts, and then got their budgets cut from state, so tax payers got screwed.


Madison is lefty. As most big cities are, but they got lots of government workers and university, so real bad.

UP where I am from requires hand gun registration, which really sucks. WI you can go on Armslist, meet in a parking lot and buy handgun, just like a toaster.


Car insurance is decent in WI, MI really high.

Property taxes are cheaper outside of town, which is probably same all over.




Plus you get the Packers, though you don't have to live in WI. But you got Parker gear for sale all year up here. Just more of it now.

[Blindstitch]

Wisconsin is simple as long as you don't go into federal or local government buildings.

The secondary wisest advise I could suggest is if you conceal in a way that is truly concealed don't worry about the no gun signs on small businesses but realize if you're forced to use it in those businesses they could sue you. Still better than being dead.

Here's a good example. I will not be taking a gun or knife off to shop at Harbor Freight a company who sells a $5 machete that anyone can grab off the shelf. But they have a no weapons sign on the door.

But I do remove items for my dentist office.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Blindstitch

The secondary wisest advise I could suggest is if you conceal in a way that is truly concealed don't worry about the no gun signs on small businesses but realize if you're forced to use it in those businesses they could sue you. Still better than being dead.

So you are advising people to break the law?

I didn't think we did that here ...

[Berserker]

Teacher, teacher.

[Blindstitch]

So you are advising people to break the law?

I didn't think we did that here ...

I'm advising that people use their heads and make their own decisions. But you're more likely to get the cops called on you pulling your gun out of where ever it is concealed and putting it in a safe place in your vehicle than leave it in deep concealment to buy a pack of gum.

A few years ago people were open carrying which is legal and a lot of people were calling 911 reporting people walking around with guns. Created a pretty big hassle tying up police resources. Why advertise you have a gun.

[Berserker]

A guy shot a robber in Aldis, in the leg. One of few or only grocery stores with no gun signs. They dragged out giving his gun back, but he got it. Early on you saw lots of no gun signs. I suspect liberals sent them all over, all the same sign.

either they realized it was crazy liberal BS, 2nd to last state to have CC, and some how they think we were special and going to kill each other, or maybe people boycotted them, and they the worried about money, but those signs are gone.

Liberals still do it, but you got to laugh at how stupid they are. They act like they are special, or one little place will be different than the rest of the world.

But I heard if for guys I worked with, about how CC would be legal during deer season, They were poisened by the union.

[crazyredneckvet]

Just to clarify as someone suggested I was not from WI; I am. and that "someone" referred to in my previous post does not wish to be incriminated by admitting to knowingly breaking the law.

(libraries, museums, visitor centers, city halls, etc) are off limits unless they specifically allow it. None do.

Not in wisconsin; they are not considered government buildings so carrying in them is the same thing as carrying in a private business with the exception of city halls. Those are felonies.

[Blindstitch]

A few months ago it was in the news that an Alderman was carrying at a common council meeting and other places. The location is just North of Milwaukee.

http://www.sheboyganpress.com/story/...work/99699984/

On a separate incident a dpw worker ended up in a place he probably didn't want to be and didn't get to go home ever again.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/c...rker/99584592/

Carjacking is becoming way to abundant on the north side of Milwaukee.

[JN01]

I'm looking at the Eau Claire area. Looks like there are a couple good ranges to shoot at in the area. Home prices are a tad lower than here, so I should do OK selling my current home and being able to pay cash for the new one.

WI seems to have done well with CCW. Even though they were next to last to adopt it, they did it right from the start. OH passed a very flawed law in 2004 with a lot of weird, nonsensical provisions. Every couple years, we get a couple minor improvements, but it will probably take years to get it fully straightened out.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Berserker

Teacher, teacher.

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The signs have the force of law in Wisconsin, and Frank has posted the law that makes the penalty a "forfeiture" of up to $1,000. Any post along the lines of "concealed means concealed, go ahead and ignore the signs" is a violation of the forum's rules. Don't shoot the messanger -- I didn't write the rules, I agreed to follow them when I signed on.

Originally Posted by Blindstitch

I'm advising that people use their heads and make their own decisions. But you're more likely to get the cops called on you pulling your gun out of where ever it is concealed and putting it in a safe place in your vehicle than leave it in deep concealment to buy a pack of gum.

With all due respect, your post to which I responded was not advising people to "use their heads," it was advising people to ignore the signs -- which is unlawful.

Originally Posted by Blindstitch

The secondary wisest advise [sic] I could suggest is if you conceal in a way that is truly concealed don't worry about the no gun signs on small businesses but realize if you're forced to use it in those businesses they could sue you. Still better than being dead.

You conveniently left out of your discussion of possible consequences the possibility of being charged and fined.

[Frank Ettin]

We seem to be done here. If anyone has something useful to add send me a PM, and I'll consider re-opening the thread.