New to reloading , throwing unique , bad idea ???

[Metal god]

I'm getting a buddy of mine started in reloading . He's loaded before but many moons ago and he only used the Lee loader ( the one you use a hammer etc ) . This time he bought the Lee classic turret press kit on my recommendation . He'll be starting with 9mm then likely moving to 38/357 and then on to rifle rounds like 223 , 7.62x54r and maybe some 270 .

I've not used Unique before but have heard it's a great all around powder for the calibers he plans to start with ( 9mm & 38/357 ) . I do have a pound put away for my self but never have used the stuff . My concern is that the Lee kit comes with the auto drum which means he'll be throwing most of his charges . I just did some research and it appears that Unique does not throw well ??? I'd really like to keep it simple for him .

1) Is this the wrong powder for a new reloader to start out with if throwing your charges ?

2) Do any of you use unique in an auto drum and how does it work ?

3) I'm considering offering him a trade . some HP-38/231 for a pound of the unique . This way he can start with something that throws a little better ??

Any other ideas are welcome

[Viper225]

I use lots of Unique,American Select, 20/28 etc loading handguns using a Dillon 550.
I have a cheap aquarium bubbler zip tied to the powder reservoirs on the powder measure. It works great keeping the powder charges consistent. No idea how the bubbler would work on a Lee Measure. Give it a try.

Bob

[Metal god]

The way the press works it self promotes quite a bit of jarring of the powder measure . It has a tool head but unlike other presses where the shell plate rotates . The Lee classic turrets tool heads them selves rotate creating a lot of movement . I have the same set up for my hand gun loading but I've only used ( just by chance and some planning ) well metering powders like Titegroup . 231 , CFE pistol . WSF and the auto drums works well with those .

[Steve in PA]

I've been using Unique exclusively for my .45acp loads for.......well, a lot of years. I recently started using it for some milder loads in .44 Magnum.

I have the RCBS Uniflow powder dispenser and the key to using it with Unique is;

1) Get the baffle for the hopper,

2) Develop a good rhythm when dispensing the powder.

I have no issues with using Unique.

[rottdogsparky]

I'm confused, if you are not familiar with unique just go buy the powder that you are use to! Unless you live in an area that you are forced to pay for shipping or are in a communist state it might be easier to stick with what you know. My go to powder lately had been Clays for 45 ACP 38 and 357 it meters well for me.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[rottdogsparky]

Originally Posted by rottdogsparky

I'm confused, if you are not familiar with unique just go buy the powder that you are use to! Unless you live in an area that you are forced to pay for shipping or are in a communist state it might be easier to stick with what you know. My go to powder lately had been Clays for 45 ACP 38 and 357 it meters well for me.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Quick thought when I first started reloading I was recommended to powder that measured to fill the shell I was loading at least 2/3 of the way to help eliminate the chance of a double charge. Winchester 296 rings a bell that required a lot of powder per round.

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[NoSecondBest]

Pick another powder. I use Unique, but it has its negative points. It's not even close to being the best choice for 9mm. Pick a powder that uses more of the case capacity and if possible, a ball powder or small/short stick powder. Unique doesn't meter all that well, isn't the best choice for the caliber, and there are many other better choices. FWIW, I've been reloading for fifty years and I've loaded literally hundreds of thousands of rounds. Get your loading manual out (Lyman is best, lists everyone's stuff) and look again. Good luck.

[joed]

I used Unique for many years. When I got a 550b I started experiencing problems with squib loads and Unique. I upgraded the press to a 650 with powder check die, used up the Unique I had and switched to Universal.

Won't go back to Unique after trying Universal, meters better and is nowhere near as dirty as Unique.

[buck460XVR]

While Unique does not throw well as per weight, it throws very well as per volume. Unique like some other powders. it shoots very well when charged by volume. This is why it's a favorite among those who use dippers. As long as the powder is not bridging in drop tube, those minor +/- .1 gr differences in weight aren't going to matter. Unique for a faster burning, lighter load type of powder, fills the case more than many other fast powders and is easier to see when one looks into the case to make sure the cases are charged and are charged the same. It's also very accurate. So it doesn't meter to weight easily and it's not the cleanest burning powder. Wonder why it's so popular then?

[reddog81]

I'd suggest starting with .38 Special and learning the ropes there. The large case volume is much more forgiving and you don't have to worry about cycling the slide.

Unique should work fine assuming you/he know what you are doing.

[zipspyder]

Going to be using Unique to reload my new Puma 92 Colt 45 and I have a question as well. I have a digital powder scale and from what I'm reading it may be more beneficial to just use a scooper? Why would it not weigh well or are we talking about dippers vs auto throwers?

[NoSecondBest]

Just get some AA5 and AA7 and start with those powders. Out of my 9mm/9x21/38Super they were the most accurate loads, metered perfectly, and were readily available. Unique works, but it's just not the best in any way for the 9mm's. I've found Unique to be good is cast bullet loads in larger cases and used on single stage or turret presses. Another good choice is 231. Yes, Unique can be loaded in a LOT of cartridges, it's just not the best in all of them. It covers a lot of bases, but it just isn't a first choice in a lot of them.

[Mike Irwin]

Unique does not have a reputation for metering particularly well. It's a large flake powder, and those often cause metering issues.

Ball powders, like 231, or even flake powders that have smaller flakes like Red Dot, tend to do much better.

That said, Unique is probably the single most versatile powder that has ever been brought to market. If you/your buddy can learn to live with its known eccentricities and work with them to avoid potential mishaps, you'll find it to be a great powder.

[44 AMP]

1) Is this the wrong powder for a new reloader to start out with if throwing your charges ?

Wrong? No. Absolute best/simplest/easiest? no. Useful and usable? Oh yes.

2) Do any of you use unique in an auto drum and how does it work ?

I don't use the auto-disk measure, so I cannot speak to how well any powder works in it. Other then a couple of their hand tools, I'm not a fan of LEE products. Unique meters tolerably well in my RCBS measure. Not as good as some ball powders, but wonderfully better than IMR stick type powders.

3) I'm considering offering him a trade . some HP-38/231 for a pound of the unique . This way he can start with something that throws a little better ??

Up to the both of you, of course. The fast powders are best in smaller cases, and are good for light to "standard" level loads in many different cartridges.

Any other ideas are welcome

#1) Have your friend get a decent SCALE!!!!
Volumetric measuring can be very consistent, when done right, BUT, without a scale, you don't really know what weight is being dispensed. Without a scale, all you can go by is what the makers says it does, and that is only a GUIDELINE. Not such a big deal when you're talking rifle rounds and powder charges running from 20something to 70something grains of weight, but something else again when your starting load is 4gr and your listed max is 5gr. Charge hole #3 might be listed as dropping 4.8gr if Unique, but what if it's actually dropping 5.3gr? Or 4.3gr?? Without a scale, you'll never know.

#2) The 9mm Parabellum round is not the most forgiving or easiest to load for, and not what I would recommend to a complete beginner. Tiny variations in the loading process that are often insignificant in other (larger) rounds can be vitally important in the 9mm.

#3) multi station/progressive/auto advance presses are not what I would recommend for an absolute beginner. Not that they can't learn to use them well, just that there is a lot more going on than just loading ammo, and the learning curve can be steep. When that beginner destroys components because something is a little off with the press adjustments it tends to damp their enthusiasm. I can still remember a lot of my beginning days in reloading, and with money being tight, every case, primer and bullet was something precious to me. (plus, I always hated winding up with a box of 49 loaded round...) Might I suggest setting up the turret press as a single stage press, (for a while) until your friend masters the basics...

I would also (for now) steer your friend away from plated bullets. They require different methods than either lead or Jacketed, and there's no reason for a complete beginner to be "tossed into that swamp" right off the get go...

Have them learn to craft quality ammo using jacketed and lead bullets, learning the slightly different techniques for those, first. Once the get to that point, learning the quirks needed for plated bullets is another option.

and have your friend get a book. An actual printed book, not something on a video screen. Several books are better than just one. And see if you can explain to him that ALL published reloading data are guidelines, NOT immutable laws of nature. EVERY gun & ammo combination has the potential to be slightly different. Most fall somewhere in the middle of the bell curve, (which is why the guidelines are useful) but you could have a gun & ammo combination on either end of the curve, and there's no way to know that, until you pull the trigger.

This is why the advice to "start low and work up slowly" isn't just a good idea, its a "best practice". DO NOT START OUT WITH THE MAX LISTED LOADS!!!!!

Hope this helps.

[Metal god]

I don't use the auto-disk measure

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/80...caAj_tEALw_wcB
The kit comes with the "auto drum" not the auto disc . two completely different measures in how they work . The auto drum if fully adjustable to any powder weight unlike the auto disc that uses set cavity sizes .

#1) Have your friend get a decent SCALE!!!!

Agreed , I helped him set up the lee scale . I brought my check weights and although it actually worked well it's a little rinkydink . I' plan to offer my extra Hornady beam scale for him to use for now . I use a Redding .

I like the idea of maybe asking him to start with 38 first but he's all tooled up for 9mm and not sure he'll want to spend the money . Yes it's only another $35 or so he'll need at some point but he's now $500 into this after the press kit , 2lbs of powder , brick of primers , bullets , dies tumbler and a few other things . I'm not 100% but I get the vibe the budget is topping out .

I also like the idea of using the press as a single stage at first .

have your friend get a book. An actual printed book,

Agreed and done . The kit comes with the Lee book and I gave him my Lyman 49th so he has two books at hand now .

[RC20]

First 9mm is not a good cartridge to start with, its got a serious potential for over charge (and note Unique is able to over charge and the system errors can be bad combo)

A small error and you have too much. Unique can go easily over.

I would use a beam scale or better yet a digital scale to confirm weight when you get there.

Rifle is actually easier to learn.

38 would be better to start with than 9 mm.

I don't crimp on a seater die, separate step.

[FrankenMauser]

W231/HP-38 would be a better powder choice.
Unique isn't all that bad (I use a lot of it), it just isn't the most friendly powder to meter.

I have also come to like Red Dot for .380 Auto, 9x19mm, and a few other 'handgun' cartridges. But it isn't much better than Unique or Bullseye, as far as metering.

[BBarn]

I don't think starting off in reloading with Unique in the 9mm is unreasonable. Unique will give very good case fill and a double charge would possibly even overflow the case. The main things to be careful of with the 9mm is overall length and crimp. Shorter than recommended overall lengths drive pressures up very quickly, so they need to be avoided. And the crimp needs to be sufficient to keep the bullets from sinking back into the case and driving pressures up.

[David R]

As long as he starts low and works up there should be no problem.

Nothing is perfect.

Reading the Lyman handbook on reloading would be the best thing.

Good luck.

I started with a hammer and a Lee kit in 1987. Now it's a Dillon. I Loaded 2500 rounds this winter for next summer matches.

One powder on the bench at a time. I learned that one the hard way.

David

[mikld]

Start your friend off right and make sure he thinks safety first. Don't depend on a powders ability to "fill" a case to prevent a double charge, just make sure there is only one charge per case by looking! I have been reloading over 30 years and I still look in every case charged. Unique is a good powder for the 9mm.

A new reloader should not just guess at what the powder measure drops, as there are ways to vary the charge with just the operation of the measure. Get a scale and until he gets a good system for operating the measure, have him weigh every charge at first, then no more than 5 charges between measuring.

You mention a Lee turret. Is he going to operate it semi-progressive? Can you slow him down and operate the press single stage to get the finer points down safely?

FWIW; I got a Lee turret press mebbe 17 years ago and disabled the auto index 3 days after I got it. I was setting up the press and it indexed when I didn't want it to so I disabled the auto-index. I liked hand indexing and kept it that way prefer hand indexing and I used that press until just 6 months ago, loading several thousand rounds from 9mm up through 30-06, sized a bunch of bullets and set it up for a ram prime and just hand indeed it...

[Pathfinder45]

Unique is an outstanding powder in the 45 Colt. It also works well in many other application, though oftentimes there are better choices. I have run at least 3 pounds or 231/HP-38 through the 45 Colt with good results, but I like Unique better in that caliber. So I would gladly trade 231 for Unique, especially if a beginning reloader would be better served by doing so.

[Metal god]

FWIW; I got a Lee turret press mebbe 17 years ago and disabled the auto index 3 days after I got it. I was setting up the press and it indexed when I didn't want it to so I disabled the auto-index.

I was just the opposite . I wanted mine to auto index so I don't forget to turn it and double charge . I also disabled my safety feature on my Auto drum that forces you to basically push a button every time you want to charge a case . That was just another thing I did not want to have to remember to do when reloading . If you don't push the button it looks and acts like it's throwing a charge but it doesn't . I just saw me loading squibs with that feature . FWIW , disabling that feature is an option in the directions so you all don't think I modified the powder measure .

All that said I had been loading rifle for years prier to loading for hand gun . When I started loading handguns cartridges I loaded on a single stage at first but about 7 or 8 hundred rounds into it the single stage was not cutting it so I went to the LCT press . Very happy I did .

OK so far this is the plan

I've already told him to read the entire Lyman book until he gets to the load data . I told him he can skip the black powder section if he wants . I'll know if he read it because he'll have more pointed questions after , I know I did

Take him out my Hornady beam scale for him to use instead of the Lee beam scale

Trade powders for HP-38 or maybe HS-6 ???? HS-6 will fill the case nicely and is fairly forgiving ???

I had him buy some check weights

Start him off loading as if it's a single stage before moving on to the auto indexing capability .

Have him weigh each charge for awhile before he starts using the auto drum powder measure

I'll ask if he wants to start with 38/357 but all he has firearms wise in that caliber is a 38 LCP ( little tiny thing ) and a uber high end 357 lever gun . so that caliber is not shot much by him . 9mm is his range caliber . He has a Sig & Hi-power in 9mm .

Safety , SAFETY , SAFTEY first . Only have one powder out at a time .

Anything else ?

[Hammerhead]

Start with HP-38, HS-6 is OK in 9mm but can be hard to ignite uniformly in .38/357 without firm crimps and magnum primers.

HP-38 is a great powder to start with. It has no 'yah buts'.

[FITASC]

I used Unique for about 2 decades before switching to Universal (VERY similar and cleaner burning). I have always used a RCBS powder measure and have never had an issue with Unique or Universal (or any of the rifle stick powders). Once scale-verified, using a consistent method will result in consistent drops.

[Nick_C_S]

I have no experience with a Lee Auto Drum. That said, in my RCBS Uniflow (the only powder hopper I've ever used), Unique can throw a little more wonky than many other propellants, but I can't hardly imagine it being a "show stopper" issue for a beginner loader with an auto drum. Just start low - as usual.

Aside from the fact that I wouldn't trade a # of W231 for 8 #'s of Unique , I believe Unique is a rather good choice for a beginner handgun loader.

Unique is considerably slower than W231 and thus, affords more forgiveness. It also has a good fluffy fill rate. Lighter bullets also affords more forgiveness btw; and so starting with 115's (9mm) and 110's/125's (38's) might be a good idea. (By dumb luck, I started with light bullets back in '84 and it probably spared me a gun and a couple fingers.)

Either way, the 9mm part is a little concerning as I wouldn't recommend starting with them. I'd crank out a hundred or two of 38's before moving to 9's - just my two cents.

At any rate, I think Unique is a good starting propellant. If the powder throw thing remains a lingering issue, consider HS-6. It's about the same burn rate as Unique (a little slower, actually), and is a very predictable, cool running (low energy), smooth metering, forgiving propellant. HS-6 runs sooty when underloaded - but that's a concern for the more advanced loader. A little soot and grainy residue is just fine for the novice.