Reporting Unethical/Illegal Hunting Posts

oldbillthundercheif · February 18, 2008, 09:58 PM

Alright, lets see what y'all think...

One fellow posted his hunting experience on this forum today where he boasted of using a 9mm on pigs without checking that the exotic ammunition supplied by his guide hit anywhere near his usual point-of-aim. This is blatantly unethical from where I stand.

On top of that, it may have been illegal to hunt with a 9mm in the state where this took place...

Is it illegal to hunt pigs with a 9mm in Tennessee?

If it's not illegal, I guess I don't have a big enough problem with this to push it any more, but if it is, I think I should at the very least report it to the bar association of his home state (he is a lawyer at Fees and Burgess in Alabama), and Alabama's hunting regulatory agency.

I take illegal actions by lawyers very seriously, what do y'all think? Should we try to get this guy stomped to teach him a lesson or just leave him to his shifty ways and hope he shoots himself in the foot?

Speaking for myself, I guess it all boils down to TN law regarding hunting with small handguns. Any clarification on TN game laws would be very helpful.

retrieverman · February 18, 2008, 10:19 PM

I would strongly advice you to take what is said on any message board with a grain of salt.

hogdogs · February 18, 2008, 10:27 PM

I have since given' up in trying to offer info to law enforcement... Karma kicks my butt everytime... I learned my personal karma will have me in trouble shortly after snitchin'... Plus the fact that snitches get stiches and snitches are a dieing breed comes to mind...

Brent

Full-choke · February 18, 2008, 10:42 PM

Not all stories are true on the internet. A lot of guys flatter themselves quite a lot when they get on the forums. While we may view it as unethical and down right wrong, we can't stop them. We didn't see them in the act, otherwise we probably wouldn't even let it have happened. So just take it as it comes, say your penny's worth and be done with it. Tell them they were wrong and leave it be, and not to steal a post, but don't turn it into an argument either. It just makes everyone look bad all the way around. A level head and a proper response goes a long way.

F-C

TCman · February 18, 2008, 10:54 PM

On this one i would have to agree with thunderchief. If he is a poacher, he deserves to rot in a cell. You guys take up for him when he is disrespecting your own sport? I dont understand that at all.

Bitmap · February 18, 2008, 10:58 PM

If it matters so much to you why don't you look up the hunting rules and regs for TN and find out if it was legal or not? This thing we are using called the internet . . . you know, the one Al Gore invented.

Furthermore, it sounds like TN law enforcement should be involved if a crime was commited. I'm not sure that what you read on the internet would be probable cause.

hogdogs · February 18, 2008, 11:00 PM

No body took up for anyone...
I am not against a person using weapon of choice to hunt. Even the best shooter with the biggest round misses a clean kill sometimes... To me the only guaranteed clean kill is a point blank shot to the noggin or as I dispatch wild hogs with a knife to the vitals... I only meant in his thread to suggest the danger of shooting a hog with substandard caliber at unsafely close range.
Brent

DonR101395 · February 18, 2008, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Deer, Bear, Boar and Feral Hog Hunting

* Shotguns using ammunition loaded with single solid ball or rifled slugs. No restriction on number of rounds in magazine.
* Rifles, except those utilizing an artificial light capable of locating wildlife, using center-fire ammunition, in all counties except where regulated by legislative acts.
* Muzzleloading percussion cap or flintlock rifles, handguns or shotguns of .40 caliber (.40-inches) minimum. These muzzleloading firearms are legal during any gun season or hunt unless otherwise specified. Muzzleloading firearms are defined as those firearms which are incapable of being loaded from the breech.
* Longbows, compound bows, crossbows and other bows drawn or held by a mechanical device.
* Hunting arrows and bolts shall be of a barbless design and shall have sharpened blades.
* Handguns using any centerfire ammunition, except those with multiple shot, and having a barrel length of four inches or more, in all counties except where regulated by legislative acts.
* Weapons may be equipped with sighting devices except those devices using an artificial light capable of locating wildlife. Night vision scopes are illegal.

The SR9 has a 4.14" barrel so yes it's legal. Google is your friend

oldbillthundercheif · February 18, 2008, 11:06 PM

I'm unsure, that's why I put it up for debate.

My instinct is to mind my own beeswax, but my grandfather was the chairman of my home state's department of natural resources and he drilled it deep into my hunting conscience that you should always report bad hunting activity.

I'm not prejudiced against lawyers. Quite the opposite, actually. I do expect them to know better than to break laws and act like jackasses.

Nobody has stated the legality of hunting with a 9mm pistol in TN, though. If it ain't illegal I guess I really don't care.

EDIT: I guess it's legal, so I guess I don't care.

I did dig around for the proper regs but had not had any luck so far...

ActivShootr · February 19, 2008, 12:09 AM

DonR beat me to it.

The equipment used in the post in question is legal in The Volunteer State. If the animal was taken in a humane and ethical way, I see no harm done. I would only have a problem if the animal had only been wounded and not recovered. I think that the ammunition and caliber used were questionable at best and I personally would not reccomend the combination to a first time hog hunter.

However, having read the post and judging only by the information given in the post, I see no wrongdoing on the hunter's part. He had hunted wild hogs before and (apparently) was aware of the dangers that a wouned boar proposed.

I wouldn't tempt fate too much though. 'Tis better to have too much gun than not enough when you have a PO'd pig after you

Scorch · February 19, 2008, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Not all stories are true on the internet.

Ain't that the truth!

Quote:

My instinct is to mind my own beeswax,

In general, that's a good policy, but if you got him cold, then bust him.

Quote:

If he is a poacher, he deserves to rot in a cell.

More than likely, he would get a slap on the wrist, possibly a suspended sentence. That whole "birds of a feather" thing, you know. Lawyers call it a "professional courtesy".

Quote:

I have since given' up in trying to offer info to law enforcement...

Seems to be about my experience with alerting F&G about poachers.

Art Eatman · February 19, 2008, 10:12 AM

Repeat after me, "Our Father, this is the Internet..."

People claim to be from here, there or yonder. People claim to have done things. People claim occupations, they claim skills.

I won't claim, "I've seen it all..." but after almost ten years here I sometimes feel like I have.

Until you've been reading somebody's posts for some lengthy period of time, assessing consistency in claims or ideas, it's best to just keep the old salt shaker handy.

FWIW, Art

sourdough44 · February 19, 2008, 10:59 AM

Sometimes when I come to my senses I wonder why I look over some of these net boards. Much of it stays in the entertainment catagory. There is a lot of foolishness out there.

Ranger Al · February 19, 2008, 12:51 PM

It is legal to hunt big games with center firing only..

kingudaroad · February 19, 2008, 01:26 PM

Reminds me of the time I took out that charging grizzly sow with a perfectly placed shot out of my 380 auto.

The Tourist · February 19, 2008, 01:39 PM

Poaching deer in northern Wisconsin is known as "violating" here, and it is a "skill" that is handed down from father to son.

Now believe this or not, I have mixed feelings.

I hate slob hunters, as you know. Their carelessness and smug attitude show the non-shooting public that there is a faction of our sport that is a mob of drunken townies. Heck, I'd call the DNR on a slob hunter while he was standing next to me.

"Get off that phone, Chico! I have my boots off and I'm going to count to eleven and open fire..."

The problem for me is that I know many of the areas of northern Wisconsin. There are sections that are very hard pressed. Lots of businesses have folded. Many of those hunters are subsistance folks--they eat what they kill or go hungry.

If a guy like that violated the deer on his own land for the express purpose of feeding his family, then I have no problem.

The bubba who kills deer and bear for trophies is not in that situation.

Beretta16 · February 19, 2008, 02:01 PM

The hog died in a quick, ethical manner. Give it a rest. If it was illegal you think one mistake is worth him getting debarred? You need to lighten up and just mind your own business. Now if you encountered poaching first hand I would report it without thinking twice, but taking a story you heard on the internet to the man's employer?

ActivShootr · February 19, 2008, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Poaching deer in northern Wisconsin is known as "violating" here, and it is a "skill" that is handed down from father to son.

Now believe this or not, I have mixed feelings.

I hate slob hunters, as you know. Their carelessness and smug attitude show the non-shooting public that there is a faction of our sport that is a mob of drunken townies. Heck, I'd call the DNR on a slob hunter while he was standing next to me.

"Get off that phone, Chico! I have my boots off and I'm going to count to eleven and open fire..."

The problem for me is that I know many of the areas of northern Wisconsin. There are sections that are very hard pressed. Lots of businesses have folded. Many of those hunters are subsistance folks--they eat what they kill or go hungry.

If a guy like that violated the deer on his own land for the express purpose of feeding his family, then I have no problem.

The bubba who kills deer and bear for trophies is not in that situation.

What does this post have to do with ANYTHING we have been talking about? No one said anything about poaching. The question was if a 9mm is legal for hunting big game in Tennessee. IT IS!!!! You are beating the [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] out of a dead horse and are way off topic. Give it a rest.

tplumeri · February 19, 2008, 05:24 PM

Quote:

it's best to just keep the old salt shaker handy

I agree!
and i just happen to have a salt and pepper shaker set for sale on another thread.
Sorry. I just HAD to .
back to the OP:
Unfortunately, even if the guy WAS doing something illegal, unless you were there and filed the complaint and agreed to testify there would be no legal action taken.
call your local authority and tell em " i read on a forum post that this guy killed a pig with an illegal handgun..." and see what they say.

davlandrum · February 19, 2008, 06:07 PM

Kingudaroad - Come on, man - to make it a credible internet story, a .380 auto is way too big for a griz - maybe change it to a Red Ryder BB gun, and you had to bounce it off a tree in order to get it down the ear canal to the brain...

kingudaroad · February 19, 2008, 07:06 PM

But I don't have a bb gun.

tplumeri · February 19, 2008, 07:24 PM

Quote:

down the ear canal to the brain

Or a shot straight up the nose. thats how i got mine. of course it was very close quarters, the bear ambushed me from behind a tree while i was walking my pet ferret......

davlandrum · February 19, 2008, 08:09 PM

OldBill,

Sorry, I got sidetracked with the humor...

If I had a reasonable means of confirming an actual violation occurred, I would do my best to confirm it and then turn it over to LE.

Ethics is something we can try to influence by responses to the info, as I think you did.

I can encourage changes to the regs both as an individual and as a member of various hunting organizations to make them better from a ethics standpoint (caliber limits, for example). And soon, hopefully encourage ethical behaviour as a hunter safety instructor.

Personal ethics are a constantly evolving thing, as we are influence by our environment, hopefully in the right direction. I know I did some stuff "back in the day" that was legal, but would not meet my standard of ethical now.

rem870hunter · February 19, 2008, 08:25 PM

did it happen during legal hunting season?
did he atleast use the minimum weapon size and caliber allowed?
did he have a legal hunting license if needed?

if the answers to the questions is yes
then i guess he is is safe.

i saw a p/u truck many years ago with a dead deer in the bed, and an uncased bow with 2 arrows in the quiver. it was the middle of july. so wherever he shot it it was not legal. the guy was i guess on his way somewhere was driving it. so i wrote the tag number and make and model of the p/u truck down and as soon as i got home i called the hotline. it turns out they found him and the deer. as far as i know he got arrested for poaching. i only got a return phone call saying that they did find the owner of the truck along with a deer. that was not a roadkill. they did find an arrow wound or two in the carcass. now would i make that phone call if i saw something like that again. yup i would sorry but i would.

it makes me sick to see time and time again someone doing something and getting away with it, thats illegal though knowing darn well if i did it i would be caught and arrested or worse. i don't like stepping on toes i don't like to be a bad guy. and to those members of TFL.com who do right thank you i am glad to be a member.

kingudaroad · February 20, 2008, 12:31 AM

Quote:

it makes me sick to see time and time again someone doing something and getting away with it, thats illegal though knowing darn well if i did it i would be caught and arrested or worse

I'm not sure that's the best reason to do the right thing.

February 18, 2008, 09:58 PM	#1
oldbillthundercheif Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2006 Location: New Orleans Posts: 2,450	Reporting Unethical/Illegal Hunting Posts Alright, lets see what y'all think... One fellow posted his hunting experience on this forum today where he boasted of using a 9mm on pigs without checking that the exotic ammunition supplied by his guide hit anywhere near his usual point-of-aim. This is blatantly unethical from where I stand. On top of that, it may have been illegal to hunt with a 9mm in the state where this took place... Is it illegal to hunt pigs with a 9mm in Tennessee? If it's not illegal, I guess I don't have a big enough problem with this to push it any more, but if it is, I think I should at the very least report it to the bar association of his home state (he is a lawyer at Fees and Burgess in Alabama), and Alabama's hunting regulatory agency. I take illegal actions by lawyers very seriously, what do y'all think? Should we try to get this guy stomped to teach him a lesson or just leave him to his shifty ways and hope he shoots himself in the foot? Speaking for myself, I guess it all boils down to TN law regarding hunting with small handguns. Any clarification on TN game laws would be very helpful.

February 18, 2008, 10:19 PM	#2
retrieverman Member Join Date: August 20, 2007 Posts: 46	I would strongly advice you to take what is said on any message board with a grain of salt. Last edited by Art Eatman; February 19, 2008 at 10:06 AM. Reason: Signal remains; noise removed.

February 18, 2008, 10:42 PM	#4
Full-choke Senior Member Join Date: May 10, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 617	Not all stories are true on the internet. A lot of guys flatter themselves quite a lot when they get on the forums. While we may view it as unethical and down right wrong, we can't stop them. We didn't see them in the act, otherwise we probably wouldn't even let it have happened. So just take it as it comes, say your penny's worth and be done with it. Tell them they were wrong and leave it be, and not to steal a post, but don't turn it into an argument either. It just makes everyone look bad all the way around. A level head and a proper response goes a long way. F-C __________________ TC Encore -6mm Rem Rifle; Ruger 10/22; Ruger 10/22 Ultimate; Stoeger Condor 20; ; Remington 1100 12; Stoeger 22 Luger; Taurus PT1911; Ruger SR40c God gave us the gift of life. It is the most precious gift ever. To be unarmed is to be helpless to protect that gift; that is outright irresponsible. - Ted Nugent

February 18, 2008, 10:54 PM	#5
TCman Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 514	On this one i would have to agree with thunderchief. If he is a poacher, he deserves to rot in a cell. You guys take up for him when he is disrespecting your own sport? I dont understand that at all. __________________ Il keep my freedom, my guns, and my money. You can keep the change.

February 19, 2008, 12:51 PM	#14
Ranger Al Senior Member Join Date: January 21, 2006 Location: Fresno, CA Posts: 112	California It is legal to hunt big games with center firing only.. __________________ "Carry BIG STICK and walk quietly"

February 18, 2008, 10:27 PM	#3
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	I have since given' up in trying to offer info to law enforcement... Karma kicks my butt everytime... I learned my personal karma will have me in trouble shortly after snitchin'... Plus the fact that snitches get stiches and snitches are a dieing breed comes to mind... Brent

February 18, 2008, 10:58 PM	#6
Bitmap Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2001 Posts: 388	If it matters so much to you why don't you look up the hunting rules and regs for TN and find out if it was legal or not? This thing we are using called the internet . . . you know, the one Al Gore invented. Furthermore, it sounds like TN law enforcement should be involved if a crime was commited. I'm not sure that what you read on the internet would be probable cause.

February 18, 2008, 11:00 PM	#7
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	No body took up for anyone... I am not against a person using weapon of choice to hunt. Even the best shooter with the biggest round misses a clean kill sometimes... To me the only guaranteed clean kill is a point blank shot to the noggin or as I dispatch wild hogs with a knife to the vitals... I only meant in his thread to suggest the danger of shooting a hog with substandard caliber at unsafely close range. Brent

February 18, 2008, 11:06 PM	#9
oldbillthundercheif Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2006 Location: New Orleans Posts: 2,450	I'm unsure, that's why I put it up for debate. My instinct is to mind my own beeswax, but my grandfather was the chairman of my home state's department of natural resources and he drilled it deep into my hunting conscience that you should always report bad hunting activity. I'm not prejudiced against lawyers. Quite the opposite, actually. I do expect them to know better than to break laws and act like jackasses. Nobody has stated the legality of hunting with a 9mm pistol in TN, though. If it ain't illegal I guess I really don't care. EDIT: I guess it's legal, so I guess I don't care. I did dig around for the proper regs but had not had any luck so far...

February 19, 2008, 12:09 AM	#10
ActivShootr Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2007 Posts: 1,040	DonR beat me to it. The equipment used in the post in question is legal in The Volunteer State. If the animal was taken in a humane and ethical way, I see no harm done. I would only have a problem if the animal had only been wounded and not recovered. I think that the ammunition and caliber used were questionable at best and I personally would not reccomend the combination to a first time hog hunter. However, having read the post and judging only by the information given in the post, I see no wrongdoing on the hunter's part. He had hunted wild hogs before and (apparently) was aware of the dangers that a wouned boar proposed. I wouldn't tempt fate too much though. 'Tis better to have too much gun than not enough when you have a PO'd pig after you

February 19, 2008, 10:12 AM	#12
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Repeat after me, "Our Father, this is the Internet..." People claim to be from here, there or yonder. People claim to have done things. People claim occupations, they claim skills. I won't claim, "I've seen it all..." but after almost ten years here I sometimes feel like I have. Until you've been reading somebody's posts for some lengthy period of time, assessing consistency in claims or ideas, it's best to just keep the old salt shaker handy. FWIW, Art

February 19, 2008, 10:59 AM	#13
sourdough44 Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2007 Location: WI Posts: 621	Sometimes when I come to my senses I wonder why I look over some of these net boards. Much of it stays in the entertainment catagory. There is a lot of foolishness out there.

February 19, 2008, 01:26 PM	#15
kingudaroad Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2005 Location: austin Posts: 735	Reminds me of the time I took out that charging grizzly sow with a perfectly placed shot out of my 380 auto.

February 19, 2008, 01:39 PM	#16
The Tourist Junior member Join Date: June 20, 2005 Posts: 2,348	Poaching deer in northern Wisconsin is known as "violating" here, and it is a "skill" that is handed down from father to son. Now believe this or not, I have mixed feelings. I hate slob hunters, as you know. Their carelessness and smug attitude show the non-shooting public that there is a faction of our sport that is a mob of drunken townies. Heck, I'd call the DNR on a slob hunter while he was standing next to me. "Get off that phone, Chico! I have my boots off and I'm going to count to eleven and open fire..." The problem for me is that I know many of the areas of northern Wisconsin. There are sections that are very hard pressed. Lots of businesses have folded. Many of those hunters are subsistance folks--they eat what they kill or go hungry. If a guy like that violated the deer on his own land for the express purpose of feeding his family, then I have no problem. The bubba who kills deer and bear for trophies is not in that situation.

February 19, 2008, 02:01 PM	#17
Beretta16 Junior member Join Date: November 22, 2007 Location: MN Posts: 230	The hog died in a quick, ethical manner. Give it a rest. If it was illegal you think one mistake is worth him getting debarred? You need to lighten up and just mind your own business. Now if you encountered poaching first hand I would report it without thinking twice, but taking a story you heard on the internet to the man's employer?

February 19, 2008, 06:07 PM	#20
davlandrum Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2006 Location: Lane County Oregon Posts: 2,547	Kingudaroad - Come on, man - to make it a credible internet story, a .380 auto is way too big for a griz - maybe change it to a Red Ryder BB gun, and you had to bounce it off a tree in order to get it down the ear canal to the brain... __________________ U.S Army, Retired Ethics is knowing the difference between what you have a right to do and what is right to do. -Potter Stewart

February 19, 2008, 07:06 PM	#21
kingudaroad Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2005 Location: austin Posts: 735	But I don't have a bb gun.

February 19, 2008, 08:09 PM	#23
davlandrum Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2006 Location: Lane County Oregon Posts: 2,547	OldBill, Sorry, I got sidetracked with the humor... If I had a reasonable means of confirming an actual violation occurred, I would do my best to confirm it and then turn it over to LE. Ethics is something we can try to influence by responses to the info, as I think you did. I can encourage changes to the regs both as an individual and as a member of various hunting organizations to make them better from a ethics standpoint (caliber limits, for example). And soon, hopefully encourage ethical behaviour as a hunter safety instructor. Personal ethics are a constantly evolving thing, as we are influence by our environment, hopefully in the right direction. I know I did some stuff "back in the day" that was legal, but would not meet my standard of ethical now. __________________ U.S Army, Retired Ethics is knowing the difference between what you have a right to do and what is right to do. -Potter Stewart

February 19, 2008, 08:25 PM	#24
rem870hunter Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2007 Location: N.J. and trying to decide what state to move to. Posts: 973	did it happen during legal hunting season? did he atleast use the minimum weapon size and caliber allowed? did he have a legal hunting license if needed? if the answers to the questions is yes then i guess he is is safe. i saw a p/u truck many years ago with a dead deer in the bed, and an uncased bow with 2 arrows in the quiver. it was the middle of july. so wherever he shot it it was not legal. the guy was i guess on his way somewhere was driving it. so i wrote the tag number and make and model of the p/u truck down and as soon as i got home i called the hotline. it turns out they found him and the deer. as far as i know he got arrested for poaching. i only got a return phone call saying that they did find the owner of the truck along with a deer. that was not a roadkill. they did find an arrow wound or two in the carcass. now would i make that phone call if i saw something like that again. yup i would sorry but i would. it makes me sick to see time and time again someone doing something and getting away with it, thats illegal though knowing darn well if i did it i would be caught and arrested or worse. i don't like stepping on toes i don't like to be a bad guy. and to those members of TFL.com who do right thank you i am glad to be a member.