Pistol Dilemma: Help!

Model12Win · April 21, 2016, 08:30 PM

Hello guys!

As some of you may know, I bought a Pedersoli Navy Moll .45 caliber pistol from Dixie Gun Works, and it arrived today:

This gun is VERY pretty. Man, the maple stock is just awesome and so beautiful. The fit and finish is good, not great, but overall this is an extremely handsome pistol. It fits my hand well, has good balance, and the sights are nice and crisp.

But, we've got problems.

Unfortunately, I found two issues with the pistol when cleaning it. First, and probably least serious, is that the drum for the nipple extends too far into the breech area. When looking down the bore, the nipple drum sticks way out into the centerline of the bore. I don't think it's supposed to be like that, I shouldn't be able to see the drum. This is going to make cleaning the breech a chore since the drum will be in the way.

The second problem, is that this thing has a ROUGH bore. It was totally ripping up my cleaning patches, and the jag I was using is undersized. I could feel how gritty the bore was. Keep in mind this was after a thorough cleaning and degreasing. So I checked online, and it appears this is not uncommon for Pedersoli guns. I also read that I can fire lap the bore and this should solve the problem.

But, this is a $600 gun. Should I accept these issues? Dixie Gun Works has a great no questions asked return policy on their guns, which I've used in the past and they were totally cool about it.

So I am kind of at a loss. I really do like the way this gun looks, feels, points, but these are some pretty significant issues for such a pricey gun. I kind of feel like I should return it... or should I fix it??

I am just so confused right now... somebody please help if you can...

deerslayer303 · April 21, 2016, 08:39 PM

I would probably be ok with the rough bore as I would lap it. But that whole drum issue is a RETURN TO SENDER for me no doubt. Especially since, well that is a high end pistol and you should get better quality than that for the money. I would return it and ask DGW to inspect the new one before they ship it out to see if the drum issue was just an oversight on THAT pistol or if it is common to the lot of them. Just my .02 good luck and keep us posted.

r010159 · April 21, 2016, 08:39 PM

What does it mean to "fire lap" the bore? More on topic, is this an antique or a pistol made recently? If an antique, $600 is really insignificant. There will be problems to anticipate at that price. I would just find workarounds. If this is a more recently made pistol, I would return it.

Bob

Hawg · April 21, 2016, 08:42 PM

That's your call. Both are fairly easy fixes. In fact unless the drum is really sticking out you could just use bore mops to clean with and not worry about it. That's all I use anyway.

Gavlan · April 21, 2016, 08:54 PM

What does it mean to "fire lap" the bore?.

You usually, or at least I do put some very fine valve lapping compound on your projectile and fire a few, the compound smooths out the rough spots in your bore .
Probably not the "pro" way of going about it but in old milsurp rifles sometimes it helps.

Model12Win · April 21, 2016, 08:57 PM

Quote:

What does it mean to "fire lap" the bore? More on topic, is this an antique or a pistol made recently? If an antique, $600 is really insignificant. There will be problems to anticipate at that price. I would just find workarounds. If this is a more recently made pistol, I would return it.

Bob

Bob, this is a brand new Italian replica.

Fire lapping basically means polishing out the rough bore by taking some bullets and coating them in an abrasive compound, then shooting them. The gritty bullets help polish the bore, in a nutshell.

Kind of a PITA, but I could do it. The nipple drum though... that's not so easily fixed. I tried getting a picture, but I couldn't with my dumb cellphone! The drum is extending into the powder chamber and filling it about 1/3 of the way.

45 Dragoon · April 21, 2016, 09:49 PM

Mod.12,

You could remove the drum and shorten it to fit the thickness of the barrel.
The only fire lapping I've done (and it works rather well) is with cartridge guns. The idea there is the bullet starts off with the compound and looses it as it moves down the barrel. After several of these "firings" you should end up with a smoother and slightly tapered bore.
With a true "front stuffer", it may be more challenging. Maybe someone will give us a method of fire lapping front loaders.

BTW, I'm a fan of fire lapping!!

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

maillemaker · April 21, 2016, 10:05 PM

I agree the drum should not extend into the bore. That is going to make cleaning hard and may grab a patch.

I'm surprised about the rough bore. If you drop a AAA flashlight down the barrel, what does it look like? I thought Pedersolis were button rifled, which basically burnishes the rifling into the barrel.

I think I'd be a little put out for a $600 gun.

Steve

Model12Win · April 21, 2016, 10:26 PM

Steve,

Using my bore light, I can see that the grooves are pretty rough. The lands don't look as bad. When I drag the brass end of a cleaning jag up and down the bore, it feels almost like sandpaper. Without a doubt there are plenty of burrs down their and they shredded my cleaning patches. I also swabbed the bore with an Ox-yoke treated shooting patch and it did the same thing.

Guys, I'm thinking this one is going back for a refund. If this was a three or even four hundred dollar gun, I'd still be upset but this is a $595 gun and the fit and finish just aren't there never mind the bore issues. This gun is nothing like my Harpers Ferry pistol, which was cheaper than this one by about $150. Not sure if I got a lemon, but I really don't care. I'm not going to waste my money on something not up to par.

kwhi43 · April 22, 2016, 01:35 AM

For a reference here is my match grade Ed Rayl 32 cal barrel

drobs · April 22, 2016, 04:23 AM

Getting into some real money there. I'd probably send it back as well.

foolzrushn · April 22, 2016, 08:58 AM

My vote is: Send it back to Dixie with a note and your email/phone, explaining what you don't like (as you did here), stating that you would like one, but without these problems.

Tell them you would be willing to try another, but if all their inventory has these or other problems, you want a refund. And you want to be able to return the second one if not happy.

Then wait a day or so and when you think they have received it (tracking?), and follow up with a call. Perhaps they will inspect one for you, or decide that they must all be made the same, and just send a refund.

It's nice to know that Dixie will gladly take returns.....I have not had to do that yet.

Model12Win · April 22, 2016, 02:16 PM

Quote:

My vote is: Send it back to Dixie with a note and your email/phone, explaining what you don't like (as you did here), stating that you would like one, but without these problems.

Tell them you would be willing to try another, but if all their inventory has these or other problems, you want a refund. And you want to be able to return the second one if not happy.

This is exactly what I decided to do. Guys, this gun is on it's way back to Dixie. If they can get me one that doesn't have such problems, I'll take it for sure. If all of them are like that, no dice. Refund city ahead.

Not cool how Pedersoli made this gun. If I had to rate the job they did, I'd say "lame".

I'll keep everyone updated on this! Thanks all.

M12

Pahoo · April 22, 2016, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Getting into some real money there. I'd probably send it back as well.

It's a Pedersoli, new and just one too many issues for me, not to send it back. However, I sure hope that any follow-up on their part, meets or exceeds your expectations. I have had issues with used as well as new M/L's and each one takes a different measure and that includes, sending them back. The bore condition bothers more than the rest.......

Good luck and please get back to us.
Be Safe !!!

Model12Win · April 22, 2016, 02:36 PM

The only reason I sent it back was because of the bore. The smaller cosmetic imperfections weren't a huge deal, but the poorly fitted drum and and burr-filled bore that tore up my patches... sorry. Not going to accept that. Not for $600.

r010159 · April 22, 2016, 04:13 PM

Sending it back was the best solution. The bore should of been in very good condition.

Bob

BlackPowderBen · April 22, 2016, 07:48 PM

Good call model12

JohnCfromMD · May 23, 2017, 10:39 AM

I purchased the flint version of this gun. Pedersoli seems to have some issues. Recently, within the past two months I have seen several guns with problems. The first Moll I received had rust in the barrel, a Harpers ferry smooth bore pistol that was being given away in a raffle had a split in the stock, and a 1350 dollar Tatham and Egg target pistol I received had screws that were bunged with a loose screw driver.

As for the Moll there seems to be a difference between the barrel diameter and the chamber diameter. When I run a patch down the bore, it gets caught in the larger diameter chamber and must be pulled out with great force. This is not because of the touch hole insert, which extends into the chamber. I pulled the touch hole screw and had the same problem. It just seems to be a problem of the patch being punched into the chamber and getting stuck when you try to withdraw it. So, I clean the gun with a patch worm at hand to remove the patch.

Even at $600 these Pedersoli guns are cheaply made and not of the quality you might expect from an American custom gun, by far. Naturally, you will pay much more for a custom gun but then your expectation will be met.

Model12Win · May 25, 2017, 05:02 PM

I agree, John.

Sadly I have seen and handled many Pedersoli firearms in recent times that just do not justify the cost. I've since gone to American made custom guns, spending the (in most cases surprisingly little) extra money to ensure the product is made by people who actually care about quality and authenticity.

Pedersoli charges nearly the same cost as a custom rifle/pistol and they might look great from across the room, but look close and I'll bet the majority you find lack attention to detail.

I appreciate the fact that they make so many different replicas and they have made some really nice guns, I just think their QC as of late has taken a dip along with the global economy.

April 21, 2016, 08:30 PM	#1
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	Pistol Dilemma: Help! Hello guys! As some of you may know, I bought a Pedersoli Navy Moll .45 caliber pistol from Dixie Gun Works, and it arrived today: This gun is VERY pretty. Man, the maple stock is just awesome and so beautiful. The fit and finish is good, not great, but overall this is an extremely handsome pistol. It fits my hand well, has good balance, and the sights are nice and crisp. But, we've got problems. Unfortunately, I found two issues with the pistol when cleaning it. First, and probably least serious, is that the drum for the nipple extends too far into the breech area. When looking down the bore, the nipple drum sticks way out into the centerline of the bore. I don't think it's supposed to be like that, I shouldn't be able to see the drum. This is going to make cleaning the breech a chore since the drum will be in the way. The second problem, is that this thing has a ROUGH bore. It was totally ripping up my cleaning patches, and the jag I was using is undersized. I could feel how gritty the bore was. Keep in mind this was after a thorough cleaning and degreasing. So I checked online, and it appears this is not uncommon for Pedersoli guns. I also read that I can fire lap the bore and this should solve the problem. But, this is a $600 gun. Should I accept these issues? Dixie Gun Works has a great no questions asked return policy on their guns, which I've used in the past and they were totally cool about it. So I am kind of at a loss. I really do like the way this gun looks, feels, points, but these are some pretty significant issues for such a pricey gun. I kind of feel like I should return it... or should I fix it?? I am just so confused right now... somebody please help if you can...

April 21, 2016, 08:39 PM	#2
deerslayer303 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: Leesville SC Posts: 2,652	I would probably be ok with the rough bore as I would lap it. But that whole drum issue is a RETURN TO SENDER for me no doubt. Especially since, well that is a high end pistol and you should get better quality than that for the money. I would return it and ask DGW to inspect the new one before they ship it out to see if the drum issue was just an oversight on THAT pistol or if it is common to the lot of them. Just my .02 good luck and keep us posted. __________________ "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery." - Thomas Jefferson

April 21, 2016, 08:39 PM	#3
r010159 Member Join Date: January 15, 2016 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 94	What does it mean to "fire lap" the bore? More on topic, is this an antique or a pistol made recently? If an antique, $600 is really insignificant. There will be problems to anticipate at that price. I would just find workarounds. If this is a more recently made pistol, I would return it. Bob __________________ I am novice collector of Colt firearms. Recently I have been focusing on collecting antiques. Here are some of my "gems". http://s1380.photobucket.com/user/r0...0of%20Firearms

April 22, 2016, 04:23 AM	#11
drobs Senior Member Join Date: July 17, 2015 Location: South Central MO / Africa Posts: 1,111	Getting into some real money there. I'd probably send it back as well. __________________ NRA Life Member

April 22, 2016, 08:58 AM	#12
foolzrushn Senior Member Join Date: April 29, 2015 Location: middle of the Santa Fe Trail Posts: 396	Model12Win My vote is: Send it back to Dixie with a note and your email/phone, explaining what you don't like (as you did here), stating that you would like one, but without these problems. Tell them you would be willing to try another, but if all their inventory has these or other problems, you want a refund. And you want to be able to return the second one if not happy. Then wait a day or so and when you think they have received it (tracking?), and follow up with a call. Perhaps they will inspect one for you, or decide that they must all be made the same, and just send a refund. It's nice to know that Dixie will gladly take returns.....I have not had to do that yet. __________________ If you feel that you're pretty important...you should think about your significance to the Universe....and re-evaluate ! certified 'soap welder'

April 21, 2016, 08:42 PM	#4
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	That's your call. Both are fairly easy fixes. In fact unless the drum is really sticking out you could just use bore mops to clean with and not worry about it. That's all I use anyway.

April 21, 2016, 08:54 PM	#5
Gavlan Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2015 Posts: 108	What does it mean to "fire lap" the bore?. You usually, or at least I do put some very fine valve lapping compound on your projectile and fire a few, the compound smooths out the rough spots in your bore . Probably not the "pro" way of going about it but in old milsurp rifles sometimes it helps.

April 21, 2016, 09:49 PM	#7
45 Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2013 Posts: 656	Mod.12, You could remove the drum and shorten it to fit the thickness of the barrel. The only fire lapping I've done (and it works rather well) is with cartridge guns. The idea there is the bullet starts off with the compound and looses it as it moves down the barrel. After several of these "firings" you should end up with a smoother and slightly tapered bore. With a true "front stuffer", it may be more challenging. Maybe someone will give us a method of fire lapping front loaders. BTW, I'm a fan of fire lapping!! Mike www.goonsgunworks.com Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

April 21, 2016, 10:05 PM	#8
maillemaker Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2010 Posts: 1,635	I agree the drum should not extend into the bore. That is going to make cleaning hard and may grab a patch. I'm surprised about the rough bore. If you drop a AAA flashlight down the barrel, what does it look like? I thought Pedersolis were button rifled, which basically burnishes the rifling into the barrel. I think I'd be a little put out for a $600 gun. Steve

April 21, 2016, 10:26 PM	#9
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	Steve, Using my bore light, I can see that the grooves are pretty rough. The lands don't look as bad. When I drag the brass end of a cleaning jag up and down the bore, it feels almost like sandpaper. Without a doubt there are plenty of burrs down their and they shredded my cleaning patches. I also swabbed the bore with an Ox-yoke treated shooting patch and it did the same thing. Guys, I'm thinking this one is going back for a refund. If this was a three or even four hundred dollar gun, I'd still be upset but this is a $595 gun and the fit and finish just aren't there never mind the bore issues. This gun is nothing like my Harpers Ferry pistol, which was cheaper than this one by about $150. Not sure if I got a lemon, but I really don't care. I'm not going to waste my money on something not up to par.

April 22, 2016, 01:35 AM	#10
kwhi43 Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2008 Location: Kansas City Posts: 1,393	For a reference here is my match grade Ed Rayl 32 cal barrel

April 22, 2016, 02:36 PM	#15
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	The only reason I sent it back was because of the bore. The smaller cosmetic imperfections weren't a huge deal, but the poorly fitted drum and and burr-filled bore that tore up my patches... sorry. Not going to accept that. Not for $600.

April 22, 2016, 04:13 PM	#16
r010159 Member Join Date: January 15, 2016 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 94	Sending it back was the best solution. The bore should of been in very good condition. Bob __________________ I am novice collector of Colt firearms. Recently I have been focusing on collecting antiques. Here are some of my "gems". http://s1380.photobucket.com/user/r0...0of%20Firearms

April 22, 2016, 07:48 PM	#17
BlackPowderBen Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2015 Posts: 380	Good call model12 __________________ "If you have to shoot, shoot! Dont talk"

May 23, 2017, 10:39 AM	#18
JohnCfromMD Junior Member Join Date: December 13, 2010 Posts: 2	Problems with Pedersoli Navy Moll I purchased the flint version of this gun. Pedersoli seems to have some issues. Recently, within the past two months I have seen several guns with problems. The first Moll I received had rust in the barrel, a Harpers ferry smooth bore pistol that was being given away in a raffle had a split in the stock, and a 1350 dollar Tatham and Egg target pistol I received had screws that were bunged with a loose screw driver. As for the Moll there seems to be a difference between the barrel diameter and the chamber diameter. When I run a patch down the bore, it gets caught in the larger diameter chamber and must be pulled out with great force. This is not because of the touch hole insert, which extends into the chamber. I pulled the touch hole screw and had the same problem. It just seems to be a problem of the patch being punched into the chamber and getting stuck when you try to withdraw it. So, I clean the gun with a patch worm at hand to remove the patch. Even at $600 these Pedersoli guns are cheaply made and not of the quality you might expect from an American custom gun, by far. Naturally, you will pay much more for a custom gun but then your expectation will be met.

May 25, 2017, 05:02 PM	#19
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	I agree, John. Sadly I have seen and handled many Pedersoli firearms in recent times that just do not justify the cost. I've since gone to American made custom guns, spending the (in most cases surprisingly little) extra money to ensure the product is made by people who actually care about quality and authenticity. Pedersoli charges nearly the same cost as a custom rifle/pistol and they might look great from across the room, but look close and I'll bet the majority you find lack attention to detail. I appreciate the fact that they make so many different replicas and they have made some really nice guns, I just think their QC as of late has taken a dip along with the global economy.