Announced RETURN of the Ruger PC9 - Page 4

chrisp51 · January 16, 2018, 06:32 PM

Beretta 96 mags are easily converted for use in the PC4.

Geezerbiker · January 16, 2018, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stagpanther

Mine does--I agree with this--but I also think the design can be tweaked to minimize the cartridge mashing, lose the "glock angle" and get the cartridge fed into the magazine with better control.

The one I had would actually bend cases. Around 2 or 3 in 10 rounds. Load it, then eject a live round and the round would be bent. Not all the time but enough for me to not keep the rifle...

stagpanther · January 16, 2018, 07:59 PM

Quote:

The one I had would actually bend cases

I know what you mean.

seeker_two · January 17, 2018, 06:21 PM

I hope they do a Charger version with a brace, too.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

**JohnKSa** · January 18, 2018, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Blow back carbines tend to mash rounds as they stuff them in the chamber.

Yup, another reason there's a practical limit to the spring force.

Quote:

The bolt already contains a tungsten weight according to Ruger's website:

Correct, and Tungsten is the densest metal that is readily available.

I'm not saying that the carbine can't be modified to take 10mm, but it seems pretty unlikely to me.

TruthTellers · January 18, 2018, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnKSa

Yup, another reason there's a practical limit to the spring force.Correct, and Tungsten is the densest metal that is readily available.

I'm not saying that the carbine can't be modified to take 10mm, but it seems pretty unlikely to me.

Time will tell.

I don't believe that Ruger would design and manufacture this carbine to just add another 9/.40 carbine in the market. It's possible that Ruger is testing prototype 10mm PC carbines right now and maybe they have an idea to use a delayed blowback system if a blowback doesn't work out.

makarov · January 18, 2018, 08:50 PM

I think the general public will be happy with a 9mm and .40 version. Gun boards like this represent people that are a little more enthusiastic about the hobby. Look at how much 10mm ammo vs. 9/40 is sold in the USA. That is where the market is. I think Ruger will have good sales with this gun since they included the Glock magwell adapter. It also has a threaded muzzle for people that want to run it suppressed. I would think a .45 ACP version would be more likely than 10mm to be honest.

LilHog · January 20, 2018, 03:09 PM

When this rifle was first announced I thought I would pass on it. The more I take a deeper look at it and watch videos showing the rifle and it's features, I'm definitely buying one in the next few months. Before I do that though I want to actually see one in person and get a feel for it shouldered.

stagpanther · January 20, 2018, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Before I do that though I want to actually see one in person and get a feel for it shouldered.

Me too--but it might be a looooong wait.

Model12Win · January 21, 2018, 01:19 AM

I doubt the design can/will be safely chambered in 10mm.

Maybe with a flapper delayed action or a depleted-uranium bolt and an even heavier spring...

**JohnKSa** · January 21, 2018, 01:50 AM

Quote:

I doubt the design can/will be safely chambered in 10mm.

I agree.

Uranium (19.1gm/cm3) is actually less dense than tungsten (19.3gm/cm3).

There are a number of metals that are more dense than tungsten, but they are all expensive enough that the chances of seeing them used in gun parts are just about nil. Besides, even Osmium, the densest metal, is only about 17% more dense than tungsten. That would take care of about 17% more muzzle momentum, but to work in 10mm, it would need to handle around 50% more muzzle momentum.

Changing this carbine over to a 10mm might be possible, but it looks like doing so will be more complicated than some simple parts swaps. It's going to require some other significant changes.

Apple a Day · January 21, 2018, 06:08 PM

As I mentioned in another thread, I got one last weekend and took it to the range today for the first shots.

The recoil was heavier than I expected. The best way I can describe it is a sharp thump. Since it's a straight blowback I guess that's to be expected. It's not bad, just not "just like a .22" as people tend to quip.

The sight picture was better than I was expecting. When I got my Henry Big Boy it had a rear peep sight (Millet?) which was just too small to be practical. I was thinking that the rear sight on this would be the same way. The PC-9 is so compact that the sight arrangement actually works very well.

I immediately put the Glock mag well and the extra butt spacers on it. I haven't decided if I'm going to switch the bolt over or the mag release.

It ran well. Of the 200 rounds of Wolf and 50 rounds of Freedom round nose hollow point -all 115 grain- it only hung up on one round of the Wolf. It may have been the round, though. Otherwise it worked with all of the Magpul 17- and 12-round magazines I used with no problems.

The trigger is a little odd. Maybe it's just me but I got better accuracy just lining up the sights and giving the trigger a single hard pull straight back rather than trying to baby it past the break.

I didn't bench rest it or measure for accuracy but my impression was that it was 'pretty good' at 50 yards. I'll try it with different bullet weights at some point but it was easily a juice jug killer at 50 yards.

YMMV

agtman · January 21, 2018, 08:40 PM

Quote:

I didn't bench rest it or measure for accuracy but my impression was that it was 'pretty good' at 50 yards. I'll try it with different bullet weights at some point but it was easily a juice jug killer at 50 yards.

Chambered in 10mm AUTO, and with a decent trigger, it would no doubt be 'really good' out to 150yds. Then we'd actually have something interesting to talk about.

Guess we'll have to wait and see what's up Ruger's sleeve.

stagpanther · January 21, 2018, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Chambered in 10mm AUTO, and with a decent trigger, it would no doubt be 'really good' out to 150yds

What is "really good"? I'm just curious since I recently built a 10mm AR carbine and have more or less determined that you have to push it pretty hard to get "OK" to 100 yds. There is an inherent limitation in trying to turn pistol bullets into small-capacity rifle cartridges has been my take-away lesson.

dean1818 · January 22, 2018, 06:36 AM

So....... I have to ask

What will you use it for?

Fun plinking makes sense, and is PLENTY of a reason to buy a gun.

But For me, my weapons have to play a role of hunters or defenders

If I want to hunt there are much more effective weapons

If I want to defend, there are much more effective weapons
(I have pistols and shotgun for close in, ARs and others for further out)

Not intending to step on anyones toes here... really not.

The diffferent PCC, really look cool. But my gun money keeps going to other, more usable things

zeke · January 22, 2018, 07:50 AM

Different strokes for different folks. However, it would appear a 16 in 9mm carbine can produce similar 124 grain velocities, as compared to a 4 in 357 mag. It can do this in a platform that almost anyone can easily become proficient in with little practice (much less recoil/muzzle blast). Rounds are cheap, and plentiful. The sights are closer to barrel, getting rid of extreme sight adjustments out to 100 yards, and conducive to modified "point" shooting closer in.

Certainly agree that it is not as handy close in, or as powerful further out than other alternatives.

Once took my octarian mother and boyfriend out to the range. Had a Marlin 16 in 44 mag with downloaded 180 sjhp's (bout 1550 fps from 16 in), muzzle ports and good recoil pad. She got on target at 15 yards very quickly with no discomfort.

the possum · January 22, 2018, 02:59 PM

It might be possible to make a "blowback" semi-auto in 10mm or other powerful rounds, by using the Advanced Primer Ignition Blowback system. With this method, the gun is fired from an open bolt, and the round is ignited just as the bolt is slamming home. This way, you can use a normal size/weight bolt because it has additional forward momentum (from the fact it's still slamming forward) to resist recoil forces. Whereas if the bolt was already closed & stationary, it would need to be much heavier in order to have enough inertia to resist recoil & premature opening.

Not saying it would be practical, since open bolt guns have a reputation for being hard to shoot accurately due to the slow lock time & all the moving mass when ya pull the trigger. And I think there's some BATF rule banning guns that fire from an open bolt? But the system has been in use since WWI and is still used today on the Oerlikon 20mm anti-aircraft cannon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oerlikon_20_mm_cannon

**JohnKSa** · January 23, 2018, 12:19 AM

Quote:

With this method, the gun is fired from an open bolt, and the round is ignited just as the bolt is slamming home...

As you say, the BATF will not approve new open bolt designs for semi-auto firearms. Their rationale for the "ban" is that such designs are too easily converted to full-auto.

kozak6 · January 23, 2018, 03:05 AM

I've seen it suggested that a tungsten top plate for the bolt might get it to a suitable mass for 10mm. It makes me wonder, though, as Ruger had a heck of a time with their tungsten 10/22 bolts cracking.

Glenn E. Meyer · January 23, 2018, 10:10 AM

As far as purpose, we've mentioned:

1. Pistol carbine competition which can be found in USPSA, IDPA and steel matches. Many folks buy guns for them which are not that optimal for hunting or self-defense.

2. As a long arm with a reasonable round for tyrannical states that ban various standard AR configurations (with approval of the Federal courts it seems). I suppose a Mini-14 works but then it can't be used in the competitions above.

Dobe · January 23, 2018, 01:56 PM

Thought about one myself

Fishbed77 · January 24, 2018, 03:24 PM

Quote:

As far as purpose, we've mentioned:

1. Pistol carbine competition which can be found in USPSA, IDPA and steel matches. Many folks buy guns for them which are not that optimal for hunting or self-defense.

2. As a long arm with a reasonable round for tyrannical states that ban various standard AR configurations (with approval of the Federal courts it seems). I suppose a Mini-14 works but then it can't be used in the competitions above.

Also:

3. Fun.

Every firearm does not have to serve a practical defensive, hunting, or competition role.

zeke · January 24, 2018, 10:42 PM

One of the true advantages is pistol caliber sbr, if you believe in the advantages of a sbr. Rifle cartridges are obnoxious (subsonic 300 blk excepted) through short barrels, especially in the 5-10 inch range, while pistol calbers get less so. In addition there are readily available/inexpensive rounds that will expand at sub sonic velocity.

makarov · January 26, 2018, 08:20 PM

Mostly, I see this gun as a fun range toy for people that already own a Glock or other gun that it shares mags with. It would also double as a decent home protection carbine if you didn't already own a shotgun or AR platform. I'm thinking about one and I already have all of the above. Ironically, I don't own a 9mm Glock (but this is an excellent excuse to by a 17 or 19!). I have a Glock 21. I think Ruger should scale this thing up for .45.

Range gun. Oversize plinker for when you get bored with your 10/22. It isn't like we need a real good excuse to go by a $500 toy. I'm going to wait a couple months and see what they are going for, but it is on my short list. Just for the hell of it.

amd6547 · January 26, 2018, 09:14 PM

10mm would be cool...but I’d like to see it in 5.7, as long as we’re dreaming.

January 18, 2018, 08:50 PM	#82
makarov Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2000 Location: Washington State Posts: 709	I think the general public will be happy with a 9mm and .40 version. Gun boards like this represent people that are a little more enthusiastic about the hobby. Look at how much 10mm ammo vs. 9/40 is sold in the USA. That is where the market is. I think Ruger will have good sales with this gun since they included the Glock magwell adapter. It also has a threaded muzzle for people that want to run it suppressed. I would think a .45 ACP version would be more likely than 10mm to be honest. __________________ "Where Zen ends, asskicking begins" - Hyde - That 70's Show

January 21, 2018, 06:08 PM	#87
Apple a Day Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2000 Location: Poquoson,Virginia Posts: 1,524	As I mentioned in another thread, I got one last weekend and took it to the range today for the first shots. The recoil was heavier than I expected. The best way I can describe it is a sharp thump. Since it's a straight blowback I guess that's to be expected. It's not bad, just not "just like a .22" as people tend to quip. The sight picture was better than I was expecting. When I got my Henry Big Boy it had a rear peep sight (Millet?) which was just too small to be practical. I was thinking that the rear sight on this would be the same way. The PC-9 is so compact that the sight arrangement actually works very well. I immediately put the Glock mag well and the extra butt spacers on it. I haven't decided if I'm going to switch the bolt over or the mag release. It ran well. Of the 200 rounds of Wolf and 50 rounds of Freedom round nose hollow point -all 115 grain- it only hung up on one round of the Wolf. It may have been the round, though. Otherwise it worked with all of the Magpul 17- and 12-round magazines I used with no problems. The trigger is a little odd. Maybe it's just me but I got better accuracy just lining up the sights and giving the trigger a single hard pull straight back rather than trying to baby it past the break. I didn't bench rest it or measure for accuracy but my impression was that it was 'pretty good' at 50 yards. I'll try it with different bullet weights at some point but it was easily a juice jug killer at 50 yards. YMMV __________________ THose who use arms well cultivate the Way and keep the rules. Thus they can govern in such a way as to prevail over the corrupt. - Sun Tzu, The Art of War

January 22, 2018, 06:36 AM	#90
dean1818 Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Location: Frisco Texas Posts: 844	So....... I have to ask What will you use it for? Fun plinking makes sense, and is PLENTY of a reason to buy a gun. But For me, my weapons have to play a role of hunters or defenders If I want to hunt there are much more effective weapons If I want to defend, there are much more effective weapons (I have pistols and shotgun for close in, ARs and others for further out) Not intending to step on anyones toes here... really not. The diffferent PCC, really look cool. But my gun money keeps going to other, more usable things __________________ An imperfect servant of my Lord and Saviour, Jesus Buying American made, wherever I still can

January 23, 2018, 10:10 AM	#95
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	As far as purpose, we've mentioned: 1. Pistol carbine competition which can be found in USPSA, IDPA and steel matches. Many folks buy guns for them which are not that optimal for hunting or self-defense. 2. As a long arm with a reasonable round for tyrannical states that ban various standard AR configurations (with approval of the Federal courts it seems). I suppose a Mini-14 works but then it can't be used in the competitions above. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

January 23, 2018, 01:56 PM	#96
Dobe Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2004 Posts: 1,348	Thought about one myself __________________ What America needs is not a good 5 cent cigar. What America needs is a good source of cheap ammunition.

January 16, 2018, 06:32 PM	#76
chrisp51 Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2012 Location: NC Posts: 148	Beretta 96 mags are easily converted for use in the PC4.

January 17, 2018, 06:21 PM	#79
seeker_two Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2002 Location: Deep in the Heart of the Lone Star State (TX) Posts: 2,169	I hope they do a Charger version with a brace, too. Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

January 20, 2018, 03:09 PM	#83
LilHog Member Join Date: February 15, 2010 Posts: 92	When this rifle was first announced I thought I would pass on it. The more I take a deeper look at it and watch videos showing the rifle and it's features, I'm definitely buying one in the next few months. Before I do that though I want to actually see one in person and get a feel for it shouldered.

January 21, 2018, 01:19 AM	#85
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	I doubt the design can/will be safely chambered in 10mm. Maybe with a flapper delayed action or a depleted-uranium bolt and an even heavier spring...

January 22, 2018, 07:50 AM	#91
zeke Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 1999 Location: NW Wi Posts: 1,671	Different strokes for different folks. However, it would appear a 16 in 9mm carbine can produce similar 124 grain velocities, as compared to a 4 in 357 mag. It can do this in a platform that almost anyone can easily become proficient in with little practice (much less recoil/muzzle blast). Rounds are cheap, and plentiful. The sights are closer to barrel, getting rid of extreme sight adjustments out to 100 yards, and conducive to modified "point" shooting closer in. Certainly agree that it is not as handy close in, or as powerful further out than other alternatives. Once took my octarian mother and boyfriend out to the range. Had a Marlin 16 in 44 mag with downloaded 180 sjhp's (bout 1550 fps from 16 in), muzzle ports and good recoil pad. She got on target at 15 yards very quickly with no discomfort.

January 22, 2018, 02:59 PM	#92
the possum Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2004 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 555	It might be possible to make a "blowback" semi-auto in 10mm or other powerful rounds, by using the Advanced Primer Ignition Blowback system. With this method, the gun is fired from an open bolt, and the round is ignited just as the bolt is slamming home. This way, you can use a normal size/weight bolt because it has additional forward momentum (from the fact it's still slamming forward) to resist recoil forces. Whereas if the bolt was already closed & stationary, it would need to be much heavier in order to have enough inertia to resist recoil & premature opening. Not saying it would be practical, since open bolt guns have a reputation for being hard to shoot accurately due to the slow lock time & all the moving mass when ya pull the trigger. And I think there's some BATF rule banning guns that fire from an open bolt? But the system has been in use since WWI and is still used today on the Oerlikon 20mm anti-aircraft cannon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oerlikon_20_mm_cannon

January 23, 2018, 03:05 AM	#94
kozak6 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2005 Location: AZ Posts: 3,113	I've seen it suggested that a tungsten top plate for the bolt might get it to a suitable mass for 10mm. It makes me wonder, though, as Ruger had a heck of a time with their tungsten 10/22 bolts cracking.

January 24, 2018, 10:42 PM	#98
zeke Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 1999 Location: NW Wi Posts: 1,671	One of the true advantages is pistol caliber sbr, if you believe in the advantages of a sbr. Rifle cartridges are obnoxious (subsonic 300 blk excepted) through short barrels, especially in the 5-10 inch range, while pistol calbers get less so. In addition there are readily available/inexpensive rounds that will expand at sub sonic velocity.

January 26, 2018, 08:20 PM	#99
makarov Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2000 Location: Washington State Posts: 709	Mostly, I see this gun as a fun range toy for people that already own a Glock or other gun that it shares mags with. It would also double as a decent home protection carbine if you didn't already own a shotgun or AR platform. I'm thinking about one and I already have all of the above. Ironically, I don't own a 9mm Glock (but this is an excellent excuse to by a 17 or 19!). I have a Glock 21. I think Ruger should scale this thing up for .45. Range gun. Oversize plinker for when you get bored with your 10/22. It isn't like we need a real good excuse to go by a $500 toy. I'm going to wait a couple months and see what they are going for, but it is on my short list. Just for the hell of it. __________________ "Where Zen ends, asskicking begins" - Hyde - That 70's Show

January 26, 2018, 09:14 PM	#100
amd6547 Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Posts: 2,313	10mm would be cool...but I’d like to see it in 5.7, as long as we’re dreaming. __________________ The past is gone...the future may never happen. Be Here Now.