1851 Navy and Conicals?

Rookie21 · June 19, 2017, 09:15 AM

I just purchased my very own and first 1851 Navy .36 Cal. It's a Pietta built Revolver. Steel color case hardened finished frame. I noticed it's got a cut out in the frame for bullets not just round ball. So I'm curious.

1. Does anyone here know if bullets are any more accurate than the round balls at 25 or 50 yards?

2. The front sight may be too short. Are their any other sight heights available for these?

Centurion · June 19, 2017, 10:45 AM

Hi!
I don't have a 1851 Navy but a Remington-Beals of Navy caliber. Anyway, it is also a .36 cap and ball revolver. I don't have a mold for .36 cal balls but one for 125 grains conical, so I mainly shoot conicals. A friend of mine some time ago gave me some balls so I could also shoot/test it; and I found that for my .36 Remington both were almost equally accurate. I have several 45s, Colt and Remington models, and in such caliber I found balls are more accurate than conicals. But in my .36, both perform almost the same. In my case I use to shoot it up to 25 meters (almost 28 yards), never 50 meters.
Regarding your front sight, and before taking any action to correct it, you want to shoot your revolver with different loads. You sure will find that contrary to what you may think, the revolver should have the tendency to shoot high as it came from factory.

Have nice shots and welcome to the Black Powder illness! You won't find any cure for it!

drobs · June 21, 2017, 11:01 PM

Post up some pics of your new gun.

Looking into conicals, seems you need to cast your own.

Here's a 6 place mold for a conical that will work in a .36 C&B revolver that will carry lots of lube:
http://www.biglube.com/BulletMolds.a...3-60a8c627d736

I'm not set up to cast yet but do want to soon.

Rookie21 · June 22, 2017, 07:28 AM

It's a pretty one that's for sure! I cast all my own stuff. Ordered a .375 mold for it Monday. Borrowed one from a friend until mine gets here so I could shoot this thing this weekend. I own other Muzzleloading Pistols. Inline, custom competitive stuff for the pistol line in Friendship Indiana. NMLRA Shoots. But this as a traditional gun should be fun. Bought it for the new "open top Revolver matches" they have.

Hawg · June 22, 2017, 09:08 AM

The older Pietta's had a 1:30 twist and were more accurate with round balls. The newer ones have a 1:16 twist which is much more friendly to conicals. You will have to open up the cutout in the barrel lug to get all but the shortest conicals under the ram and they likely won't be the most accurate. I think you will find the front sight will hit pretty close to POA.

Hellgate · June 22, 2017, 09:22 AM

I use the LEE 130gr conical in my '61 Colt Navy and my Remington navies. That one actually looks like there is plenty of room under the rammer for a conical providing it drops into the first driving band. The LEE double cavity molds are pretty affordable. Get the .380 ball and their conical molds and get some pure or almost pure soft lead.

maillemaker · June 22, 2017, 11:06 AM

Eras Gone now makes a .36 Colt reproduction bullet mold.

They also make a reproduction .44 Dow and Johnson conical bullet mold.

https://www.facebook.com/erasgonemolds/

Steve

bedbugbilly · June 22, 2017, 05:16 PM

I have owned many '51 Navies over the past 50 years of various brands. Currently, I have a Uberti which has proven to be the best one I"ve ever had - but that is not saying that Piettas are not good as they are. I also have a Pietta Remington "Navy".

I purchased a Lee mold for the conicals to try out in both my Uberti and the Remington. I also bought one of the older Euroarms brass molds which is a close replica of the original molds casting a single RB and a singe conical. That mold was a true PIA and I had no luck in shooting those conicals. The Lee? In y Navies, it proved to not shoot very well and the round ball loads that I've beens hooting all these years proved to be more accurate. BUT . . . that was out of MY Navies - your Pietta may prove to be a different story.

Before you put the money into a conical mold, I'd suggest that you find some of the conicals already cast in the mold that you are looking at. Put an inquiry for some on here or go over to CastBoolits and see if someone can help you out. That way, if you can get some sample conicals, you can try them out.

I gave my brass mold to a fellow who was making a "cased set" '51 Navy to give to his son as he mustered into the Navy. I sold the Lee mold that I had as it just didn't work out for me . . . but again, it just might work in your Pietta and give you good results.

You've got a nice looking Navy! Enjoy it and have fun!

Gaucho Gringo · June 24, 2017, 09:13 PM

If you read Elmer Keith's "Sixguns" he writes that all the old timers preferred round ball over conical's in a .36 percussion revolver. This included a bunch of Civil War veterans. They should be the people to know if anyone. Sometimes what looks better on paper in real life isn't. He said they said the soft lead round balls would flatten out was beyond .36 where a conical would just pass on through just making a .36 size hole. A lot of the early revolver cartridges were wide flat nose or round nose, not pointed.

rodwhaincamo · June 24, 2017, 10:27 PM

A pointed bullet will certainly create a much smaller wound channel than a blunt one, which is certainly why they zipped through without causing much trauma. All of the original conicals I have seen for cap n ball guns were pointed. This is precisely why I created wide flat nosed bullets for my cap n ball guns as they are for hunting with. And a wide flat nose beats a round nose/ball as far as wounding.

And my ROA, as well as my Remington NMA, have 1:16" twist barrels so they have done equally well with various bullets aa with balls. This will determine whether or not yours will do well.

Rookie21 · July 9, 2017, 10:25 PM

10 shots on a 25 yard slow fire pistol target (NMLRA SF Pistol. Same target used for NRA Precision Pistol Timed and Rapid Fire.) A 98-1X. I was using 15 grains of 3Fg Goex, cornmeal to the top flush, seat a .375 ball I cast, and white lithium grease. Shot one handed standing. That's how it's done in Friendship. Holding six o'clock stock sights. I did use a lighter to blacken the front brass post. Shot better than I expected.

drobs · July 9, 2017, 10:44 PM

Nice shooting!

Centurion · July 10, 2017, 06:38 AM

Very nice group!

g.willikers · July 10, 2017, 07:55 AM

Dualist1954 has a recent video on youtube about shooting conicals.
How he makes them, where to get the components and just about everything one needs to know.

Hellgate · July 10, 2017, 09:20 AM

They're gonna have to call you "Ransom" as in Ransom Rest. That's fantastic shooting. I hear all the heavy guns use accurized Remingtons. The Colt's revolvers are a thing of beauty. The Remingtons are a piece of equipment.

Rookie21 · July 10, 2017, 10:22 AM

After shooting this with round ball I'm not going to bother trying conicals or casting any. Don't see a need now. Gotta hand it to Pietta for making a great product for a hell of a price!

gwpercle · July 10, 2017, 07:44 PM

My first handgun was an 1851 reproduction Navy...I shot it so much it was literally falling apart. Brass frames don't last.
Just stick with round balls , conicals do not add any great accuracy .
For casting either balls or conicals get a Lee 2 cavity mould, nice wooden handles , a decent sprue cutter makes them so much easier to use. They are simple to cast.
I tried the little all metal colt reproduction mould with 1 ball and one conical....hard to cast with, too small and (even wearing gloves) the all metal gmould and tiny handles get HOT ! mine are in the box for show only .
Great shooting !
With a little practice it is surprising how accurate you can get with one , carry on .
Gary

rodwhaincamo · July 11, 2017, 10:15 AM

My ROA and Pietta Remington NMA are equally accurate with a ball or conicals (I've tried maybe 7 or 8 different types). But then these pistols have a faster 1:16" twist.

But then I'm also a bit biased being a hunter. I want a wide meplat that will do more damage and sectional density for better penetration.

June 19, 2017, 09:15 AM	#1
Rookie21 Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2009 Posts: 212	1851 Navy and Conicals? I just purchased my very own and first 1851 Navy .36 Cal. It's a Pietta built Revolver. Steel color case hardened finished frame. I noticed it's got a cut out in the frame for bullets not just round ball. So I'm curious. 1. Does anyone here know if bullets are any more accurate than the round balls at 25 or 50 yards? 2. The front sight may be too short. Are their any other sight heights available for these?

June 21, 2017, 11:01 PM	#3
drobs Senior Member Join Date: July 17, 2015 Location: South Central MO / Africa Posts: 1,111	Post up some pics of your new gun. Looking into conicals, seems you need to cast your own. Here's a 6 place mold for a conical that will work in a .36 C&B revolver that will carry lots of lube: http://www.biglube.com/BulletMolds.a...3-60a8c627d736 I'm not set up to cast yet but do want to soon. __________________ NRA Life Member

June 22, 2017, 09:22 AM	#6
Hellgate Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Location: Orygun Posts: 869	I use the LEE 130gr conical in my '61 Colt Navy and my Remington navies. That one actually looks like there is plenty of room under the rammer for a conical providing it drops into the first driving band. The LEE double cavity molds are pretty affordable. Get the .380 ball and their conical molds and get some pure or almost pure soft lead. __________________ With over 15 perCUSSIN' revolvers, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of cap & ball. SASS#3302 (Life), SASS Regulator, NRA (Life), Dirty Gamey Bastards #129 Wolverton Mtn. Peacekeepers (WA), former Orygun Cowboy (Ranger, Posse from Hell)

June 22, 2017, 05:16 PM	#8
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	I have owned many '51 Navies over the past 50 years of various brands. Currently, I have a Uberti which has proven to be the best one I"ve ever had - but that is not saying that Piettas are not good as they are. I also have a Pietta Remington "Navy". I purchased a Lee mold for the conicals to try out in both my Uberti and the Remington. I also bought one of the older Euroarms brass molds which is a close replica of the original molds casting a single RB and a singe conical. That mold was a true PIA and I had no luck in shooting those conicals. The Lee? In y Navies, it proved to not shoot very well and the round ball loads that I've beens hooting all these years proved to be more accurate. BUT . . . that was out of MY Navies - your Pietta may prove to be a different story. Before you put the money into a conical mold, I'd suggest that you find some of the conicals already cast in the mold that you are looking at. Put an inquiry for some on here or go over to CastBoolits and see if someone can help you out. That way, if you can get some sample conicals, you can try them out. I gave my brass mold to a fellow who was making a "cased set" '51 Navy to give to his son as he mustered into the Navy. I sold the Lee mold that I had as it just didn't work out for me . . . but again, it just might work in your Pietta and give you good results. You've got a nice looking Navy! Enjoy it and have fun! __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

June 24, 2017, 09:13 PM	#9
Gaucho Gringo Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2007 Location: Vancouver, WA Posts: 366	If you read Elmer Keith's "Sixguns" he writes that all the old timers preferred round ball over conical's in a .36 percussion revolver. This included a bunch of Civil War veterans. They should be the people to know if anyone. Sometimes what looks better on paper in real life isn't. He said they said the soft lead round balls would flatten out was beyond .36 where a conical would just pass on through just making a .36 size hole. A lot of the early revolver cartridges were wide flat nose or round nose, not pointed. __________________ 357 Taurus Gaucho, 22 Heritage RR, 2-Pietta 1858 44 NMA Remingtons, Pietta, Euroarms & ASM 36 1851 Navies, 31 Uberti 1849, 12 ga H&R Topper, 16 Ga Western Field, 43 Spanish Remington Rolling Block, 44 ASM Colt Walker, High Point C9 9mm, Winchester 1906 22, Rossi 62 22 rifle, Uberti 1860, H&A & IJ 32 S&W BreakTop, 36 Euroarms 1858, 32 H&R 04, 22mag NAA SS BP revolver, .44 Rodgers & Spencer, IJ 38 S&W BreakTop, IJ 22 Sealed 8

June 19, 2017, 10:45 AM	#2
Centurion Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2016 Posts: 270	Hi! I don't have a 1851 Navy but a Remington-Beals of Navy caliber. Anyway, it is also a .36 cap and ball revolver. I don't have a mold for .36 cal balls but one for 125 grains conical, so I mainly shoot conicals. A friend of mine some time ago gave me some balls so I could also shoot/test it; and I found that for my .36 Remington both were almost equally accurate. I have several 45s, Colt and Remington models, and in such caliber I found balls are more accurate than conicals. But in my .36, both perform almost the same. In my case I use to shoot it up to 25 meters (almost 28 yards), never 50 meters. Regarding your front sight, and before taking any action to correct it, you want to shoot your revolver with different loads. You sure will find that contrary to what you may think, the revolver should have the tendency to shoot high as it came from factory. Have nice shots and welcome to the Black Powder illness! You won't find any cure for it!

June 22, 2017, 07:28 AM	#4
Rookie21 Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2009 Posts: 212	It's a pretty one that's for sure! I cast all my own stuff. Ordered a .375 mold for it Monday. Borrowed one from a friend until mine gets here so I could shoot this thing this weekend. I own other Muzzleloading Pistols. Inline, custom competitive stuff for the pistol line in Friendship Indiana. NMLRA Shoots. But this as a traditional gun should be fun. Bought it for the new "open top Revolver matches" they have.

June 22, 2017, 09:08 AM	#5
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	The older Pietta's had a 1:30 twist and were more accurate with round balls. The newer ones have a 1:16 twist which is much more friendly to conicals. You will have to open up the cutout in the barrel lug to get all but the shortest conicals under the ram and they likely won't be the most accurate. I think you will find the front sight will hit pretty close to POA.

June 22, 2017, 11:06 AM	#7
maillemaker Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2010 Posts: 1,635	Eras Gone now makes a .36 Colt reproduction bullet mold. They also make a reproduction .44 Dow and Johnson conical bullet mold. https://www.facebook.com/erasgonemolds/ Steve

June 24, 2017, 10:27 PM	#10
rodwhaincamo Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,246	A pointed bullet will certainly create a much smaller wound channel than a blunt one, which is certainly why they zipped through without causing much trauma. All of the original conicals I have seen for cap n ball guns were pointed. This is precisely why I created wide flat nosed bullets for my cap n ball guns as they are for hunting with. And a wide flat nose beats a round nose/ball as far as wounding. And my ROA, as well as my Remington NMA, have 1:16" twist barrels so they have done equally well with various bullets aa with balls. This will determine whether or not yours will do well.

July 9, 2017, 10:25 PM	#11
Rookie21 Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2009 Posts: 212	10 shots on a 25 yard slow fire pistol target (NMLRA SF Pistol. Same target used for NRA Precision Pistol Timed and Rapid Fire.) A 98-1X. I was using 15 grains of 3Fg Goex, cornmeal to the top flush, seat a .375 ball I cast, and white lithium grease. Shot one handed standing. That's how it's done in Friendship. Holding six o'clock stock sights. I did use a lighter to blacken the front brass post. Shot better than I expected.

July 9, 2017, 10:44 PM	#12
drobs Senior Member Join Date: July 17, 2015 Location: South Central MO / Africa Posts: 1,111	Nice shooting! __________________ NRA Life Member

July 10, 2017, 06:38 AM	#13
Centurion Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2016 Posts: 270	Very nice group!

July 10, 2017, 07:55 AM	#14
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Dualist1954 has a recent video on youtube about shooting conicals. How he makes them, where to get the components and just about everything one needs to know. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

July 10, 2017, 09:20 AM	#15
Hellgate Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Location: Orygun Posts: 869	They're gonna have to call you "Ransom" as in Ransom Rest. That's fantastic shooting. I hear all the heavy guns use accurized Remingtons. The Colt's revolvers are a thing of beauty. The Remingtons are a piece of equipment. __________________ With over 15 perCUSSIN' revolvers, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of cap & ball. SASS#3302 (Life), SASS Regulator, NRA (Life), Dirty Gamey Bastards #129 Wolverton Mtn. Peacekeepers (WA), former Orygun Cowboy (Ranger, Posse from Hell)

July 10, 2017, 10:22 AM	#16
Rookie21 Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2009 Posts: 212	After shooting this with round ball I'm not going to bother trying conicals or casting any. Don't see a need now. Gotta hand it to Pietta for making a great product for a hell of a price!

July 10, 2017, 07:44 PM	#17
gwpercle Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 1,752	My first handgun was an 1851 reproduction Navy...I shot it so much it was literally falling apart. Brass frames don't last. Just stick with round balls , conicals do not add any great accuracy . For casting either balls or conicals get a Lee 2 cavity mould, nice wooden handles , a decent sprue cutter makes them so much easier to use. They are simple to cast. I tried the little all metal colt reproduction mould with 1 ball and one conical....hard to cast with, too small and (even wearing gloves) the all metal gmould and tiny handles get HOT ! mine are in the box for show only . Great shooting ! With a little practice it is surprising how accurate you can get with one , carry on . Gary

July 11, 2017, 10:15 AM	#18
rodwhaincamo Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,246	My ROA and Pietta Remington NMA are equally accurate with a ball or conicals (I've tried maybe 7 or 8 different types). But then these pistols have a faster 1:16" twist. But then I'm also a bit biased being a hunter. I want a wide meplat that will do more damage and sectional density for better penetration.