Which factory .45ACP round uses small primers in their brass?

azonicdh · April 1, 2010, 10:32 PM

I'm looking for a factory .45acp round that uses small primers in their brass. Since I am loading 9mm and will be doing .38 special soon, I'd prefer to keep around just one type of primer. Also large pistols seem to be out of stock everywhere.

Thanks

RamSlammer · April 1, 2010, 10:44 PM

Winchester made some "non toxic" ammunition for use in indoor ranges with non-mercuric primers. The Headstamp is WIN NT. They use small pistol primers.

Generally these are the bane of .45 ACP reloaders. You may find folks willing to give this brass away. For sure contact the brass sellers advertising in the forums here and I would bet some have a stash of WIN NT they would part with cheaply.

Sevens · April 1, 2010, 10:50 PM

Fiocchi uses them, but not all Fiocchi .45 has them. I've got some Fiocchi that uses the large primer. (as it should be!)

Winchester also does it, but only in their "NT" ammo. (NT is their "non-toxic" pinko treehugger greenie ammo)

In my opinion you are handicapping yourself by willfully looking for small primer sized .45 Auto brass. It will be difficult for you to find... while normal .45 brass with large primer will be very easy to find. Eventually, you will be using whatever brass you can get, and when some of your small primer .45 gets mixed in, you'll blast one at the bench while trying to prime a case.

If/when that happens, I hope you have safety glasses on, no fingers near the blast, and no chain reaction explosions with other primers.

A horde of locusts on the IDIOT that produced or allowed the existence of even one single piece of small primer .45 Auto brass. Complete and utter stupidity.

Sevens · April 1, 2010, 10:53 PM

I cull any/all "NT" marked brass in any caliber in my supply. Not because of the primer size issue with .45, but because the flash hole on 9mm is noticeably larger. I haven't got the tools to determine if two rounds loaded exactly the same way using the same components, and only differing in flash hole size makes a big difference, but I've got enough GOOD brass that I don't ever intend to find out.

And I cull it to make sure that I don't accidentally swap some to another guy in a trade.

zippy13 · April 1, 2010, 11:09 PM

Let's hope you aren't mistaking the .45 GAP (Glock Automatic Pistol) cartridge, which has a small primer, for the slightly longer .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol). You wouldn't be the first person to be fooled.

Sidewinder72 · April 2, 2010, 06:50 AM

I do not pick up NT brass. I stick with large pistol primered brass. Just me.

**Unclenick** · April 2, 2010, 11:05 AM

To address the OP:

The aforementioned Winchester NT and the Fiocchi .45TCEB Leadless are the two commercial loads that come to mind. PMC had some for a time, but I don't know if that line survived? I'm sure there are others by now. A couple of guys have experimented with the larger flash holes and found no problem using standard primers with it. It exists because DDNT, the lead styphnate substitute used to sensitize non-toxic primers, has higher brissance and can't vent gas through a standard flash hole fast enough to keep from blowing the primer cup out. It needs the big hole and small primer volume to avoid excess pressure.

That said, the other problems mentioned need careful consideration. The primer shortage seems to be easing. Midway had Wolf small rifle primers on clearance recently for $129/5000. It's a good sign. I've seen large pistol primers at Gander Mountain and other retail outlets.

cheezhed · April 2, 2010, 11:53 PM

I found some speer cases in .45 auto that uses small primers. I did not notice any difference in the flash holes but I wont use them because of trying to keep them separate would be a big pain.

chris in va · April 3, 2010, 01:26 AM

Sheesh. The store down the road from me has primers overflowing their shelves. Then again they're asking $40.

ForneyRider · April 9, 2010, 03:44 PM

308 Win Palma brass uses small rifle primer for better accuracy. Also, BR cartridges use small rifle primer with 308 based case.

I wonder if the small primer 45 ACP brass offers better accuracy.

doctruptwn · April 9, 2010, 09:07 PM

I've seen both Winchester NT and Federal NT, Both non toxic rounds. Those thing really goof up your flow when loading on a progressive. I just through them out so I don't get tripped up on them again.

April 1, 2010, 10:32 PM	#1
azonicdh Member Join Date: August 21, 2009 Posts: 22	Which factory .45ACP round uses small primers in their brass? I'm looking for a factory .45acp round that uses small primers in their brass. Since I am loading 9mm and will be doing .38 special soon, I'd prefer to keep around just one type of primer. Also large pistols seem to be out of stock everywhere. Thanks

April 1, 2010, 10:50 PM	#3
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Fiocchi uses them, but not all Fiocchi .45 has them. I've got some Fiocchi that uses the large primer. (as it should be!) Winchester also does it, but only in their "NT" ammo. (NT is their "non-toxic" pinko treehugger greenie ammo) In my opinion you are handicapping yourself by willfully looking for small primer sized .45 Auto brass. It will be difficult for you to find... while normal .45 brass with large primer will be very easy to find. Eventually, you will be using whatever brass you can get, and when some of your small primer .45 gets mixed in, you'll blast one at the bench while trying to prime a case. If/when that happens, I hope you have safety glasses on, no fingers near the blast, and no chain reaction explosions with other primers. A horde of locusts on the IDIOT that produced or allowed the existence of even one single piece of small primer .45 Auto brass. Complete and utter stupidity. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

April 1, 2010, 10:53 PM	#4
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	I cull any/all "NT" marked brass in any caliber in my supply. Not because of the primer size issue with .45, but because the flash hole on 9mm is noticeably larger. I haven't got the tools to determine if two rounds loaded exactly the same way using the same components, and only differing in flash hole size makes a big difference, but I've got enough GOOD brass that I don't ever intend to find out. And I cull it to make sure that I don't accidentally swap some to another guy in a trade. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

April 2, 2010, 11:05 AM	#7
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	To address the OP: The aforementioned Winchester NT and the Fiocchi .45TCEB Leadless are the two commercial loads that come to mind. PMC had some for a time, but I don't know if that line survived? I'm sure there are others by now. A couple of guys have experimented with the larger flash holes and found no problem using standard primers with it. It exists because DDNT, the lead styphnate substitute used to sensitize non-toxic primers, has higher brissance and can't vent gas through a standard flash hole fast enough to keep from blowing the primer cup out. It needs the big hole and small primer volume to avoid excess pressure. That said, the other problems mentioned need careful consideration. The primer shortage seems to be easing. Midway had Wolf small rifle primers on clearance recently for $129/5000. It's a good sign. I've seen large pistol primers at Gander Mountain and other retail outlets. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

April 9, 2010, 03:44 PM	#10
ForneyRider Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2007 Location: Forney, TX Posts: 725	308 Win Palma brass uses small rifle primer for better accuracy. Also, BR cartridges use small rifle primer with 308 based case. I wonder if the small primer 45 ACP brass offers better accuracy. __________________ When all is said and done, there is a lot more said than done.

April 1, 2010, 10:44 PM	#2
RamSlammer Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2008 Location: Arkansas Posts: 722	Winchester made some "non toxic" ammunition for use in indoor ranges with non-mercuric primers. The Headstamp is WIN NT. They use small pistol primers. Generally these are the bane of .45 ACP reloaders. You may find folks willing to give this brass away. For sure contact the brass sellers advertising in the forums here and I would bet some have a stash of WIN NT they would part with cheaply.

April 1, 2010, 11:09 PM	#5
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Let's hope you aren't mistaking the .45 GAP (Glock Automatic Pistol) cartridge, which has a small primer, for the slightly longer .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol). You wouldn't be the first person to be fooled.

April 2, 2010, 06:50 AM	#6
Sidewinder72 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2008 Location: Kansas Posts: 130	I do not pick up NT brass. I stick with large pistol primered brass. Just me.

April 2, 2010, 11:53 PM	#8
cheezhed Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2007 Posts: 302	I found some speer cases in .45 auto that uses small primers. I did not notice any difference in the flash holes but I wont use them because of trying to keep them separate would be a big pain.

April 3, 2010, 01:26 AM	#9
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	Sheesh. The store down the road from me has primers overflowing their shelves. Then again they're asking $40.

April 9, 2010, 09:07 PM	#11
doctruptwn Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2008 Location: Kansas Posts: 197	I've seen both Winchester NT and Federal NT, Both non toxic rounds. Those thing really goof up your flow when loading on a progressive. I just through them out so I don't get tripped up on them again.