What am I missing? 243 is frustrating me!

[rc]

I have 4 stainless model 77s. A 77 Mark II in 223, a Hawkeye in 223/5.56, a 77 Mark II in 308 and the last, a 2007 built 77 Mark II in 243 Winchester. All shoot good to excellent with many loads except the 243! I've tried hand loads with 70 grain Nossler Tipped and 100 grain speer sp bullets on top of 3031, 4350, 4831, 4895 and both Magnum and Non Magnum Primers. The rifle was free floated when I got it second hand and I put a pad back under the barrel with devcon expoxy at the stock tip like my other guns that shoot fine. The gun shot like crap free floated from the previous owner and still is shooting like crap. I scrubbed the barrel today and it's still shooting like crap. Typically 3 inch or more at 130 yards. I'm not sure if there is something wrong with this barrel, the bedding or my handloads which all feed and fire fine with no sign of excess pressure or chamber defect. The scope is a Burris Fullfield II in Ruger rings that worked fine before on my 308. The gun is nice and handles well. It's a shame I can't seem to get any kind of predictable accuracy from it. I have no idea how many rounds the previous owner put down the barrel to know if it's shot out but I suspect it may have been sent down the road because of the lack of accuracy. The rifling looks fine to the naked eye when I look down the bore. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[kilotanker22]

Could be any number of things. Bedding. Optic & Mounts, Crown and Harmonics would be where I would look first

[bamaranger]

Since the barrel had been "floated", I wonder if the previous owner had accuracy problems too? Also possible that in floating the barrel, the previous owner dorked the action bedding and recoil lug area?

Good luck with it.

[44 AMP]

What am I missing?

I have 4 stainless model 77s. A 77 Mark II in 223, a Hawkeye in 223/5.56, a 77 Mark II in 308 and the last, a 2007 built 77 Mark II in 308.

You're missing a .243 from this list.

Seriously, your problem could be a lot of things, or even combination of things, including a bad barrel.

Tracking down which is the cause can be frustrating, I agree. The best method is time consuming because it involves only changing one variable at a time.

Scope worked ok on a different rifle, so we can probably eliminate that (for now, anyway). Mounts/rings right? and tight??

Get and shoot some factory ammo, and see what results you get. If you get equally bad results with factory ammo, its probably not your handloads.

This leaves the rifle itself, where there are a lot of variables, most of them you've mentioned. Bedding, pressure (or lack of it) on the barrel, condition of the crown, etc.

Before you waste time, effort and expense trying more things, find a gunsmith with a borescope who knows what he's looking at (always the tough part) and have them check the bore, especially the throat, looking for cracks, checking and general erosion. The barrel might be "shot out", it can happen and a small bore large powder charge high pressure round eats barrel throats faster (fewer shots) than a round that isn't as close to "overbore".

The barrel might also have just been crap from the get-go, its not common these days, but it still does happen.

Alternatively, contact Ruger. They might have no help to offer, but you never know, until you check.

[rc]

I'm leaning towards a barrel issue since my other guns shoot 2 inches or less all the time and my 308 is particularly accurate especially with some 150 grain Federal Premium I picked up for $12 a box years ago. I have some GMX and Vmax bullets but I don't want to waste them if the barrel is toast. I probably need to clean the heck out of it with copper solvent and try a box of factory ammo but I don't think that's going to magically solve my accuracy issue since the 100 grain speer loads should have been decent groupers. Does anyone have a pet load for their 77 in 243? What twist should my 2007 rifle have? Do blue barrels last longer than the stainless ones shooting over bore cartridges? Is 243 a particularly tempermental round to load? No gunsmiths near me and I don't want to drive an hour to visit one right now with covid. I've fired the gun less than 500 times but who knows what the previous owner shot through it. The exterior looks excellent with the free floating being the only sign of damage from the previous owner. The stock around the action looks fine. Having said that it's still possible he shot the snot out of it and dumped it on the market because you can't consistently hit a 3 inch target at less than 150 yards with 70 or 100 grain bullets! I should probably do a scope swap with my 223 as a test of one variable. Doubt it's the problem but it would rule out one variable.

[jmr40]

I've fired the gun less than 500 times but who knows what the previous owner shot through it.

I'd have given up a lot sooner. Some rifles shoot, some don't. If one doesn't shoot I find it a new home. And I wouldn't need that many rounds do decide.

[brasscollector]

I had a 243 that was fussy once but not anymore.
If you think you have ruled out everything outside of the barrel a bore scope would tell you volumes about what is going on inside that barrel.

[NHSHOOTER]

I have to agree with jmr40 especially when it comes to ruger hawkeye, when you get 1 that shoots, keep it, if it dont after a few different rounds have been tried..get rid of it..Just my .02..I do have a stainless hawkeye in 243 and my pet load is..85gr speer BTSP over 41gr of RE15 CCI primer. seated 20 thousands off the lands..just shot that load last Saturday and put 3 in 1 ragged hole at 100 yds

[Rangerrich99]

All of these guys are far more experienced than I am about this stuff, but I didn't see this mentioned yet (though it may make no difference), but have you tried a different bullet? Maybe a different weight or shape?

I only mention this because i've had a gun (.223) that shot okay 2.25 groups at 200 yards with 55 grainers but shot excellent groups (0.75 inches) with 62 grainers. Also, the 55 grainers were Hornady V-Max, while the 62s were Nosler BTs. I'm not enough of a rifle guy to know why this could happen, but a buddy of mine that is more experienced posed the idea that the longer bullet stabilized better.

Just an amateur's thought.

[Colorado Redneck]

rc- If you have 500 rounds down the tube and you have never completely removed the copper fouling, thats the next thing I would do. It takes work, especially after that many rounds plus whatever might have remained from the previous owner(s). Once the bore is cleaned, try a couple different factory loads. If the gun still doesn't shoot up to your standards, get rid of it. One of the members here is a gunsmith and he stated one time that he often "fixes" guns that won't shoot accurately by getting the bore clear of copper fouling.
Just my $0.02

[rc]

I think that I have nothing to lose using some copper solvent on the barrel and scrubbing it. I will have to do it over a period of time for the copper solvent to work but it will be worth the trouble if it restores the guns accuracy. I had bought 500 pieces of brass when I bought the gun. I have not yet loaded and fired all of them so my round count is less than 500 and I'm sure less than 400 because I Know I have two boxes with 100 primed cases waiting for me to load them up for the first time. Given the previous owners removing the pad at the front of the stock I do think there was a known issue to the previous owner that was not disclosed when I bought the gun based on my groups so far. I thought I just needed to find a bullet weight or powder the gun liked when I got it, then I decided to replace the pad to stabilize the action, but results have been so bad with everything before and after the pad that trying to vary length of loaded rounds or adjust powder charge to find a sweet spot load haven't even been an option. I know my buddy was getting some bad accuracy with his Remington Model 7 308 after shooting all copper bullets and he had to really clean his barrel to restore accuracy. Then he got a custom stock and that gun can shoot!

[bamaranger]

When I read that phrase I assumed that the OP had taken the barrel down to bare metal and gotten all copper fouling. Recent posts make me wonder how the barrel was scrubbed and if in fact the barrel might just be severely copper fouled. I would absolutely use a good copper solvent or foam cleaner on the errant .243 and see what happens. A simple traditional Hoppe's solvent or similar CLP cleaning will not dent a badly copper fouled bore.

[rc]

I had only scrubbed it with a bronze brush and outers bore solvent till the patches came out pretty clean. I have some copper solvent I need to dig out but I'm not sure the best way to plug the barrel to really let it soak to remove the copper.

[Geezerbiker]

How old is it? Some of the older Ruger 77's weren't very accurate and required a rebarrel to shoot straight.

Tony

[rc]

It's about a 2007 Model with the rare blond checkered laminate stocks and bright stainless finish.

[jackstrawIII]

I'd have given up a lot sooner. Some rifles shoot, some don't. If one doesn't shoot I find it a new home. And I wouldn't need that many rounds do decide.

That's where I'm at too. I get mad at rifles that don't shoot well and they don't last very long in my safe haha.

Good luck!

[Geezerbiker]

A 2007 model is well past the time when Ruger had the accuracy issues.

You might consider having the barrel recrowned and glass bedding the action before writing it off.

Tony

[Pumpkin]

I have an old 80's vintage 77 in 6mm that did not shoot as good as I felt it should. Completely floating the barrel and glass bedding the action turned it into a new gun. Shoots most any load well and some handloads well under 3/4" for 5 shots at a 100 yds.

[bamaranger]

I've had very good results with foam bore cleaners, particularly Break Free foaming bore cleaner. No need to plug bore. Arrange rifle vertically, muzzle down in some type of soft plastic container like a butter tub. Squirt the stuff into the chamber till it spouts back up. Let sit an hour or so, then clean as you would with regular solvent. Repeat foam and let set overnight. Even my most severe copper fouler responds this treatment.

[T. O'Heir]

"...Typically 3 inch or more at 130 yards..." An M77 is a deer rifle. If it's consistently 3" at 100(130 isn't horrible but ballistics tables don't use other than 100 yard increments), it's called 'minute of deer'. If it's inconsistent groups, it's most likely the bedding.
In any case, pick a bullet weight(I'd suggest 100 grains. Speer has gone nuts and discontinued their 105) and work up a load.
How's the trigger?
A free floated barrel guarantees nothing. Some rifles like it. Some just don't. Bed the rifle(only out to under the chamber) and try floating the barrel.
The pressure point needs to be about 2" aft of the end of the stock. Not right at the end. And what you use for that pressure point matters. A wee dab of bedding material works.
None of those powders require a magnum primer. Using one won't hurt anything though.
Only use IMR4350 with 90 and 105 grain bullets myself. My rifle(a Cooey M71 Acraglas bedded into a Win M70A stock) is not up to great accuracy, but it's consistently 2 or 3 inches at 100.

[rc]

Well, I'm not giving up on the 243 barrel yet. Based on my experience with my other 77s I don't think the bedding is causing it to shoot so wildly. I found some Hoppe's #9 Bench Rest Copper Solvent, a new Rod and some Brass Jags and the right sized patches I had squirreled away and I've been running wet patches down the bore and letting the bore sit for 30 minutes to a few hours doing other things between working patches down the bore. Been getting bright green patches out after giving the copper solvent time to work so I know there is plenty of copper in the barrel. I also ran some copper solvent down my 97 vintage Mark II in 223 and it's 1:12 barrel is not nearly as copper fouled as the 243 with much lighter green patches coming out of that gun. It's possible the previous owner was shooting some of those light loads near 4000fps down the bore and really fouled it up and I've just added to the problem not being agressive enough cleaning out the bore! My fingers are crossed that some patience cleaning it out in more than just a cursory manner to remove fouling will pay off with a gun that shoots well under 2 inches at 130 yards with anything load I feed it! I will also know that copper solvent will be a must for cleaning the gun after every 50 to 100 rounds from now on.

[std7mag]

Bench rest shooters i run with use a mix of Sweets, and Hoppes #9.
Wet patch. Let sit overnight. Scrub in morning.

Bear in mind, that after getting all the copper out, it's not uncommon for a Ruger to take upwards of 50 rounds to settle in and shoot proper afterwards.

Ruger will more than likely do nothing for you accuracy wise.
Once free floated, the accuracy warranty is void.

[Jack O'Conner]

My .243 rifle shoots best with 95 grain bullets by Nosler.

Jack

[rc]

Jack is your 243 a Ruger or another brand?

I am looking forward to putting some rounds down range and see how my results have been affected by the copper removal. I ran a few more wet soak for awhile then dry patch to see what would come out and the last time the patch had a minimal amount of green so I followed up with outers bore solvent to wipe out any remaining crud and the patch looked pretty clean. Now if I would have let copper solvent sit in the barrel over night it may have gotten more out of the pores but I think I've removed enough to give the barrel a fair chance to shoot well. The rifling looks pretty good looking down the bore. I am wondering if like leading, once it gets to a certain point the bullets start swaging down and the stripping of material from the bullets dramatically increases.

[stagpanther]

I worked on a rifle recently that had heavily fouled rifling and was shooting erratically, it wasn't very old and didn't have that many cartridges through it. I spent a couple days getting the rifling clean, but within a few shots they became fouled quickly, I finally noticed that there was a lot of chatter in the rifling grooves that appeared to be stripping copper from the bullet with each shot. It became an exercise in getting a few accurate shots off and then a heavy cleaning ritual. I finally decided it was time to get a quality borecam.