Can anyone tell me what happened to this brass

[Wendyj]

I don't have any steel wool but will get some tomorrow. I did take a piece of brass an hour or so ago and bypassed the drill. Thor three wipes around with fingers took ring scratches out also.

[GWS]

You mentioned "what came in the Kit". What kit did you buy?

Also before you sized how did you prep (clean) the brass for sizing?

I don't own a v block. But it sure looks interesting. My next step is to buy husband dies and trim gauge for his 7 mag. Is there any treatment I should apply to new dies? If so I'd like to get it tomorrow if it's been my fault. I just put them in. Lubed bullets and sized. Lee doesn't say anything about cleaning or prepping dies out of the box.

Die sets often have cutting oil and or anti-rust treatment to new dies simply to make sure they get to the customer pristine. Lee may clean theirs of cutting oil and therefore grinding residue, but nobody's perfect. Either way they will leave anti-rust spray in them. Just rinse them in mineral spirits, or a gun cleaner likes Hoppes, and wipe dry with a clean rag or paper towel.

Depending on where you live (humid climate or not) you may want to oil you dies when you are storing them for a while. Then of course clean them up again befor you use them. Every few loading sessions its good to clean the brass debris and lube from the dies, as well.

The stumper on this mystery is that the brass is pushed vertically into the die. When they scratch brass it's vertically not around a perfect circle. That's why I'm asking about before sizing......in the lesser light maybe.

[Wendyj]

Lee challenger kit. Press, hand priming tool, she'll holders, lube, hand trimmer, press trimmer, deburring tool, primer cleaning tool and one lock ring. Picked up media cleaner, digital and analog calipers. Came with scale but I bought two digital scales to double and triple check myself. Also came with perfect powder measure but I weigh every grain. I've been cleaning with corn cob media. Lubing. Resizing. Then trimming cases and primer pockets. De burring. Measuring all trimmed cases and putting powder in and seating bullets to spec. That's all my loading manuals have taught me. The rest I've learned from the good people on here. I've got a long ways to go but I'm loving every minute of it. Been reloading in my sleep.

[GWS]

Reread my last post as I tried to answer your other questions.

I'm suspecting it happened while you used the Lee Hand Trimmer. Not that the tool itself would normally do it......you may have just held your mouth right.

I have three daughters that love to shoot.......their husbands....less so. I really ought to teach them to reload, huh!

[mehavey]

Lee Hand [drill] Trimmer

+1 as to possible cause
Where does the mark occur relative to the case inserted in the trimmer mouth?

[Ifishsum]

The marks look like they are from the Lee deburring tool and they are harmless. Nothing with your dies that I can see making a mark like that, but I have seen the same ring on my own brass from the Lee deburring tool. It's one of the first thing I replaced (with an L.E. Wilson "rocket" chamfer/debur tool).

[Wendyj]

Can't be from trimming or deburring tool. I size on the press but bring drill and case plus brass over to my chair in front of tv to do the not so much concentration work. I inspect the brass before trimming and after. Before is when I noticed the rings. I'm way too new not to do a lot of double and triple checking. You are correct though as the deburring tool falls right in line with that ring. I might think that if it had been only Hornady brass as I might have done it on last loading. Nosler brass had never been reloaded. Was all factory I had shot last weekend. Lee sent me email after I sent pictures and advised I back off from 1/4 turn to an 1/8 of a turn and see if that might fix it. Trading their dies out today and heading to firing range. I still have 40 pieces of brass I've loaded with 165 gr bt that don't have rings. I'll see when I get back I guess. Until I shoot I'm out of brass.

[Longshot4]

I have found that to inspect each case during each process I am able to catch and correct problems as I find them. If you were inspecting as I mentioned you would have found the problem. Take a clean case and put it through the process and you should be able to find the issue. Always inspect as you go.

[1stmar]

I don't see how a sizing die could make that ring unless 1 of two things is occurring:
You are twisting the case while sizing (doubtful)
The sizing die has a sharp ring that scrapes the brass down to a stop point. Don't see an scrapes on the brass.

How would the sizing die create a ring around the case ?

[JeepHammer]

Manufacturing Process glitch...

When I make a sizing die for wildcat rounds,
I cut it out of graphite,
Drill the tool steel body to general shape,

Use the graphite positive of the case/bullet to EDM (Electronic Discharge Machining) to size,

Then polish the die with lapping compound with a positive, to EXACT inside dimensions.

A CNC wire fed EDM could cut that die without cutting/building positives for the EDM process.
Just polish when it comes off the EDM...

EDM can also work in pre-hardened tool steel which saves a ton of time and money...

It would only take a flicker in the power to have an EDM cut that groove in the die...
The Die would still pass Go/NoGo inspections, and it would get boxed up with the rest.

It's just time for the manufacturer to choke up a new die without the flaw.

[stubbicatt]

I cannot say for sure, but those concentric rings would have me worried about case separation. Perhaps do a paperclip test, and see if there is a corresponding lack of brass in a ring like depression inside the cases at the point where you see the ring on the outside.

Given the axial nature of the resizing process, if there were a fault with the die, it would leave axial marks on your cases, or marks running along the axis from case mouth to case head. It seems unlikely that a sizing die would leave that mark.

I have had milsurp brass separate at that point before after one or two loadings, leaving the front half stuck in the chamber.

[condor bravo]

Pay attention to what Stubbicatt is saying and do the paperclip test on the cases. If any inside indention is perceived anywhere in the case, consider that to mean pending case separation, probably caused by oversizing and setting the shoulder back excessively. After the next firing the case will stretch back to its full length and the case will be thinned slightly at some point, usually near the case head but Stubbicatt says it has occurred in the forward section of his milsurp cases. Then after several over sizings and re-firings the stretch point can give way, resulting in a case separation and then you may have problems. Like others have said, I see no way that the die could be responsible for the rings. Back off some on the sizing die and see if the sized cases will chamber properly. Do not set the shoulders back unless necessary for proper sizing and chambering.

[Wendyj]

Went to range. Fired them all after I uded scotch brite pad and they went away. I had already done paper clip test. Used dremmel tool and cut one open. Nothing inside. Returned dies this morning. Got new ones to replace. Now just wondering if these need some sort of cleaning or treating before using. Also had found some varget powder. Loaded up some 180 gr nosler bt with 40 gr and some with 41.5. Worse groups using 41.5. Little over an inch. Got fairly decent for me with 40 gr at .801. Benchmark powder at 40 grains and 165 gr nosler bt still outdoing it. Three shot group cold barrell at .684. About the same as they did last weekend. Now I have to try and figure out how long to make coal. Guy at range had loaded several 308 and was shooting 1 hole groups with match ammo for the most. He told me to take needle nose pliers and make small dent in cartridge put sharpie marks on cartridge and insert close bolt and find mark on bullet then set back .005. I had loaded these at 2.795 close staying below the 2.80 Hodgdon recommended. Trying what he said it sets around 2.920. Not sure I done this right. Only saw on slight mark where sharie got wiped off. More to learn everyday.

[Paul B.]

I read the OP's original post yesterday and have been thinking off and about it ever since. First, no way do I think it's the dies. I was thinking that there might be a very slight defect in the chamber with a very small raised ring but then the OP said a factory round did not get the ring and apparently, if I understand it correctly it hasn't happened again with reloads so I'm scratching my head just like everyone else. Those rings in that brass are too even and precise which still leads me to believe it was caused by the chamber. About all the OP can do is keep an eye on the brass and see if it happens again. Other than that I don't think it's a cause for worry at this point.
Paul B.

[Wendyj]

Paul. I shot 6 factory rounds at range today with my reloads. Factory brass was flawless. Just put new die in and set it to just where it touched the brass. No extra 1/3 or 1/4 of a turn. No rings but also new dies. Definitely not from rifle. After sizing brass fit fine in headspace guage. Lee asked me to back the die up even though their manual suggests the extra 1/4 turn. I'm stumped. Put the Hornady one shot and Lee lube aside and used bag balm. Sure works smoother than anything I've tried so far.

[Sport45]

My money's on the Lee deburring tool. I've seen that same line on many, many cases.

I know you said it can't be, but I still think it is.

[Wendyj]

Well, I found out one thing. Lee was wrong. You have to have that 1/3 extra turn. Or I do. Brass wouldn't fit in headspace guage without it. New dies didn't put rings on brass. Checking out of tumbler. Before sizing. After sizing. After trimming. After deburring. After seating bullet. Don't crimp for bolt rifle so that's my last step. I did mess up on 10 bullets last night. First time I didn't use 2 scales and thought I was loading 41 grains of varget under 180 gr bt. Scale started losing zero and found I was only loading 38.5 gr of varget. 2.5 grains lower than lowest specs. Not sure if that's dangerous or not. I intend to finish off these 180s and go back to 165s. Groups are better by almost half. Needed excuse to buy a bullet puller I guess. Buying something. Ew every week it seems. If they were safe to fire I would just shoot them out. Can't find any info on lower than spec powder loads. Bet I don't load powder without using both scales anymore. Stupid on my part.

[Smoke & Recoil]

Seem's you may have used a digital scale, if so, a balance
scale just can't be beat.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Looks like a chamber ring left behind by it's finish reamer.

[Wendyj]

I've been using balance beam scale from Lee. Hard for my older eyes to see but I used them both a little while ago. Cross reference is all but perfect on Frankford arsenal scale and balance beam. Have small Hornady digital also but it says I'm .4 grains under or over. Add a little take some away it reads right. Wait 30 seconds and it's changing again. Frankford works good if it gets a little warm up time. Couple of minutes.

And you all that guessed it was the deburring tool were correct. Set down with trimmer. No rings. Twisted tool once or twice. Rings back. I'm sure someone makes a tool that won't do this. I see Lee has one that goes in press and trims chamfers and de burs all at once. All reviews say little plastic piece wears out too quick so I've never ordered die for it.

[condor bravo]

You seem to be satisfied with your die adjustment (additional 1/3 turn down) but I am going to inject one final thought. Lee, I assume you mean the Lee rep you contacted, isn't necessarily wrong. From your post #42 it's now apparent you are basing the 1/3 extra turn requirement as necessary since the case will otherwise not fit into the case gage. QUESTION: which is more important, that the case fit in the case gage or fit properly in the rifle's chamber? The answer should be obvious. Do not use the gage to determine chamber fit. Case gages are not even necessary. Products are made with tolerences and you may have a slightly elongated chamber that would benefit from a slightly elongated case. It sounds like you are unnecessarily pushing the shoulder bsck some upon each sizing, resulting in a shorter case and possible sloppy chamber fit that will not benefit accuracy. If a longer case will easily chamber, so much the better. Forget the case gage for determining chamber fit and die adjustment. No one hardly needs a gage for that purpose. Back off some on the sizing die and give it a try.

[Ifishsum]

And you all that guessed it was the deburring tool were correct

Wasn't a guess Been there, done that.

Pretty much every other deburring tool won't do that. The L.E. Wilson chamfer/debur tool is pretty much the gold standard IMO; easy to use along with the Lee trimming system with a cordless drill. After trimming, hit the case with both the chamfer and debur side of the tool before removing it from the lock stud. Only takes a turn or two as there is 6 cutters on the chamfer side and three on the debur side.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/789...-to-45-caliber

[Wendyj]

That's a serious looking tool compared to the toy Lee makes. Lees primer pocket cleaner isn't working too good either. Appears to be wearing out after only a hundred or so and doesn't clean very good. I tried just running brass back through vibratory media cleaner but too much hassle getting media out of flash hole.

[Ifishsum]

Many of Lee's tools work just as well as other more expensive versions, and sometimes better - but I think the chamfer tool was the first thing I replaced as it takes more work and I also didn't like that ring either.

I actually like the Lee primer pocket cleaner, mine has done tens of thousands of rounds and still works great. No need to get primer pockets spotless or even clean, many don't even touch primer pockets at all - but I like to knock down the buildup of crud to avoid a possibly high primer. Also gives me a chance to make sure the flash hole isn't blocked. But getting them spotless would probably require removing some brass; I use a Redding uniforming tool the first time I prep match brass meant for the semiauto match guns and they look really nice after that It makes a good PP cleaner too although a bit spendy for just that.

[the led farmer]

It's easy to avoid, just center the brass in the lee chamfer/deburr took and don't have the tool cockeyed. Basically don't they the brass touch the tool except for the case mouth

Problem solved