224 Valkyrie - Page 2

TrueBlue711 · January 5, 2018, 09:59 AM

Quote:

"Another big difference is the BC. 22 Nosler has a BC of around .34 and the 224 has a BC around a .53 or .56...pretty big difference, which is why the 224 can shoot 1000+ yds better than any other round that fits in a standard AR."
Actually, no this is NOT a difference between the cartridges themselves. It's a difference in the barrel twist and the bullet length which will be loaded.

I'm sorry, but it is a difference. Ballistic coefficient (BC) is a separate subject from barrel twist and has to do with the size, weight and shape of the bullet. See below:
"In ballistics, the ballistic coefficient (BC) of a body is a measure of its ability to overcome air resistance in flight. It is inversely proportional to the negative acceleration: a high number indicates a low negative acceleration--the drag on the projectile is small in proportion to its mass."

Mobuck · January 5, 2018, 11:04 AM

I'm sorry, but the difference is in the barrel specs that allows the use of heavier bullets NOT the cartridge.

TrueBlue711 · January 5, 2018, 12:06 PM

So you're telling me with a straight face that the BC of a bullet doesn't matter? Then why even have it? Why do ballistic calculators not even consider the rifling of the barrel or barrel length? The top 3 things considered in any ballistic calculator is the bullet weight, BC and muzzle velocity. The barrel absolutely affects muzzle velocity, no doubt. And I agree that the barrel twist rate and quality does affect the stability of the bullet. But to say the BC of a bullet has no effect on it after it leaves the barrel is incorrect.

Just go to any ballistics calculator and plug in the data. Being generous, I used the following data:

22 Nosler: Bullet weight=77, BC=.34, Muzzle Velocity=3100fps
224 Valk: Bullet weight=90, BC=.56, Muzzle Velocity=2700.

That's a heavier and slower bullet for 224 in this case. You'll see that the 22 Nosler's velocity drops below the speed of sound around 900-1000 yards (give or take 100 and depending on atmospheric conditions). Then plug in the data for the 224 Valk and it stays supersonic past 1300 yards.

FrankenMauser · January 5, 2018, 03:46 PM

So shove the 90 gr GMMK into .22 Nosler, and the 77 gr bullet into .224 Valkyrie, and compare again.
It isn't the cartridge. It's the bullet.

TrueBlue711 · January 5, 2018, 04:00 PM

Quote:

It isn't the cartridge. It's the bullet.

That's what I'm trying to say.

Mobuck · January 5, 2018, 07:23 PM

"That's what I'm trying to say."

No, you're trying to say that a cartridge is superior based on dis-similar bullet weights.

Palmetto-Pride · January 6, 2018, 09:47 PM

This round was developed specifically to fit within the limitations of the AR15 magazine. Pushing .224 90gn bullet is intriguing, but this is something that the 22-250 (in a bolt gun) could have done along time ago if the bullet and twist rate had been developed for it. I can't lie when I can get a barrel and bolt at a decent price I will probably play with it for the heck of it mainly because I have a few ARs sitting in the safe now I don't shoot very often so why not I have all the tools already and it would take all of 30-45 min to convert a AR I already have.

MagnumWill · January 7, 2018, 10:31 AM

If only they made that darn AR mag well an 1/8” longer in the first place, we wouldn’t be having this conversation!

Well, perhaps we would, it would just be trying to get to 1,500 yards instead of 1,300...

bedlamite · January 7, 2018, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagnumWill

If only they made that darn AR mag well an 1/8” longer in the first place, we wouldn’t be having this conversation!

There was some talk a while back about steel magazines for the LWRC Six8, but they never went into production.

ed308 · January 7, 2018, 03:20 PM

I keep hoping for a steel Six8 mag. Maybe one day. Regarding the 1/8", could always window the front of a mag and you got your 1/8". Could gain even more by putting groves in the front of the magwell.

TrueBlue711 · January 8, 2018, 09:27 AM

Quote:

No, you're trying to say that a cartridge is superior based on dis-similar bullet weights.

I think you forget what BC means. I've been talking about the BC differences almost the entire time. The BC has to do with the bullet, not the cartridge.

50 shooter · January 8, 2018, 09:25 PM

PRI makes what are probably the best 6.8 mags if you're looking for some. Heavy duty and seamless welds, check them out at www.precisionreflex.com

January 5, 2018, 12:06 PM	#28
TrueBlue711 Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2011 Posts: 489	So you're telling me with a straight face that the BC of a bullet doesn't matter? Then why even have it? Why do ballistic calculators not even consider the rifling of the barrel or barrel length? The top 3 things considered in any ballistic calculator is the bullet weight, BC and muzzle velocity. The barrel absolutely affects muzzle velocity, no doubt. And I agree that the barrel twist rate and quality does affect the stability of the bullet. But to say the BC of a bullet has no effect on it after it leaves the barrel is incorrect. Just go to any ballistics calculator and plug in the data. Being generous, I used the following data: 22 Nosler: Bullet weight=77, BC=.34, Muzzle Velocity=3100fps 224 Valk: Bullet weight=90, BC=.56, Muzzle Velocity=2700. That's a heavier and slower bullet for 224 in this case. You'll see that the 22 Nosler's velocity drops below the speed of sound around 900-1000 yards (give or take 100 and depending on atmospheric conditions). Then plug in the data for the 224 Valk and it stays supersonic past 1300 yards.

January 5, 2018, 03:46 PM	#29
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	So shove the 90 gr GMMK into .22 Nosler, and the 77 gr bullet into .224 Valkyrie, and compare again. It isn't the cartridge. It's the bullet. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

January 6, 2018, 09:47 PM	#32
Palmetto-Pride Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2009 Location: Charleston, SC Posts: 2,071	This round was developed specifically to fit within the limitations of the AR15 magazine. Pushing .224 90gn bullet is intriguing, but this is something that the 22-250 (in a bolt gun) could have done along time ago if the bullet and twist rate had been developed for it. I can't lie when I can get a barrel and bolt at a decent price I will probably play with it for the heck of it mainly because I have a few ARs sitting in the safe now I don't shoot very often so why not I have all the tools already and it would take all of 30-45 min to convert a AR I already have. __________________ “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.” -Margaret Thatcher-

January 7, 2018, 10:31 AM	#33
MagnumWill Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2009 Location: Central Colorado Posts: 1,001	If only they made that darn AR mag well an 1/8” longer in the first place, we wouldn’t be having this conversation! Well, perhaps we would, it would just be trying to get to 1,500 yards instead of 1,300... __________________ Those who hammer their swords into plow shares will plow for those who didn't...

January 8, 2018, 09:25 PM	#37
50 shooter Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2002 Location: SoCal PRK Posts: 986	PRI makes what are probably the best 6.8 mags if you're looking for some. Heavy duty and seamless welds, check them out at www.precisionreflex.com __________________ I see the world thru bloodshot eyes Streets filled with blood from distant lies The dogs of war never compromise, No time for rearranging.

January 5, 2018, 11:04 AM	#27
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	I'm sorry, but the difference is in the barrel specs that allows the use of heavier bullets NOT the cartridge.

January 5, 2018, 07:23 PM	#31
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	"That's what I'm trying to say." No, you're trying to say that a cartridge is superior based on dis-similar bullet weights.

January 7, 2018, 03:20 PM	#35
ed308 Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2016 Location: DFW, TX Posts: 1,147	I keep hoping for a steel Six8 mag. Maybe one day. Regarding the 1/8", could always window the front of a mag and you got your 1/8". Could gain even more by putting groves in the front of the magwell.