Freedom MUNITIONS Pricing

[pfisto22]

Good Evening,
So just like everyone else ammo has been a real pain. So about 3weeks ago I was online looking for 9mm ammo from the places I usually shop and to my my surprise what I wanted was in stock so I got 1k rounds at a bulk discount. Real nice so yesterday I decide to see if I could score some more and yes I see it is in stock, but no bulk pricing same price across the board. So I didn’t make a purchase as I assumed there was a problem on the site. So I called the business and was greeted by a very nice young lady, and I explained my concern. To my dismay I was informed that there will be no more bulk pricing and was told because Supply and Demand. Now I understand the current environment and that raw materials are hard to source which will cause price increase. I am not complaining about the base prices but to stop bulk pricing??My opinion is plain and simple PRICE GAUGING. Shame on them.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Old Stony]

It is just everywhere right now ! They have demand for their goods, so they up the prices a lot. Some of the places like Cheaper than Dirt are pretty famous for this kind of business practice.

[FITASC]

My opinion is plain and simple PRICE GAUGING. Shame on them.

First , it is GOUGING, and secondly, there is no such thing; you would be buying at the regular pricing. Thirdly, since you did not buy, you did not get gouged. And someone who pays their asking price did not get gouged because they WILLINGLY paid the asking price.
And what did this accomplish? You, who already had some, got miffed and therefore left some for someone else

[Aguila Blanca]

Is their price per box the standard price? If so, they are not gouging, they have simply stopped offering a discount for bulk purchases.

[Double Naught Spy]

but no bulk pricing same price across the board.

I am not complaining about the base prices but to stop bulk pricing??My opinion is plain and simple PRICE GAUGING. Shame on them.

What part of bulk price DISCOUNT did you not understand? Nobody has to give discounts.

Would you consider it price gouging if Walmart would not give you the sale price on a TV for which the sale had expired? That is what is going on here. The bulk pricing discount has been discontinued. If you want the great price you got last time you purchased, then you should have purchased more last time.

You are not entitled to always get a discount when it is no longer offered.

[pfisto22]

Wow much different responses than I thought. I understand that since I didn’t make the purchase that I didn’t get gouged but cmon there is no way your going to tell me-that this type of business practice is not price gouging. I feel bad for the small business people out there today but trying to pay the mortgage with every sale is messed up.
The definition is below

price gouging
an act or instance of charging customers too high a price for goods or services, especially when demand is high and supplies are limited:


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Road_Clam]

Originally Posted by pfisto22

Good Evening,
So just like everyone else ammo has been a real pain. So about 3weeks ago I was online looking for 9mm ammo from the places I usually shop and to my my surprise what I wanted was in stock so I got 1k rounds at a bulk discount. Real nice so yesterday I decide to see if I could score some more and yes I see it is in stock, but no bulk pricing same price across the board. So I didn’t make a purchase as I assumed there was a problem on the site. So I called the business and was greeted by a very nice young lady, and I explained my concern. To my dismay I was informed that there will be no more bulk pricing and was told because Supply and Demand. Now I understand the current environment and that raw materials are hard to source which will cause price increase. I am not complaining about the base prices but to stop bulk pricing??My opinion is plain and simple PRICE GAUGING. Shame on them.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

So if your looking for TFL members to offer you a hug, this is probably not the place. hundreds of thousands of panic stricken gun guys are all in the same situation. If your new to the gun scene than unfortunately let this be your first harsh lesson in regards to "gun panics" . We live in a world of supply and demand. If you want something that everyone else want's you are going to fight to buy, and you are going to pay more than is "normal". Sometimes WAY more. What you can do moving forward is PLAN for the next guaranteed "gun panic". Do as I did and buy as much as you can reasonably afford during the CALM political gun atmospheres. (like it's been for the past 3 years, prior to the pandemic). Lastly as I always preach, get into reloading and create independence. Even better get into casting bullits. Now lastly if your a seasoned gun owner who's been around many previous gun panics then simply stop whining as you should have known better...

[reddog81]

That’s not gouging. They have adjusted to the market rate right now.

Gouging is when is when a Florida keys gas station triples the price of gasoline over night because a hurricane is going to make landfall. Actual price gouging is when something is a necessity and the price increase is localized.

[FITASC]

That is still not gouging; if someone in the Keys didn't gas up before the hurricane, that's on them. And gas stations do not do that anyway - I live in Florida. That said, if the gas station might not be able to open for a several weeks afterwards, he still has bills to pay. This is what the small gun store folks are faced with. They do not know if or when they can get more product to sell, nor do they know what their next price will be. Retail prices are set based on what replenishment will cost, not what was just paid.

[reddog81]

Originally Posted by FITASC

And gas stations do not do that anyway - I live in Florida.

They don’t do it because it’s against the law.

[Double Naught Spy]

The definition is below

price gouging
an act or instance of charging customers too high a price for goods or services, especially when demand is high and supplies are limited:

Your situation doesn't even fit the definition you cite. No longer giving DISOUNTS is not price gouging.

You are a victim of You Snooze You Loose, which is all on you.

Look at it another way. Why do companies offer discounts, such as bulk discounts? They do it to increase traffic, to increase sales, to reach sales goals, to move old inventory, etc. Well, in a time of high demand, traffic isn't an issue. Increasing sales isn't an issue. Attaining sales goals isn't an issue. Moving out old inventory isn't an issue.

Right now, companies that sell ammo and guns have no real incentive to offer discounts. The discounts won't help them do anything that the high demand isn't already doing for them other than assuring that they make less money on product that is going to sell (quickly) anyway.

[KyJim]

In partial defense of the OP, Freedom is charging 65 cents a round for 9mm FMJ, way above the pre-panic price. However, EVERY dealer I've seen has raised prices and this is within the range of the "new normal."

I stocked up before the panic and have made a purchase here and there when the price was okay.

[FITASC]

I paid $.28 for 9mm fmj the other day ($13.99/50); no biggie; bought 45ACP for $22.99/50 and .22lr for $25/500

[FITASC]

Quote:
Originally Posted by FITASC View Post
And gas stations do not do that anyway - I live in Florida.
They don’t do it because it’s against the law.

Even if it wasn't against the law, it is still not gouging - NO ONE is forcing you to buy their product - period. Econ 101, free market supply and demand.

[reddog81]

Originally Posted by FITASC

Even if it wasn't against the law, it is still not gouging - NO ONE is forcing you to buy their product - period. Econ 101, free market supply and demand.

It’s against the law because in that case because it is price gouging.. Jacking up the price of a necessity like gasoline when a hurricane is coming is a classic example of price gouging. Laws against price gouging by definition throw free market supply and demand out the window and force retailers to hold prices constant when they would otherwise raise them dramatically.

Raising the price of ammo because demand across the whole US has jumped is not price gouging.

[FITASC]

Again, NO one is forcing you to buy from that seller; try watching this for an understanding WHY it is not gouging:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9QEkw6_O6w

[KyJim]

Again, NO one is forcing you to buy from that seller; try watching this for an understanding WHY it is not gouging:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9QEkw6_O6w

Watched the video. It's hogwash. It poses the first argument by referring to absolutes: "Is price gouging always immoral?" One of the first rules I learned as a lawyer is never use the terms "always" or "never." .

Scenario in the video: Devastating storm/hurricane leading to shortages. Buyer needs a generator to keep insulin cold for his diabetic young child. Rather than offering a generator for sale at the standard $800 price, the seller wants $1,300.

The commentator's first point as to why it is not immoral is that the buyer is free to pass on it if he does not think it is worth the asking price. But that assumes the buyer is able to pay the $1,300 but he may not. Is the seller acting morally when he costs a child its life for $500 extra in the buyer's pocket?

The commentator next poses the scenario where the generator would not have been available to the desperate parent if it had been sold earlier for the price of $800. But this assumes the earlier buyer did not need it for an equally compelling reason as our later shopper. And, keep it in mind, if there are "price controls" on the item, the first buyer cannot resell it for a higher price untill the emergency has passed.

His third point is that the artificially inflated price affects buyer behavior by effectively "reserving" some resources for those who might need them more. But that assumes too much. Suppose the multi-millionaire wants the generator to keep his wine cabinet chilled. The price of the generator means very little to the multi-millionaire. Now, the generator is gone even though purchased for a relatively frivolous reason before out desperate parent wanders by.

Point number four is that a profit incentive is created which means more generators will be brought into the area. This encourages others to bring in generators, increasing competition and eventually decreasing cost. But, if the generators are selling like hot cakes, as the commentator suggests, then there is already a healthy profit incentive because the merchandise can be sold quickly and the profits reinvested quickly to earn even more money. And additional costs due to increased costs of transportation, etc. are allowed to be passed along. Finally, to our desperate parent with a diabetic child, lower costs three weeks from now won't matter. The child will be dead.

So, that's the argument as to why it is immoral to price gouge on necessities during true emergencies. The commentator in the video simply tries to rationalize an immoral act.

Keep in mind that the scenario is not mine; it is the commentator's in the YouTube video.

[5whiskey]

I never really believed gun/ammo panics were true “price gouging” as defined as typically illegal. I understand some dealers are left with inventory they can sell at normal price for a 10% or less margin, but during panics they don’t know when they can restock. It may be next week, but more likely three months from now. So to have inventory and income during that time, prices are raised. Sales decrease, but the increased margin helps to recoup some overhead expenses and “keep the doors open” when there is no inventory to sell. I get that. I think many here do.

But... there are businesses that take this way too far. I’m for free markets. I think most or all of us are. But “free market” is a relative term. There have always been “regulations.” You can’t make an elaborate repro of an original Topps Babe Ruth baseball card for $.50 and then sell it for $1,000. Well you can, but you can also go to jail for it because it’s fraud by misrepresentation. A completely unregulated “free market” would make selling the fake ole Babe Ruth to unsuspecting collectors completely legal, if immoral.

Ultimately, capitalism is where you get to vote with your money. If you don’t like a company, don’t spend money there. I refuse to buy anything from CTD, and have since Sandy Hook. I don’t care how good the deal is there. If everyone worried less about finding the lowest price and more about finding the best value, these gun panics wouldn’t be half as bad.

[reddog81]

Originally Posted by FITASC

Again, NO one is forcing you to buy from that seller; try watching this for an understanding WHY it is not gouging:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9QEkw6_O6w

Your video explains what price gouging is and where it’s illegal. You really should watch it...

I’m not arguing if price gouging is immoral... I’m just showing one example of what price gouging would be by definition of law.

[44 AMP]

If little Timmy falls down the well and dies because widowed mom couldn't afford an AKC registered "Lassie" with all her shots and microchip is the breeder to blame because they are "price gouging"?

Not hardly.

Bulk discounts are perks. SO are airline miles and "cash back" credit cards. They are incentives to get you to spend your money on their product instead of someone else's.

Ending them is not, and cannot truthfully be price gouging.

Unless, of course, you consider every example of pricing above where YOU feel it should be is gouging. You can think that, if you want, but you'd be wrong.

[Pathfinder45]

It's just business; don't take it personal.

[gaseousclay]

I've hardly used the ammo i've purchased over the last 3 months and it may stay that way for awhile. But, i'm not going to complain about prices because I know that there are tons of other people out there trying to get their hands on some. With that said, prices have gone up and limits have been imposed. I think this is a good thing because it prevents hoarding. I'd rather pay a little more for ammo and still be able to get it, versus ammo being cheap and not having any to buy.

[44 AMP]

I think this is a good thing because it prevents hoarding.

I've got a different point of view. It doesn't prevent hoarding, it just prevents bulk purchases...

"Hoarding" is one of those terms that means something different to different people. One man's "hoard" is another mans "barely adequate supply".

Some people might say I've been "hoarding" ammo for decades. tis mine, I paid for it, I'll have as much as I want, thank you.
What I do find objectionable is the people that buy up the existing supply available, and THEN turn around and resell it for as much a higher price as the market will bear.

That's not hoarding, its monopoly capitalism.

[T. O'Heir]

It appears that a lot of the ammo makers are not working due to the Covid Panic. Then you get into simple supply and demand.
Both Midway and Graf's show nearly everything as being out of stock or not available or no back order.
"..."Hoarding" is one of those terms that..." Anything more than one box is called an arsenal up here. Sometimes one box is considered an arsenal. snicker.

[Mike38]

'Price Gouging' noun
an act or instance of charging customers too high a price for goods or services, especially when demand is high and supplies are limited.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/price-gouging

Are there firearms and ammunition distributers at the wholesale and retail levels participating in 'Price Gouging"?

Yes, yes there is.

Bang away at your keyboard all you want and tell me I'm wrong. Matters not to me. Is there price gouging happening right now on guns and ammo? Yes, yes there is.