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Old October 27, 2017, 11:37 PM   #1
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I have a question for KSG owners/ operators.

If you just want to post tell us you don't like KSG's... whatever.

I am curious how people have their KSG set up? It lends itself to a particular set up up but there appears to be wide variation on the theme.

I have mine set up for HD and occasional service as a trunk gun.

Mine is as follows:

- R/GDS with 1" riser. Normally the green is on.
- Tactical light underneath, with momentary on.
- Gripod. I only use the bipod for setting it down when not in use to keep it upright. After trying several different grips I noticed that the Gripod, because it is so large and has a large cube at the top that creates separation with the rail preventing hand pinches and other problems, also gives plenty of leverage.
- Beamshot triple laser (on top). Partly for funs but the triple laser provides a very easy to see pattern that is about the same size as the shot spread. The 1" riser allows it to clear.
- Factory sling. This sling is actually not too bad, and free.
- Houge pistol grip over top of the pistol grip. This gives more positive control of the gun and makes it more comfortable

On loadings I run one magazine with #2 Goose shot and the other with Foster Slugs. The #2 shot is devastating at close range (under 20') dumping dozens of .15 pellets without over penetrating in a dinner plate size pattern. The slugs are great for anything over 20' and work on anything that needs shot that the goose shot won't get.
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Old October 28, 2017, 03:19 PM   #2
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Does yours actually work without any issues? If so, yours is the first I have heard running trouble free.
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Old October 28, 2017, 04:36 PM   #3
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Yes it does, however it was a little sticky out of the box. Lots of dry cycling and shooting and a little polishing fixed that. You have to lubricate it too.

A lot of guns are sticky out of the box. My Remington 700 was sticky too.

You have to be manly with it too. This is not some broke in 870. It has locking indentions on both ends that you have to overcome to get it in to battery. You go at it milquetoast and it won't go in to battery. The same is true for most pump shotguns. People are sometimes surprised by the amount of force it takes to run the thing. It is more than most pump action shotguns I have shot.
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Old October 28, 2017, 06:32 PM   #4
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I got to shoot one that belongs to a friend.....forget the Aguilla mini shells- they were a catastrophe besides that, the lever to switch mag tubes would move to the neutral central and just dump ammo

For a range toy, that's one thing.........for serious SD/HD, no thanks
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Old October 28, 2017, 06:37 PM   #5
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Whatever.
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Old October 29, 2017, 08:29 PM   #6
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I bought a KSG earlier this year.

I did a full "fluff & buff" for the action and chamber and bore polish.
This eliminated any failures to extract, and it operates so easily now, there's almost no chance of a short stroke in opening or closing the action.

For details on what to fluff & buff read the posts on the Kel-Tec forum.

https://www.thektog.org/threads/gett...my-ksg.259455/

You'll be truly amazed at how much smoother and easier the KSG is after some light polish work to round off sharp edges.
It also goes a long way to eliminating short stroking because the gun operates so smoothly.
The KSG is a modified Ithaca Model 37 type action and it feeds and resets the action in the last 1/4 inch of slide travel to the rear and the last 1/4 inch of slide travel to the front.
Fluffing & buffing smooths stiffness of those areas and increases reliability.

Watch videos of people demonstraiting the KSG and having problems and they're either early guns that had problems, and/or they're trying to show off how they can fire the gun at just stupid speeds and causing short stroking or trigger issues.

Since the bore and chamber is parkerized polishing it out smooths the rough surface and stops the failures to extract caused by the roughness.
A shotgun cleaning rod and a bore brush wrapped with 0000 steel wool and chucked in a drill does a fast job of it.

For a set up, I figure "less is more" in a real home defense gun, not a range toy.
I didn't want to spend the money on a red dot sight which needs to be turned on and has a battery that may fail when most needed.
I also didn't want the usual pop-up AR-15 front and rear rifle sights.
These have to be popped up to use and they stick up enough I'd worry about bumping them and breaking them off.
These are also far more precise then needed at typical shotgun ranges.

In fact, for a true home defense gun used at very close range, I didn't want an intrusive sight that has to be aimed through. I wanted something along the lines of simple open rifle sights that can be looked over for a "flash" sight picture.
The shotgun is an instinctively aimed gun that's "pointed" at the target and is ultra fast in use.
Precision sights are unneeded and can slow you down.

For that reason, I installed an Archangel Auxiliary sight.
This is made of a very hard polymer.
It has an orange standard AR-15 adjustable front sight, and a polymer dovetail pistol rear sight that can be adjusted for windage.
I added a rear sight guard to protect the exposed rear sight. This is made of two thicknesses of Kydex.
The outer "ears" are thicker, the inner parts are strips of thinner Kydex to act as spacers to allow moving the rear sight if needed.

https://www.brownells.com/rifle-part...prod43817.aspx

I added a MagPul vertical pistol grip to both serve to prevent the hand from slipping forward, and to offer a better grip for reliable operation.
There's been a lot of talk about the early KSG lower rail breaking and someone shooting his hand off.
Kel-Tec has beefed up the handguard in the rail area and when used with a good grip like the MagPul there's little chance of normal use breaking the grip off.
Where you get problems is with a cheap hand grip that doesn't spread the contact over the rail and won't clamp properly. The MagPul is a known good to go setup.

Much of the breakage was caused by abusive treatment of the gun.
Because the rough chamber caused extraction problems and people tried to operate the gun at silly speeds and caused short stroking and feed problems, they get advised to "Just HAMMER the action, you can't hurt it".
That kind of abuse is unnecessary and led to broken off forward grips on early guns.

To reduce felt recoil I bought the Kel-Tec optional thicker butt pad to replace the factory stock pad.
While it's ugly, Limbsaver makes a slip-on pad that also reduces the pounding.

Other then that it's box-stock.
I don't see any real justification for metal magazine followers, the stock white plastic are perfectly good.
I didn't like the look of the aftermarket extended magazine selector because it sticks out enough that I'd worry about breaking it off if the gun was bumped the wrong way.

The gun holds 14 standard shotgun shells so external shell holders just add weight and slow the gun down.
If I wanted to shoot game birds I might justify adding a muzzle adaptor to allow using chokes, but I don't hunt so that would be money wasted.
Like all smooth barrel Cylinder Bore shotguns it should shoot slugs with enough accuracy at any practical range without added chokes.
Most of the other accessories are of questionable use or practicality.
These aftermarket accessories run from the pretty much useless to the really silly stuff, like spikes for the front so you can stab someone.

What I wanted was a simple, reliable shotgun I could hold with one hand as I moved around a home and opened doors if needed, and still fire at least the first round with one hand.
The KSG fills that need.
With a little simple work it's proved to be totally reliable and pretty much fool proof.
In fact, the KSG is so well developed and reliable it's now in use by the South Korean "White Tiger" special ops unit, the French R.A.I.D. anti-terrorist force, some prison guard units, and a number of American military special ops units.



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Old October 30, 2017, 02:16 AM   #7
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I left out that I had placed a large Houge pistol grip over top of the stock pistol grip, added it in there.

It took a bit of warming and stretching to get on there but works great.

Quote:
some prison guard units
I was unaware of this. I can see where a short, high capacity shotgun would be useful in a prison riot.
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Old October 30, 2017, 06:01 AM   #8
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I personally don’t use the KSG as a defensive shotgun due to the magazine selector. If it gets pushed in the center, you can pump the gun as much as you want... not loading the chamber. With a traditional shotgun, work the action, and as long as there is a shell in there, it is being loaded.

Still, I like the gun and modified it a little bit. I tossed the KNS QD takedown pin in, as I run Magpul MS4 slings on most of my long guns. From SMT (usually on eBay), I put in their orange followers and Remington choke adapter. I like the flexibility of adding chokes to the gun (I standardized on Remington chokes, as that was my main hunting shotgun; have a full set, and my Ithaca was converted to accept them). Other than the sling, did a Magpul vertical grip and MBUS. The last set of things I did was from Hi-Tech Concepts. Installed their plastic cheek rest, extended tube selector, and side rail (mounts on front sling loop, which I don’t use). The rail allows me to put a light in a familiar position, as I prefer a pistol light (usually TLR-1) at about 10:00.

I did get the CDS Tactical grip plug that was just released (check KTOG for that). Should be here sometime this week. I am also waiting on the MCARBO spring kit and aluminum trigger to be released. Very happy with their stuff on my SUB-2000, so want to see what they do with the KSG.
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Old October 30, 2017, 06:32 AM   #9
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Quote:
If it gets pushed in the center, you can pump the gun as much as you want..
Quote:
extended tube selector,
I find with the factory magazine selector it is near impossible to move it accidentally.
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Old October 30, 2017, 06:39 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTT TL View Post
I find with the factory magazine selector it is near impossible to move it accidentally.
Ok... still not what I want on a defensive shotgun.

I put the extended tube selector on yesterday. Made my decision on the KSG a little shy of a year ago.
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Old October 30, 2017, 06:02 PM   #11
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Be aware that the KSG trigger group is best left as-is.
Disassembly is easy. RE-assembly is a real problem, and I'm a retired watchmaker/gunsmith.
It was a real bear to get back together without breaking the plastic.

In any case, the KSG is a shotgun, not a accurate rifle where a good trigger might be a help. Few shotguns really benefit from great rifle-like triggers.

The problem is, there's nothing to hold several parts in position during reassembly and the double hammer springs put a lot of tension on everything.
A major worry of mine is that there are round holes surrounded by plastic flanges to locate the parts and I worry that the force needed to get it together might cause the plastic around the pin holes to break.
A new grip would be very expensive.

I'm sure that Kel-Tec uses positioning and holding fixtures to assemble the unit and without those fixtures you're left with a real mess.
If you check online you'll find one or two videos on how to disassemble, but tellingly, nothing on how to reassemble.
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Old October 30, 2017, 10:17 PM   #12
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I got it out today and put 50 trouble free #6 shot rounds through it.

I tried replacing the light with one with an aluminum body. The recoil caused the battery gate to come open and batteries fell out. After this happened the second time the light was switched back to the one I had on there previously.

Whatever you put on the gun it needs to be tested. The heavy recoil of the 12GA even with birdshot is too much for a lot of things that run just fine on an AR.
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Old October 31, 2017, 03:44 PM   #13
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I have a KSG and am pretty happy with the gun. I added the Magpul Vertical foregrip, a TRUGLO combination light and laser . The laser is integrated into the reflector and comes with a pressure switch as well as left and right hand momentary switches. I added a Sightmark Reticle sight as well. I am not a hardcore guy so I am not going to spend the money on Eotech. I used it at the range and it was plenty accurate and held zero despite shooting magnum slugs (OUCH!). I load buckshot in one tube (default) and rifled slugs in the other (in case the crap REALLY hits the fan). Finally I added a single point sling to it.

I am very happy with this gun and feel that it is a phenomenal home defense weapon. the small size allows you to move (when needed) and the 14+1 rounds it holds should hopefully be sufficient for just about any situations. The accuracy with rifled slugs is more than sufficient. I heard the KSG is very accurate with rifled slugs out past 100 yards. I will look at smoothing out the internals, but honestly, I never had any issues. Just be sure to to get a KSG injury by sliding your hand forward of the muzzle and blowing your hand off!
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Old October 31, 2017, 06:41 PM   #14
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There's been a lot of discussion about loading slugs in one magazine tube and buckshot in the other and switching back and forth.

Several really experienced KSG users with a lot of practice time on combat ranges say that it just doesn't work in the real world.

In order for it to work at least partially requires that you spend a LOT of range time practicing and even then you wind up firing one type of shell when you intended to fire the other.
When running fast or under pressure it's extremely difficult to remember which tube is which and which one is feeding right now.
Also, when you switch to the other load in the other magazine, you often wind up ejecting and wasting the live round in the chamber.

Most of the high end KSG users suggest treating the gun like a standard 7 shot shotgun with the worlds fasted reload.
Shoot one magazine, then when it's empty switch to the other for another instant 7 rounds.

Frankly, Kel-Tec doesn't have a great reputation for their pistols. They seem to be innovative designs that fail in the quality execution.
The KSG shotgun at least has had the bugs worked out and is a quality gun.
It's lighter then the other bullpup shotguns, less bulky, more compact and shorter, and costs less.
Currently, it looks like the bullpup is the direction a lot of new defense shotguns is taking and so far, the KSG seems to be the way to go.
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Old November 1, 2017, 08:30 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dfariswheel
There's been a lot of discussion about loading slugs in one magazine tube and buckshot in the other and switching back and forth.

Several really experienced KSG users with a lot of practice time on combat ranges say that it just doesn't work in the real world.

In order for it to work at least partially requires that you spend a LOT of range time practicing and even then you wind up firing one type of shell when you intended to fire the other.
When running fast or under pressure it's extremely difficult to remember which tube is which and which one is feeding right now.
Also, when you switch to the other load in the other magazine, you often wind up ejecting and wasting the live round in the chamber.

Most of the high end KSG users suggest treating the gun like a standard 7 shot shotgun with the worlds fasted reload.
Shoot one magazine, then when it's empty switch to the other for another instant 7 rounds.
I believe the most important step is the initial set up. My default is buck shot and I set it that way. I could switch to slugs at any point, but I could also use it as a mag change like you said. I'm not sure why one would need to switch back and forth. That could obviously lead to confusion.

Overall, I am very happy with the KSG and feel like it is the ideal home defense weapon.
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Old November 1, 2017, 06:54 PM   #16
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Because the KSG does have two magazine tubes and does not automatically switch to the other tube when the first is empty, or alternately feed from each tube, many people have the idea of loading buck in one, slugs in the other and switching back and forth on the run.

That's confusing and as said, you wind up dumping a good round out of the chamber or "forgetting" which tube is which and firing the wrong shell.
A serious "my bad" would be getting faced with a target at 75 yards and mistakenly firing a buckshot load.
That could be a fatal mistake.

A possible better option is to just "Dutch load" the magazines like some people load standard single tube guns by alternating slugs and buckshot.
One expert explained this as a possible mag load for a car stop situation.
The first shell or two would be slugs to penetrate the car, the following shells would be buckshot for when they bail out, possibly finishing with a slug or two as they move away trying to escape and put some distance between you and them.

My idea of working with any gun is to keep it as simple as possible so you won't mess up under stress.
In a home defense situation a full load of buckshot is as simple and as effective as it gets.

For those turned off by the high prices of the bullpup shotguns, there's the Bullpup Armory shotgun conversion that converts a standard Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 series pump gun to a bullpup.
This is great if you already have a gun and it's an easy conversion that can be de-converted easily back to the stock configuration.
The only down side is that in order to remove the barrel or do a good clean job you have to more or less disassemble everything off the gun.

http://www.bullpuparmory.com/Default.asp
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Old November 2, 2017, 12:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dfariswheel
Because the KSG does have two magazine tubes and does not automatically switch to the other tube when the first is empty, or alternately feed from each tube, many people have the idea of loading buck in one, slugs in the other and switching back and forth on the run.

That's confusing and as said, you wind up dumping a good round out of the chamber or "forgetting" which tube is which and firing the wrong shell.
A serious "my bad" would be getting faced with a target at 75 yards and mistakenly firing a buckshot load.
That could be a fatal mistake.

A possible better option is to just "Dutch load" the magazines like some people load standard single tube guns by alternating slugs and buckshot.
One expert explained this as a possible mag load for a car stop situation.
The first shell or two would be slugs to penetrate the car, the following shells would be buckshot for when they bail out, possibly finishing with a slug or two as they move away trying to escape and put some distance between you and them.

My idea of working with any gun is to keep it as simple as possible so you won't mess up under stress.
In a home defense situation a full load of buckshot is as simple and as effective as it gets.
In a typical "home defense" situation, long distance shots are not likely. That is why my default is buck shot. I can switch to slugs if I have to go through walls and doors. This would obviously be after I have gathered everyone onto the "safe room" and assuming someone is either stupid enough, crazy enough, or determined enough to attack someone armed with a shotgun from a barricaded position.
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Old November 3, 2017, 07:29 AM   #18
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In fact, the KSG is so well developed and reliable it's now in use by the South Korean "White Tiger" special ops unit, the French R.A.I.D. anti-terrorist force, some prison guard units, and a number of American military special ops units
I've trained South Korean "Special Ops" units and they aren't that great. Do you have any references for the American Special Ops units using a KSG?
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Old November 10, 2017, 05:44 AM   #19
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I guess not.
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Old November 10, 2017, 04:32 PM   #20
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Sorry just got back to this.

I read something online by a man who was allowed a look inside the arsenal of "A Special Ops unit" and saw a couple of KSG's.
He said that he was told that most Special Ops units have non-standard special purpose guns like that as contingency weapons for special circumstance where they might prove useful.

These units are always testing new guns to see if they might be useful.
A few years ago the internet was aflame after someone saw a few Army Special Forces personnel on a military post range shooting .50 caliber Desert Eagle pistols.
Instantly the word went out that the Green Berets were buying and using the Desert Eagle.
Not.
They were just doing the usual testing to see if they might have a use in some circumstance.
Possible they would in some unusual situation were an ultra powerful pistol would do the job so they're probably in a Special Forces armory. And if the Special Forces thought they might be useful, probably the other Special Ops units would also buy them.

Most such units have long had Remington 870 folding stock shotguns and Remington US Marshal Witness Protection Program type 870 shotguns for use from inside vehicles when body guarding officials.
Both Remington and Mossberg are now selling versions of the Witness Protection gun.
I'd suspect that the units would find the KSG to be an even better gun for these purposes so I'd bet they all have a few KSG's.

The point to what I wrote in the above post was that the Kel-Tec KSG has progressed beyond the usual problems Kel-Tec guns usually have, and Kel-Tec has solved the early reliability and breaking problems of the first KSG model to the point where the quality is such that foreign and US Special Ops units are using them.

Last edited by Dfariswheel; November 10, 2017 at 04:39 PM.
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Old November 12, 2017, 07:54 AM   #21
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Quote:
These units are always testing new guns to see if they might be useful.
A few years ago the internet was aflame after someone saw a few Army Special Forces personnel on a military post range shooting .50 caliber Desert Eagle pistols.
Instantly the word went out that the Green Berets were buying and using the Desert Eagle.
Not.
They were just doing the usual testing to see if they might have a use in some circumstance.
Possible they would in some unusual situation were an ultra powerful pistol would do the job so they're probably in a Special Forces armory. And if the Special Forces thought they might be useful, probably the other Special Ops units would also buy them.
Even with SF/ Spec Ops it doesn't work that way. If some Green Beret's were shooting a Desert Eagle on a range it was most likely because their sole mission is training foreign military units. I've literally been issued 14" barreled 870's and 590's, for the sole purpose of breaching. People can write anything they want on the internet, it doesn't make it true.
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Old November 14, 2017, 09:23 PM   #22
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I seem to have inadvertently pushed one of your buttons, sorry if I did, I simply reported what I read.

As for the Desert Eagle and Special Forces, it was not reported as "some Green Beret's were shooting a Desert Eagle", it was more like 7 or 8 Special Forces soldiers, each shooting a number of Desert Eagle pistols.
Either some troops got a real buy on Desert Eagle, or it was possibly an evaluation/familiarization with the DE for whatever purpose.
The report had it that this was not some guys plinking, they seemed to be doing serious shooting.

The report of the Kel-Tec KSG in "a special ops armory" was not some anonymous guy on a gun forum.
The article was in either a newspaper or news magazine. Sorry I don't remember which.
The writer, as I recall was retired military special operations of some sort.

The thrust of the article was that special operations used mostly standard weapons with a few unexpected non-standard types, like the short Remington 870 Witness Protection type shotgun and the KSG.
The writer stated that he didn't see any Area 51 developed Star Wars laser pistols that fit in the hip pocket and could shoot down an aircraft from 40,000 feet.
Most weapons were pretty much standard military with a few unusual surprises people might not expect to see used by the military.

As I said, there is some kind of high end Korean special ops unit known as the "White Tiger" that uses the KSG and there's at least one picture on the internet of a Korean soldier firing the KSG from a "Little Bird" helicopter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/707th_...sion_Battalion

The KSG is also in use by the French R.A.I.D. (Recherche, Assistance, Intervention, Dissuasion) force which is apparently the French version of the FBI Hostage Rescue unit.
The Wikipedia page on the Kel-Tec KSG states that it's in limited use by the US Army and some private military companies.

Again, sorry if I stepped on toes, I was simply pointing out that Kel-Tec has at least one firearm that meets some pretty high standards, and may be something a person looking for an effective, ultra compact shotgun might consider.
Personally, I'd be rather surprised if something like the KSG didn't turn up in special ops armories.
Which makes me wonder if somewhere there might be a couple of DP-12 shotguns too.

Last edited by Dfariswheel; November 14, 2017 at 09:37 PM.
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