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Old June 3, 2024, 11:45 AM   #151
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What's the most overrated handgun in your opinion?
Glock
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Old June 3, 2024, 11:50 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by jetinteriorguy View Post
I definitely would not say this, it’s more a matter of what I was expecting vs what it is based on reviews. I totally plan on keeping and shooting the heck out of it, the heavy trigger isn’t a problem for me, because of my work I have very strong hands and have been shooting revolvers mostly DA for well over 20 years. Remember, this thread isn’t about disliking a gun, it’s about it being over rated.
Can a gunsmith fix that trigger for you so it is similar to your Rugers?
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Old June 3, 2024, 03:04 PM   #153
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I would have to say Glock. Others like 1911s are actually state of the art combat pistols.
Designed for adverse conditions and made to specs of ordinance board. The hi dollar 1911 are nothing but same design made to closer tolerance and hand fitted. The Brn HP is another fine pistol but I don’t believe as forgiving in some conditions.
It seems to me the Glock fans are always pushing them. They are a plastic 9mm service pistol. If you were to exclude a pistol for accidental discharges the Glock would be the hands down winner vs the GI 1911-1911a1.
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Old June 3, 2024, 04:48 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by Mike Irwin
Kind of having trouble finding out where anyone, especially me, is talking about one shot stops...

I'll clarify...

I'm talking about conflating magazine capacity with the ability to use one's firearm proficiently.

They aren't the same thing, nor are they equal.
Personally, I was glad you clarified. I was going to respond with multiple assailants and some people may not want to be caught having to reload. Your follow-up comment points out a disturbing trend of some people using the reason for higher capacity.
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Old June 4, 2024, 05:19 AM   #155
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Can a gunsmith fix that trigger for you so it is similar to your Rugers?
I’m not gonna to mess with it, I’m already getting used to it. I am tempted to somehow take the edges off the serrations on the trigger though, but only if I can figure out how to do it without buggering things up.
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Old June 4, 2024, 06:39 AM   #156
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First of all.......DON'T expect truth in a GAO argument defending their own decisions.

And I've read many articles on this and many of them emphasize modularity as a huge factor.

This is one.......

https://www.americanconcealandcarry....nt%20advantage.

But after all......as you say.......it WAS a Modular Handgun System competition.

But Glock knew how weak the 320 was and assumed their overall superiority would give them a win even though the 19 offered less modularity.

On the other hand, a weak pistol can be made cheap and thus a low bid can also be made.

How weak is the SIG?

Listen to an Army guy who uses it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3UYFrwmBZk
"What happens in New Hampshire?"--best comment in the video, I got a good laugh out of that (and I live in Maine).

102 milion less than Glock's bid--can you say "Piggy-back economies of scale and costs savings passed on by Next Generation Squad Weapon Program"

I personally would rather have something that is 100% reliable and excels at one thing than have a multi-role that is unpredictable and "OK" at lots of things, so I would agree with the Glock assessment.
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Old June 4, 2024, 07:35 AM   #157
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"I was going to respond with multiple assailants and some people may not want to be caught having to reload."

And I'll respond with... What if you're attacked by a whole tribe of Hottentots?

8/14/17/250 rounds isn't going to do it!

That's one of the other great bugaboos that far too many people fixate on -- you're going to have to face down multiple determined attackers who, in the face of your gun, are bound and determined to kill you...

Sigh.

Jason Borne Jack Reacher John Mclean real life ain't.

Yes, there are numerous instances of Joes being set upon by multiple attackers... but those attackers are not hardened operators employing the latest envelopment and engagement tactics.

Those attackers are invariably opportunistic thugs looking for a soft target.

Invariably, when the soft target turns out to be not quite as soft as expected and pulls a gun and possibly fires it, the result is virtually always the attackers turning tail.

Yes, there are instances where the above doesn't apply. But they are the extremely rare exception.

The fixation should not be on gun capacity.

It should be on gun proficiency.

It you want to add a carry gun with capacity? That's fine.

But don't buy into the myth that you're going to have to John Wick your way out of situations every day and twice on Sundays.
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Old June 4, 2024, 09:08 AM   #158
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In truth, hardly any of us will ever get into ANY kind of gunfight.

However, we prepare for worst case. Concealed carry is just in case.

There are two new situations that have emerged in the last ten or 15 years--terror and teams of thugs coming to take you down.

My worst case is shopping center or church with three terrorists with AK47s.

Second worse case is three armed thugs who want my car.

The terrorists won't run. In trying to stay alive I need to move--to better cover or to gain tactical advantage and I'll probably have to use suppressing fire to cover my movement.

I'll need all that ammo unless they kill me before I use it up.

The thugs? Popular wisdom is they'll run away. Unless........they're hopped up on drugs or just crazy or simply bent on revenge because I already killed one of their buddies.

Not likely possibilities, but concealed carry is ALL about being alert, informed and having a plan in your head for both best and worst case.

(AND being properly equipped.)

Either way 15 shots and a spare 15 could be useful.

And proficiency? Sure. You damned well better be proficient with whatever you decide to carry.

I don't believe popular wisdom.......ever. I make my own.

Popular wisdom is usually real popular and not real wise.
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Old June 4, 2024, 09:19 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by jetinteriorguy View Post
I’m not gonna to mess with it, I’m already getting used to it. I am tempted to somehow take the edges off the serrations on the trigger though, but only if I can figure out how to do it without buggering things up.
What kind of idiot manufacturer makes a combat gun with a serrated trigger?

That aside, there will no doubt be a smooth trigger marketed that you can just pop in.

You say you're getting "used to" the heavy trigger pull.

Well, getting used to something and having the best are distinctly different things.

I'd take it to a good gunsmith and have him make it the best that it can be.

One can get used to a nagging wife, too.........but.......
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Old June 4, 2024, 12:12 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Irwin View Post
"I was going to respond with multiple assailants and some people may not want to be caught having to reload."

And I'll respond with... What if you're attacked by a whole tribe of Hottentots?

8/14/17/250 rounds isn't going to do it!

That's one of the other great bugaboos that far too many people fixate on -- you're going to have to face down multiple determined attackers who, in the face of your gun, are bound and determined to kill you...

Sigh.

Jason Borne Jack Reacher John Mclean real life ain't.

Yes, there are numerous instances of Joes being set upon by multiple attackers... but those attackers are not hardened operators employing the latest envelopment and engagement tactics.

Those attackers are invariably opportunistic thugs looking for a soft target.

Invariably, when the soft target turns out to be not quite as soft as expected and pulls a gun and possibly fires it, the result is virtually always the attackers turning tail.

Yes, there are instances where the above doesn't apply. But they are the extremely rare exception.

The fixation should not be on gun capacity.

It should be on gun proficiency.

It you want to add a carry gun with capacity? That's fine.

But don't buy into the myth that you're going to have to John Wick your way out of situations every day and twice on Sundays.
OK, as you clarified, I will, too.

I was just saying I agreed with you by way of "pointing out a disturbing trend of some people using the reason for higher capacity". Point's stipulated.

However, if I'm proficient with a platform that happens to have a higher capacity, I'm not downloading my magazine to fewer rounds. Also, as rare it may be, it sure does appear it's becoming more and more common assailants aren't acting alone and not just fleeing by the sound of a shotgun being racked. To ultimately play devil's advocate, I refuse to purposely carry fewer rounds based on faulty statistics. And, you said it best; have a plan for worst case. That worst case, albiet a small one, is dealing with multiple attackers.

It ins't about being John Wick. It's about being reasonably armed for the worst case scenario. YES, some people are fixated on capacity over proficiency. But to take a pass on capacity partly based on statistics if proficiency isn't lacking is not my cup of tea. That, and if it's OK to carry a higher capacity for your BUG is OK, maybe the BUG should be your primary from the get-go.
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Old June 4, 2024, 03:36 PM   #161
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"However, if I'm proficient with a platform that happens to have a higher capacity, I'm not downloading my magazine to fewer rounds."


Please tell me, or better yet show me, where I ever either said or suggested that should be the case.

This is exactly what I said...

"It should be on gun proficiency.

It you want to add a carry gun with capacity? That's fine."

I'll say it again... far too many people believe overall capacity somehow either equals, or trumps, proficiency.
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Old June 4, 2024, 03:40 PM   #162
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"However, we prepare for worst case."

So... you're carrying a high capacity handgun.

At least 5 reloads?

A backup handgun with an equal number of reloads?

A rifle? A shotgun? A full trauma pack?

No? Then are you truly prepared for the worst case?



"It ins't about being John Wick. It's about being reasonably armed for the worst case scenario."

Ah, now we're getting to the heart of the matter. Define REASONABLY ARMED.

Based on the way the discussion has been trending, someone with a 5-shot .38 isn't reasonably armed.

Someone with an 8 shot .45 isn't reasonably armed.

It would appear that someone who carries the aforementioned firearms isn't, in your mind, reasonably armed. Just why is that?

Given that even the average police gun fight (and some studies of civilian gun fights) indicate that fewer than, IIRC, 5 rounds total are fired, reasonably armed only kicks in when the magazine holds 10+ rounds?
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Old June 4, 2024, 03:48 PM   #163
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"What kind of idiot manufacturer makes a combat gun with a serrated trigger?"

Smith & Wesson and Colt... apparently three of the biggest idiots to ever manufacture firearms...
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Old June 4, 2024, 04:56 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by Mike Irwin View Post

So... you're carrying a high capacity handgun.

At least 5 reloads?

A backup handgun with an equal number of reloads?

A rifle? A shotgun? A full trauma pack?

No? Then are you truly prepared for the worst case?
LOL!

Obviously, your worst case is a little worse than mine.

I'll stick with mine. I'm 77 years old and can only carry so much.

(I do also carry a pretty formidable knife.)

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Old June 4, 2024, 04:57 PM   #165
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So what's reasonably armed?

I really depends on location and the person. First location. Where I live there have been six firearm related homicide deaths over the past four years. But that was a significant increase; four more than in the prior four years, a 200% increase.

In the town I lived in before moving here there were twelve fatal shootings but that was a 100% increase from the prior four year period.

In both cases the trend is worrying but the absolute number still relatively low. The two towns are very similar, about the same population and both with a large minority population, one Hispanic and the other Black. How ever one was rated as Low Gun Homicide Rate and the other as High Gun Homicide Rate primarily because the percentage of people living near a gun homicide stayed the same in one city and rose by 12% in the other.

In both cases the chances of being in a sustained gunfight or actually any gunfight are really really low.

The other factor is the individual. It's amazing how often I see folk out and about with earbuds lost in whatever they are listening to rather than the sounds around them or looking at a phone or tablet while walking and totally oblivious to anything else or juggling some mammoth cup of so called coffee or slushy or smoothie. For this group it is irrelevant how many rounds of ammo or what caliber ammo or how reliable their handgun might be, they are unprepared.
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Old June 4, 2024, 04:58 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by Mike Irwin View Post
"What kind of idiot manufacturer makes a combat gun with a serrated trigger?"

Smith & Wesson and Colt... apparently three of the biggest idiots to ever manufacture firearms...
Not their first mistake.
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Old June 4, 2024, 05:02 PM   #167
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Define REASONABLY ARMED.
Glock 19 w/spare mag.

Buck folding knife plus Swiss Army Knife.

Nail clippers.
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Old June 4, 2024, 05:19 PM   #168
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We're so far off now, I can't even see the weeds, let alone the OP topic.

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Old June 4, 2024, 05:39 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by Tool View Post
To me it is the CZ P-01. I bought it because of the overwhelming good reviews and the fact that it is on the NATO approved list.

This handgun fits my hand like a glove. However, the good story ends there. In my experience, it is very hard to reliably chamber a bullet into the barrel. The bullets will get stuck in all sorts of ways. It seems like it has a very tight throat. In comparison, I tried all sorts of ways to jam my HK VP9 even by riding the slide, but that thing just never fails.

I took the P-01 to the range and was surprised to see that it cycled ok in live rounds, as long as I could chamber the first bullet successfully. However, I also found something I really dislike about this gun. All the bullet shells would either fall on my head or hit my face. In a few cases, it nearly hit my eyes.

I also find lots of scratches on the slide where it contacts the lower half of the gun. I tried to reach out to CZ about these issues and they never bothered to get back to me.
Am still using a cz 75 compact for plunk testing any handloaded 9mm round. As previously indicated, they can have very short throats. If using handloads in yours, might consider doing plunk test, if you aren't already. Haven't had trouble with any factory rounds, but don't use many of em.
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