M41 S&W

Drm50 · November 10, 2020, 10:32 AM

I got original no dash 41. The magazines from S&W are marked 41-46-422- 622 ect. These mags fit but mag catch doesn’t lock on them. I know I could change parts in mag release but don’t want to do that. Has anyone modified these new mags by filing on the mag body? New mags $25 old used $100.

DaleA · November 10, 2020, 12:26 PM

Congratulations! A very fine handgun indeed. Have you had it to the range yet and if so how did it shoot? Do you know if it's been shot a lot? I’ve always been of the opinion that it would take a lot, and I mean, a lot, of shooting to cause noticeable wear on a fine .22LR pistol like the model 41.

The S&W 41 has had a special allure to me for a long time. When I first got into handgun target shooting as a relatively young man in a company sponsored pistol club (I bet that’s not happening a lot now days) the resident club champ shot a model 41 and I had a Ruger Mark 2. He regularly shot in the very high 90’s and at the time I shot in the very low 80’s. He had us switch guns one time and I shot the model 41 into the high(er) 80’s and he shot mine in the mid 90’s.

I think knowing what my gun could do was a spur to becoming a better shot.

I know for sure that for a time I lusted after a model 41 of my own but other things got in the way and I never got into serious competition where the possible three or four point advantage the model 41 maybe had over my Ruger was significant.

Hope you enjoy your model 41. I enjoyed recounting my experience with one.

DaleA · November 10, 2020, 12:58 PM

Magazines.
There was another thread on this site about "universal" magazines, that is, could firearms manufacturers get together and have common .22, 9mm, .45 etc. magazines? The answer is theoretically it might be possible going forward but nobody reading this site will probably ever live to see it.

But wouldn't that be WONDERFUL? Magazines would be easy to find and cheap.

For a short time I tried shooting a Colt .22LR conversion kit on a Colt 1911 in my company sponsored handgun league (I quickly switched to a Ruger Mark II that I still have to this very day). The conversion kit came with one magazine and when I tried to get a second one (this was long before the advent of the interwebs era) I either could not find one or the price was totally outrageous. ($25!!!)

The club champ in my above post explained it to me.

Once upon a time Colt firearms made X number of .22LR conversion kits and Colt Ace .22LR pistols. Then they made X and ONLY X number of magazines---one for each conversion kit and gun. Then a guy at the factory dropped one of the magazines and stepped on it and bent it up a little but the shameless cretin packaged it up anyway and shipped it out. The magazine worked, but not very well and forever after in the world there were X number of Colt .22LR pistols and X-1 reliable magazines for the guns and that accounted for their scarcity and high price.

It’s just possible we did as much gabbing as shooting in our pistol league.

Drm50 · November 10, 2020, 01:08 PM

I got two of them and been shooting them since 1972. Before Ruger MlI. I had a small collection of Target Autos. 41, Brn Olympic Medalist, Colt Woodsman Match and several Hi-Standards. Also had original Ruger Target, MI.
I now only have 3 old model mags and two pistols. That’s why I want to know if anyone has modified new mags to work in no dash 41.

Sevens · November 10, 2020, 01:24 PM

Universal magazines? This is as likely as all the car manufacturers lining up and making exactly the same series of engines, transmissions, auto glass, signal lights, etc etc. Dreaming and discussion is fun but let’s be realistic.

Magazine sales for gun companies is a massive cash cow.

Sorry OP, I don’t have an answer for you. I’ll bet the guys at rimfirecentral have all the answers though!

Pahoo · November 10, 2020, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Could firearms manufacturers get together and have common .22, 9mm, .45 etc. magazines?

Could but won't and in my book, shouldn't. It would mean that manufacturers, would now have to design their firearm, around one magazine. Another question is how competing companies, get together on anything. .....

Be Safe !!!

**44 AMP** · November 10, 2020, 02:25 PM

Manufacturers often make changes during the production life of a gun model. Sometimes these are announced with a dash number as S&W does, or a Generation name or some other identifier (new model, etc) but sometimes minor dimensional changes in parts are not announced, though they usually become fairly common knowledge in the gun community after a bit.

the first and biggest point is DO NOTHING PERMANENT TO THE GUN!!!
Swapping parts (mag catch) is one thing, and can be undone if desired, but DO NOT cut, file, grind, stone or anything else to the original gun.

IF some modification is needed to get the new (I assume new) S&W mags to work in your early model 41, you should modify the magazines, NOT the gun.

A thought, what does the packaging on your new mags say??

I'd suggest calling S&W and talking to some of their tech people, not just the receptionist.

There are some guns where only the original mags will work. IF you are in that situation, spend what is needed to get the original pattern mags.

If you can mod new mags to get them to lock in and work, fine but don't change the gun. Fit the parts to the gun, not the gun to the parts is a good rule to follow.

M41s are great guns, long regarded as the Cadillac of .22 semi auto pistols. Friend of mine has one, I've shot it, tis amazing. Gripping it is almost like putting on a glove, and he has a electronic sight seems like you have to deliberately work at it to miss.

It is, however still a .22 semi auto pistol, which are the most picky guns I know. Don't expect ALL .22LR ammo to run in the gun. Find what it likes, and what it tolerates and use only that. Not easy with today's shortages I know, but being picky seems to be the nature of the beast.

Good Luck, and enjoy!

T. O'Heir · November 10, 2020, 02:28 PM

What year manufacture do you think is "original"? My 41 is more than 30 years old.
The guys on Smith's forum say 41's other than one in .22 Short have never had dashes.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-w...sh-number.html
"...common .22, 9mm, .45 etc. magazines..." Far too many variations of actions. And the marketing department MBA's would go into apoplexy.

**44 AMP** · November 10, 2020, 05:45 PM

OK, to further muddy the waters,

How are the mags not locking in? too long? too short? Do you have any mag(s) that work??

I assume you got the gun used, M41s don't have dash numbers except for the .22 short M41-1.

SO its possible some previous owner "worked on" the magazine catch (or it might just be worn..??) so the gun might need the catch replaced,

If you have a mag that came with the gun (assume original) and it works, then the gun probably isn't the problem.

My friend no longer has his 41, he told me his gun was 90s production and worked with every S&W mag he put in it.

And just fyi, in 1976 the list price was $172.00
Ruger Mk I Target the same year was $86.50

Call S&W and see what you can figure out.

Good Luck, and please do let us know how things work out.

mikejonestkd · November 10, 2020, 06:06 PM

My Model 41 is a 5 digit serial number one made in 1959. It works with all mags that I have tried in it- original ones, a few from a mid 1970s model, and some newer ones too. I am guessing that your mags are modified, or the mag catch is broken.

FoghornLeghorn · November 11, 2020, 08:20 AM

Quote:

The guys on Smith's forum say 41's other than one in .22 Short have never had dashes.

I read that link on S&W. That's interesting. I've had the 41 at various times, but the one I currently have is recent manufacture. It's even drilled and tapped for a scope.

But according to the thread on S&W, not only the mags, but the parts, are interchangeable. And Smith never put dashes on the 41 except for the 22 short model.

The 41-1 parts are not interchangeable with 41 no dash models.

Learn something everyday.

T. O'Heir · November 11, 2020, 01:31 PM

"...parts are not interchangeable..." Certainly not mags.
"...even drilled and tapped..." Ever get into the 'HV ammo will damage a target pistol' argument? Lotta 41's are used to hunt tree rats.
"...the most picky guns..." Yep. It's one of the reasons you must try a box of as many brands of ammo as you can to find what will both shoot well and cycle the action. The worst part is that no two of 'em will shoot and cycle with the same ammo. And the price of said ammo means nothing. Same as any .22 but a 41 is waaay more particular.
Mine will shoot and cycle with Remington Target and the no longer available IVI Standard velocity. Still have a bunch of part boxes.

Master Blaster · November 11, 2020, 05:15 PM

I have Three model 41 pistols. 1972, 1997, and 2008 vintage.
I also have 25 or so magazines of various ages. They all work together just fine.

I shoot one of my model 41 pistols every trip to the range. I used to shoot the 1997 with a red dot in bullseye pistol.

The model 41 pistols I own are very reliable with cci standard velocity. Federal auto match also works well. They are most accurate and reliable with 40 g bullet weight and 1000-1200 fps rated velocity.

If you have feeding problems remember to clean the magazines. Wax coated .22 lr bullets leave a lot of residue that can slow down feeding.

Its important to have the correct spring, and to change it every 5000 rounds or so. Wolf sells model 41 springs. Use a heavier spring for high velocity ammo.

November 10, 2020, 10:32 AM	#1
Drm50 Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2014 Posts: 1,378	M41 S&W I got original no dash 41. The magazines from S&W are marked 41-46-422- 622 ect. These mags fit but mag catch doesn’t lock on them. I know I could change parts in mag release but don’t want to do that. Has anyone modified these new mags by filing on the mag body? New mags $25 old used $100.

November 10, 2020, 01:24 PM	#5
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Universal magazines? This is as likely as all the car manufacturers lining up and making exactly the same series of engines, transmissions, auto glass, signal lights, etc etc. Dreaming and discussion is fun but let’s be realistic. Magazine sales for gun companies is a massive cash cow. Sorry OP, I don’t have an answer for you. I’ll bet the guys at rimfirecentral have all the answers though! __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

November 10, 2020, 02:25 PM	#7
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,817	Manufacturers often make changes during the production life of a gun model. Sometimes these are announced with a dash number as S&W does, or a Generation name or some other identifier (new model, etc) but sometimes minor dimensional changes in parts are not announced, though they usually become fairly common knowledge in the gun community after a bit. the first and biggest point is DO NOTHING PERMANENT TO THE GUN!!! Swapping parts (mag catch) is one thing, and can be undone if desired, but DO NOT cut, file, grind, stone or anything else to the original gun. IF some modification is needed to get the new (I assume new) S&W mags to work in your early model 41, you should modify the magazines, NOT the gun. A thought, what does the packaging on your new mags say?? I'd suggest calling S&W and talking to some of their tech people, not just the receptionist. There are some guns where only the original mags will work. IF you are in that situation, spend what is needed to get the original pattern mags. If you can mod new mags to get them to lock in and work, fine but don't change the gun. Fit the parts to the gun, not the gun to the parts is a good rule to follow. M41s are great guns, long regarded as the Cadillac of .22 semi auto pistols. Friend of mine has one, I've shot it, tis amazing. Gripping it is almost like putting on a glove, and he has a electronic sight seems like you have to deliberately work at it to miss. It is, however still a .22 semi auto pistol, which are the most picky guns I know. Don't expect ALL .22LR ammo to run in the gun. Find what it likes, and what it tolerates and use only that. Not easy with today's shortages I know, but being picky seems to be the nature of the beast. Good Luck, and enjoy! __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

November 10, 2020, 02:28 PM	#8
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	What year manufacture do you think is "original"? My 41 is more than 30 years old. The guys on Smith's forum say 41's other than one in .22 Short have never had dashes. http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-w...sh-number.html "...common .22, 9mm, .45 etc. magazines..." Far too many variations of actions. And the marketing department MBA's would go into apoplexy. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

November 10, 2020, 05:45 PM	#9
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,817	OK, to further muddy the waters, How are the mags not locking in? too long? too short? Do you have any mag(s) that work?? I assume you got the gun used, M41s don't have dash numbers except for the .22 short M41-1. SO its possible some previous owner "worked on" the magazine catch (or it might just be worn..??) so the gun might need the catch replaced, If you have a mag that came with the gun (assume original) and it works, then the gun probably isn't the problem. My friend no longer has his 41, he told me his gun was 90s production and worked with every S&W mag he put in it. And just fyi, in 1976 the list price was $172.00 Ruger Mk I Target the same year was $86.50 Call S&W and see what you can figure out. Good Luck, and please do let us know how things work out. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

November 10, 2020, 12:26 PM	#2
DaleA Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2002 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 5,312	Congratulations! A very fine handgun indeed. Have you had it to the range yet and if so how did it shoot? Do you know if it's been shot a lot? I’ve always been of the opinion that it would take a lot, and I mean, *a lot, of shooting to cause noticeable wear on a fine .22LR pistol like the model 41. The S&W 41 has had a special allure to me for a long time. When I first got into handgun target shooting as a relatively young man in a company sponsored pistol club (I bet that’s not happening a lot now days) the resident club champ shot a model 41 and I had a Ruger Mark 2. He regularly shot in the very high 90’s and at the time I shot in the very low 80’s. He had us switch guns one time and I shot the model 41 into the high(er) 80’s and he shot mine in the mid 90’s. I think knowing what my gun could do was a spur to becoming a better shot. I know for sure that for a time I lusted after a model 41 of my own but other things got in the way and I never got into serious competition where the possible* three or four point advantage the model 41 maybe had over my Ruger was significant. Hope you enjoy your model 41. I enjoyed recounting my experience with one.

November 10, 2020, 12:58 PM	#3
DaleA Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2002 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 5,312	Magazines. There was another thread on this site about "universal" magazines, that is, could firearms manufacturers get together and have common .22, 9mm, .45 etc. magazines? The answer is theoretically it might be possible going forward but nobody reading this site will probably ever live to see it. But wouldn't that be *WONDERFUL? Magazines would be easy to find and cheap. For a short time I tried shooting a Colt .22LR conversion kit on a Colt 1911 in my company sponsored handgun league (I quickly switched to a Ruger Mark II that I still have to this very day). The conversion kit came with one magazine and when I tried to get a second one (this was long before the advent of the interwebs era) I either could not find one or the price was totally outrageous. ($25!!!) The club champ in my above post explained it to me. Once upon a time Colt firearms made X number of .22LR conversion kits and Colt Ace .22LR pistols. Then they made X and ONLY* X number of magazines---one for each conversion kit and gun. Then a guy at the factory dropped one of the magazines and stepped on it and bent it up a little but the shameless cretin packaged it up anyway and shipped it out. The magazine worked, but not very well and forever after in the world there were X number of Colt .22LR pistols and X-1 reliable magazines for the guns and that accounted for their scarcity and high price. It’s just possible we did as much gabbing as shooting in our pistol league.

November 10, 2020, 01:08 PM	#4
Drm50 Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2014 Posts: 1,378	I got two of them and been shooting them since 1972. Before Ruger MlI. I had a small collection of Target Autos. 41, Brn Olympic Medalist, Colt Woodsman Match and several Hi-Standards. Also had original Ruger Target, MI. I now only have 3 old model mags and two pistols. That’s why I want to know if anyone has modified new mags to work in no dash 41.

November 10, 2020, 06:06 PM	#10
mikejonestkd Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Brockport, NY Posts: 3,716	My Model 41 is a 5 digit serial number one made in 1959. It works with all mags that I have tried in it- original ones, a few from a mid 1970s model, and some newer ones too. I am guessing that your mags are modified, or the mag catch is broken. __________________ You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.

November 11, 2020, 01:31 PM	#12
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...parts are not interchangeable..." Certainly not mags. "...even drilled and tapped..." Ever get into the 'HV ammo will damage a target pistol' argument? Lotta 41's are used to hunt tree rats. "...the most picky guns..." Yep. It's one of the reasons you must try a box of as many brands of ammo as you can to find what will both shoot well and cycle the action. The worst part is that no two of 'em will shoot and cycle with the same ammo. And the price of said ammo means nothing. Same as any .22 but a 41 is waaay more particular. Mine will shoot and cycle with Remington Target and the no longer available IVI Standard velocity. Still have a bunch of part boxes. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

November 11, 2020, 05:15 PM	#13
Master Blaster Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 1999 Location: One of the original 13 Colonies Posts: 2,281	I have Three model 41 pistols. 1972, 1997, and 2008 vintage. I also have 25 or so magazines of various ages. They all work together just fine. I shoot one of my model 41 pistols every trip to the range. I used to shoot the 1997 with a red dot in bullseye pistol. The model 41 pistols I own are very reliable with cci standard velocity. Federal auto match also works well. They are most accurate and reliable with 40 g bullet weight and 1000-1200 fps rated velocity. If you have feeding problems remember to clean the magazines. Wax coated .22 lr bullets leave a lot of residue that can slow down feeding. Its important to have the correct spring, and to change it every 5000 rounds or so. Wolf sells model 41 springs. Use a heavier spring for high velocity ammo.