Canton OH Police CCW Holder Encounter

[ltc444]

I haven't seen any post on the Canton OH Police encounter with a CCW Holder.

From what I have read and the car cam video, it appears that the Officer(s) failed to properly perform their duties in accordance with standard Police practice.

It appears that the Police and Prosecutors have in typical CYA fashion, Charged the CCW Holder with a Felony.

Does any one have any information on this incident.

[Ronbert]

This locked thread covered it pretty extensively.
The Search function is your friend.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...ghlight=canton

[Webleymkv]

The synopsis thus far is as follows: the DA apparently offered to drop the charges in exchange for a release of liability from the CCL holder (guarantee that he won't sue). This offer was apparently rejected by the CCL holder and his lawyer. The cop in question is not currently on duty and, according to the Canton PD an investigation is ongoing. Those are the basic facts at this time. The rest of the locked thread is primarily reactions/opinions of the posters (myself included). Some cop-bashing and overreaction to criticizm of cops took the other thread off course and eventually Al had to close it. It is worth a read though as there's some good info there if you can separate the wheat from the chaff.

[hogdogs]

I feel, as did Al, that the closed thread went pretty calm and civil for the most part...

Alot of good info is provided as well some well intentioned and maybe a little ill intentioned emotions...

Brent

[Aguila Blanca]

You missed all this? http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...ghlight=canton

[shortwave]

Enjoyed the thread for the most part while it lasted.

It did go calm for the most part.

If enough citizens local and out of state make their diss-satisfaction known, this loose cannon will no longer carry a badge.

He doesn't deserve a job as a public servant and his actions should not be swept under the rug. His actions in the vid. made him a danger to the public as well as his partner and himself.

My family members that are LEO's along with thousands of other LEO's have a hard enough job without guys like this tarnishing the profession.

Just so your aware, FOP(Fraternal Order of Police) is the number one lobbying group in the State of Ohio. They pack a big punch around the state. I'll try to get their number and post it. If anyone knows it please post.
Also, if there are any more phone numbers of importance people can think of to call to express their disapproval, please post.

Just so you know your voice is heard. There was a situation in Cols.,Ohio a while back in which a Cols. fireman got drunk and hung his dog from his basement rafters and proceeded to use the dog for target practice. Shooting dog several times killing it.

Naturally he was fired and the public outcry for his job was instrumental in the process.

This fireman had a sketchy past and his file was far from exemplary.

I'm wondering if this Canton LEO's past file is somewhat the same??

[egor20]

Just so your aware, FOP(Fraternal Order of Police) is the number one lobbying group in the State of Ohio. They pack a big punch around the state. I'll try to get their number and post it. If anyone knows it please post

Fraternal Order of Police of Ohio

State Office
222 East Town Street
Columbus, OH 43215-4611
Tel: (614) 224-5700
Fax: (614) 224-5775

Northeast Office
2721 Manchester Road
Akron, OH 44319
Tel: (330) 753-7080
(888) 367-6524
Fax: (330) 753-8955

[hogdogs]

Short, His "jacket" contains 16 Internal Affairs Investigation Reports From what I read, it seems many if not all were for "excessive force" sort of stuff.

Brent

[Al Norris]

Originally Posted by Webleymkv

Some cop-bashing and overreaction to criticizm of cops took the other thread off course and eventually Al had to close it.

I'll let this thread stay open as long as we don't get into the same rut.

From the video, it appears that this particular officer had some serious training issues. That does not mean any or all other officers are in the same boat. Not by any stretch of the imagination. Keep your emotions in check.

Oh, those 16 citations (complaints? We really don't know) in this guys service jacket? That means a whole lot of nothing at this point in time. Any officer who has spent some time on the street could be expected to receive that many or more.

[shortwave]

Understanding why the last thread was closed....

...Thanks for your patience Al.

[Eghad]

I think its safe to say that the Canton PD doesn't approve of the actions because the officer has been place on leave and an investigation is being done. There was also a statment from the police union rep there where they dont approve of this officers actions. That is enough for me to know that the actions in the video will not be tolerated.

[Mike Irwin]

The officer has been placed on paid administrative leave, but doesn't say if he's been ordered off the job or not.

If off the job, he gets a paid vacation. How nice.

This is what, the third incident like this this year? There was one in Philadelphia with the open carrier and there was another one somewhere else, I think, all featuring incredibly angry semi-rogue cops making lots of threats of violence.

[aarondhgraham]

There was also a statment from the police union rep there where they dont approve of this officers actions. That is enough for me to know that the actions in the video will not be tolerated.

It's really not enough.

Too often (I can recall 3 times where I worked),,,
Lots of lip service was paid to the bad event,,,
All 3 officers were put on admin leave,,,
And nothing more happened.

In all 3 cases as soon as the public outcry was past,,,
The officers got a letter in their record and were back on the streets.

I'll not be happy until he is fired, criminal charges are filed,,,
And he is convicted in criminal court and made a felon.

Because that's exactly what would happen to you or me in that situation.

Aarond

[secret_agent_man]

it appears that this particular officer had some serious training issues

And mental issues. The guy is either a sociopath or a megalomaniac.

[Jim March]

Yeah, that was WAY beyond "training issues".

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Mike Irwin

This is what, the third incident like this this year? There was one in Philadelphia with the open carrier and there was another one somewhere else, I think, all featuring incredibly angry semi-rogue cops making lots of threats of violence.

Two in Philadelphia. There was another incident in Philadelphia within the past week, as reported on opencarry.org and PAFOA.

[shortwave]

Has anyone read how long this guys been on the force?

Thank You egor20 for the FOP phone #'s.

Also Governor Kasicks "Hot Line" phone number is: 1-614-644-4357.
Be patient...Took two days for a rep. to return my call but they finally did.



Canton City Council President Email: [email protected]

Council Pres. Schulman is very upset about the amount of emails sent to him from the citizens concerning this matter and apparently expressed it in a council meeting.... Go figure.

If you want to email Canton Mayor or any other gov. staff members in Canton you can Google: www.cantonohio.gov for their home page.

[hogdogs]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBfpBxY2J00
Canton City Councilman Alan Schulman tells it like he sees it... And none of us will like it!!!

Another person who cannot see the forest thru the trees!

"Your next..." he says...

Shame on all the dumb folks who think guns can protect you!

Brent

[MLeake]

I sent the following email to Mr. Schulman, to add to his collection:

Mr. Schulman,

About the radio interview you did on AM 640 -

I don't think it was the PR coup for which you might have hoped.

As one of those armed civilians whom you seem to deplore and deride, I am offended by your attitude. *This country was founded on the idea of limited government, and maximized liberty of the individual. *This concept included the right of self-defense, as can be found in the writings of the founders, of which The Federalist Papers are among the strongest examples.

Your concept that the issue of concealed permits to more Americans will increase violent crime has been disproven, as crime has very notably NOT shot up in those states which have passed "Shall Issue" laws, nor in those states which have passed laws preempting gun legislation by lower levels of government.

To the city of Canton's credit, the incident that led to the video you were discussing seems to have been taken seriously. *Apparently the officer is on administrative leave, while the investigation is conducted. *I understand that paid leave is a stipulation of the union's contract, and don't blame the city.

Both officers involved were extremely unprofessional (conducting a vehicle search with an un-checked occupant in the car? *seriously?), but the one who threatened the driver, repeatedly, with violence ranging from physical assault to shooting deserves to be fired, if not criminally charged with assault, terroristic threats, and abuses under color of authority.

It's also indefensible, if true, that your DA offered to drop charges if the arrested would sign a form waiving any future lawsuit. *I'm pretty sure that was both a legal and ethical violation on his part.

So, in the story to which you referred, the serious abuses were actually committed by a law enforcement officer, and possibly by the district attorney.

Please tell me again how the armed citizen was at fault?

Regards,

M.D. Leake,
LCDR *USN retired

PS *I am another of those who does not live in Canton, nor even Ohio. *But I do support the NRA-ILA and the SAF, and will be happy to donate to the defense fund in this case. *Should you continue to make statements of the sort you did on AM 640, I'll also be happy to contribute to the election campaign of your next rival.

Edit: The asterisks were not in the email; I think the copy and paste translation added those in place of spaces.

[shortwave]

Canton City Council Pres. Allen Schulman comments about Ohio cc laws in general are no more than a futile attempt to disguise or somehow turn what happened the night of the encounter with the ccp holder into something blaming Ohio cc laws rather than focusing on the issue at hand.

The issue at hand being the fact that proper procedures were not followed by either Canton LEO's from the onset of the stop. Period!

I'm familiar with the area in Canton where this incident happened. It is the rougher section of the city with probably the highest crime rate in the area.

If I lived in that area of town, or had to pass through there,as a citizen, I'd surely want to be armed.

I also know that Mr Schulman doesn't live in that area and if he did, he'd probably cc also.

The rough area of Canton, our current Ohio cc laws, the fact Ohioans can cc in a restaurant/bar(you can't consume alcohol) all of which Schulman eluded to, MATTERS NOT. All that retoric is no more than an attempt to muddy the waters.

The whole point of this incident is the fact that two Canton's LEO's did not follow proper procedure in what appears to be a suspicious activity stop rather than a randon traffic stop.
Therefore putting a big black eye on the City of Canton's PD Dept. and its officials as viewed by citizens throughout the country.

What happened that night has nothing to do with Ohio's cc laws and shame on Schulman for trying to confuse the issue's with concerned citizens.

hogdogs,

Thanks for posting the youtube vid. of Schulman....

...another call in process..

[secret_agent_man]

Canton, Ohio PD has seen a bad cop in the ranks before:

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=4283804&page=1

[shortwave]

On behalf of all Ohio citizens that believe in and fight for the rights the Second Amendment allows us all....

....Thank You .... for the emails and phone calls you've made in regards to the situation at hand.

Would like to also address the comment Schulman made in his comments aired on the radio.

Schulman stated that he told an Arizona caller, "Your next", referring to cc laws as they currently stand in Ohio and many other states.

He's right.
Only in the sense that if we as citizens don't let our feelings/thoughts be well known when a situation like this occurs, WE MIGHT BE NEXT.

We might be the next person to have our rights stepped on by some rogue/burnout cop. Arrested for no reason other than screw ups by the persons sworn to serve us that didn't do their job correctly.

Again, Thank for the support

PS . Canton City Council Pres. Allen Schulman can be reached directly at:


330-492-5409-this is his direct line which has been put on a Do Not Call List, imagine that . Maybe he doesn't like some of the calls he's been recieving. But if you call this number and leave your name/number on his answering machine he promises to call you back. We'll see.

or
330-456-4400
330-489-3223 If you call these numbers and ask for Allen Schulman, they will give you the 330-492-5409 number which is on the Do Not Call List.. Kinda makes me thinks some call screening may be going on.

PSS. For all Canton residents believing in the Const. of the United States. Don't know if your City Council President is appointed or elected, but its my understanding that Schulmans term is up at the end of 2011.

Per his comments aired on the radio concerning his beliefs in the Second Amendment, if the city council pres. seat is an elected one, now is the time to prepare on getting this guy unseated.

[Hardcase]

I always view (but not excuse) this kind of thing like I did when I worked in customer service. Nobody ever called to tell you about how great their (insert widget here) was working. They never let you know that everything was going fine. But when one of the (insert widget here) was defective, you got an earful.

Now, I say this, not to criticize anybody for giving us an earful (or, in this case, an eyeful, too) because this particular act of utter unprofessionalism deserves to be hollered to the heavens. I say it to point out that there are legions of officers, troopers and agents out there who are a credit to their profession. But since we expect that of them, we don't get up on a soapbox and crow about it. That's probably as it should be.

Anyway, I also want to add that that was one of the most uncomfortable videos that I've ever watched. And as utterly out of control as the officer appeared, the citizen who was arrested seemed to go well out of his way to prevent an already outrageous situation from getting even more out of hand. Well done to him.

[Al Norris]

Thank you for saying that, Hardcase.

It was a sorely needed reminder to everyone that posts in this particular thread.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

A video of a previous arrest by Officer Harless surfaced. In this video, he makes several of the same threats and uses some of the same language from the CHL video. However, the big difference here is that the suspects are not CHLs and there is a gun on the floor of the vehicle and the profanity and threats are made during the arrest.

http://www.cantonrep.com/newsnow/x20...another-arrest

In the more recent incident with the CHL, the CHL is complying with orders and handcuffed in the back of the squad car when the profanity and threats go on.

Either way, I'd guess Officer Harless is going to be looking for a new line of work soon. He is going to be almost impossible to hire from a liability perspective and from an arrest perspective, a lot of his cases are going to suffer.