What .30-06 projectile/powder for 1,000 yards?

[Charlie98]

The advantage of the '06 is it's large case capacity.

In my 'case' it's .308, not .30-06 like the OP... but the net result should be the same. I do agree with using that big '06 case to it's fullest, however.

[Wag]

At our local range, we have to qualify to use the 1,000 range. You get a pin that says where you can shoot from.

TL;DR

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175 to 180gr bullets
Taller scope mounts
Better butt stock or shoulder pad.

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So, I went to qualify one day and was using:

Ruger M77 MkII in 30-06
Basic Leupold scope (sorry I don't recall which one)
Core Lokt 160 bullets (Remington?)
A beat up shoulder from trying to zero it all in at 300 yards the previous day!

I originally intended to shoot prone from the ground using a bag rest but when I arrived at the range, some VERY generous people loaned me a bench so I was able to put the bag on the bench.

I zeroed at 300 yards and got what I thought were good groups and all shots in the black. Easy.

Then I moved to 600 yards. I had calculated the scope adjustment to 8 clicks up but a guy at the range, again, very generously, had a Palm pilot ballistics program with my ammo in it and he advised I crank it to 9.75 clicks up which I did. That put me spot on dead center with the first shot! Pure luck, in my mind. The rest of the group was very good and the gentlemen helping me commented on how well I had done. I was too naive to really know but they liked it. All shots in the black. I wish I could remember the group size.

I had to stop after that so I'm only allowed to use the range at 600 yards.

My reasons for stopping were:
Dead shoulder from shooting about 40 rounds in two days.
The other people at the range advised that I should use 180gr bullets to go to any longer distance
My scope mount wouldn't crank up enough to see the target.

Bottom line:
175 to 180gr bullets
Taller scope mounts
Better butt stock or shoulder pad.

--Wag--

[USSR]

Wag,

I don't exactly know what you are referring to when you say "My scope mount wouldn't crank up enough to see the target". I believe what you are saying is you don't have enough elevation adjustment in your scope to enable you to reach 1,000 yards. What you need to do is get a scope base with a 20 MOA slope built into it. This will enable you to use less elevation adjustment to reach out to 1,000 yards.

Don

[Rangerrich99]

delete, double post.

[Rangerrich99]

So after looking at my projected available free time over the next 7 weeks, I've decided that my first move here is to try some factory match-grade ammo, if I can find any. I've had a bit of a difficult time even finding any .30-06 match-grade bullets. Most of the places I've looked both locally and online only have hunting cartridges it seems. Maybe someone here can point me in the right direction.

On yet another side note, the idea that I might not have enough elevation adjustment had me checking my scope, which has 65 MOA of elevation adjustment, according to the Vortex website. Any idea if that's enough?

[USSR]

So after looking at my projected available free time over the next 7 weeks, I've decided that my first move here is to try some factory match-grade ammo, if I can find any. I've had a bit of a difficult time even finding any .30-06 match-grade bullets. Most of the places I've looked both locally and online only have hunting cartridges it seems. Maybe someone here can point me in the right direction.

Good luck finding suitable factory ammo for 1,000 target shooting. The only '06 match ammo that I am aware of is the Federal Gold Medal Match ammo with a 168gr SMK bullet. As I previously stated, this bullet is totally unsuitable for long range (beyond 600 yards) shooting.

On yet another side note, the idea that I might not have enough elevation adjustment had me checking my scope, which has 65 MOA of elevation adjustment, according to the Vortex website. Any idea if that's enough?

That will not be enough. With my 190SMK load at 2900fps, I required 30.5 MOA more of elevation from my 100 yard zero. With 65 MOA of total adjustment, that only gives you 32.5 MOA of adjustment IF YOU ARE LUCKY AND ARE IN THE MIDDLE AT 100 YARDS. Almost to a man, everybody shooting in 1,000 yard competition uses a base with built in slope so that less scope adjustment is necessary to reach 1k. So, to summarize: the .30-06 for 1,000 yard shooting is a reloading proposition, and a scope base with a 20 MOA slope is required. Hope that helps.

Don

[Rangerrich99]

Originally Posted by USSR

Good luck finding suitable factory ammo for 1,000 target shooting. The only '06 match ammo that I am aware of is the Federal Gold Medal Match ammo with a 168gr SMK bullet. As I previously stated, this bullet is totally unsuitable for long range (beyond 600 yards) shooting.



That will not be enough. With my 190SMK load at 2900fps, I required 30.5 MOA more of elevation from my 100 yard zero. With 65 MOA of total adjustment, that only gives you 32.5 MOA of adjustment IF YOU ARE LUCKY AND ARE IN THE MIDDLE AT 100 YARDS. Almost to a man, everybody shooting in 1,000 yard competition uses a base with built in slope so that less scope adjustment is necessary to reach 1k. So, to summarize: the .30-06 for 1,000 yard shooting is a reloading proposition, and a scope base with a 20 MOA slope is required. Hope that helps.

Don

Well, there's this stuff: http://www.snipercentral.com/product...gr-hpbt-match/

They also seem to have some 178 grain match.

I've been asking around and it seems I do have to get a new base for my scope. Thanks for the info so far guys.

[Road_Clam]

All of my high powder precision scopes end up in the lower 1/3 of the elevation adjustment range at 100 yds . A few of my premium scopes "could" reach 1K without a 20 moa rail by my turret tests but it's too close for comfort. I always fit my 15 moa rail when i'm going to shoot 1K.

[5whiskey]

I have one scope that I have never needed to shim or use a base to add elevation (It's a Bushnell Elite) so there are exceptions to the rule. I've used that scope on two rifles, same results (one of them being a .308 so I'm not exactly shooting laser bullets). I'm fairly confident I could get to 1,200 yards before I needed to shim the scope or use a 20moa base.

Another question, now that we're discussing matters. Do most civilian shooters still use MOA adjustments for their common corrections, calls, and adjustments? I understand many scopes still adjust by MOA, which is a pain to fully convert to mils (although I've found 1/2moa is pretty darn close to 1/8mil, it works well enough until you get past 600 yards). I'm from a military background, and so is my long distance shooting. I measure everything except groups in Mils. I'm just wondering what others here do.

[Wag]

Originally Posted by USSR

Wag,

I don't exactly know what you are referring to when you say "My scope mount wouldn't crank up enough to see the target". I believe what you are saying is you don't have enough elevation adjustment in your scope to enable you to reach 1,000 yards. What you need to do is get a scope base with a 20 MOA slope built into it. This will enable you to use less elevation adjustment to reach out to 1,000 yards.

Don

Yes, exactly. It's been a while and I still haven't taken the time to get the higher scope mounts and get back out there to requal.

--Wag--

[USSR]

It's been a while and I still haven't taken the time to get the higher scope mounts and get back out there to requal.

Wag,

You don't want higher scope mounts. You want a 20 MOA base, which is not higher than other bases.

Don

[Wag]

Originally Posted by USSR

Wag,

You don't want higher scope mounts. You want a 20 MOA base, which is not higher than other bases.

Don

That makes more sense. One of these days, I'll get it done!

--Wag--

[Rangerrich99]

Just a quick update:

Put together my first test ladder and sent them downrange today (sorry no pics).

For this ladder, I used Lapua brass, Sierra Matchkings 190 grains BTHP, over H4350 up to 56.6 grains. All rounds fired, all primers showed no signs of overpressure, cratering, etc. All brass likewise showed no signs of overpressure.

At 100 yards, the best group was with the 56.6 grains of H4350, almost a cloverleaf 3-shot group just over 0.5 inches (0.568). 2nd best group was 56.2 grains just over 0.75 inches (0.788 inches center-to-centers). Of course, 3-shot groups are barely indicative of anything, but I can hope something in there turns out to be the magic pill recipe.

Next step of course is to put together another test ladder, put the Viper scope on the rifle, and lighten the trigger pull on the Accu-Trigger a bit. Oh, and get a shoulder recoil pad; my shoulder was starting to feel like it was getting mushed towards the end there.

[hounddawg]

never shot 30-06 but for a .308 the 155.5 grain Berger shoots extremely well. Using that bullet then whatever powder that can safely get you at least 2950 fps out the door and gives you low SD and low ES. A 50 FPS ES can affect the bullet by a foot or more. Measure your powder as close as you can

[RC20]

You would be well off to get a after market spring for the Acu trigger as yours will be Acu Hunt weight (2.5 lobs minimum) and the spring will let you adjust down to 1.5 (ala Acu Varmint)

I thought at one time 2.5 lbs is fine but target shooting no. I would prefer a bit lighter yet but have to aftermarket of finagle a Acu Target (about 1/2 lb)

Long term a Shilen barrel would be grand, 26 inch for 1000 yards. Criterion is also considered equal but I have not had one. Shilen is rock solid

I am in love with 30-06, grew up with it and to date the overall capability in a huge range has never been surpassed (my opinion of course). Lots will do parts as good o better but none do as good (The 8mm was also a good one and I lament the lack of 7.5 Swiss development or spread as its an amazing cartridge)

[Rangerrich99]

Originally Posted by RC20

You would be well off to get a after market spring for the Acu trigger as yours will be Acu Hunt weight (2.5 lobs minimum) and the spring will let you adjust down to 1.5 (ala Acu Varmint)

I thought at one time 2.5 lbs is fine but target shooting no. I would prefer a bit lighter yet but have to aftermarket of finagle a Acu Target (about 1/2 lb)

Long term a Shilen barrel would be grand, 26 inch for 1000 yards. Criterion is also considered equal but I have not had one. Shilen is rock solid

I am in love with 30-06, grew up with it and to date the overall capability in a huge range has never been surpassed (my opinion of course). Lots will do parts as good o better but none do as good (The 8mm was also a good one and I lament the lack of 7.5 Swiss development or spread as its an amazing cartridge)

Thanks. Just purchased the Accu-Trigger Varmint. Should have it Monday.

[hounddawg]

What kind of velocity and SD 's are you getting ? With the SMK 's long boat tail it should survive transonic, what powder are you using ? VV N550 with the heavy bullets worked well as I recall, again this was on 308 Wins.

You will find that SD will be as important if not more important than dime sized groups at 100. For example lets say you send that 190 gn pill down at 2600 fps. Next shot with same exact point of aim except it is only 2550 FPS hits 18 inches lower. In F class the 100 yard target has a 10 inch 10 ring, the X ring 5 inches

If you are not chrono'ing your loads looking for a low SD and ES you need to be. Wind, mirage, and inconsistent ammo is your worst enemy at 1000. 800 is a cakewalk in comparison

[Rangerrich99]

I don't know yet what velocity I'm getting. I don't have a chrono so I have to reverse engineer it. Once I get some shots at 200, 300 and 400 (maybe even 500) yards I'll be able to take the data and get close on velocity.

I'm using H4350 for powder, since that's what I've got, but several people both here on the forum as well as target shooting friends of mine here in PHX recommended it. Since I have a couple lbs. that's what I've decided to use.

By 'SD' I assume you mean sectional density'? Isn't that just physical data that's usually listed either on the box or in the manual?

[hounddawg]

SD is standard deviation, you need to find someone with a chrono and preferably some long range reloading experience to give you a hand with your load development.

You don't need a Labradar just a inexpensive optical will do. I am using a sub $100 Pro Chrono and am getting good results at the target. Invest in some of Bryan Litzs books and do a search for Erik Cortinas 100 yard load development thread at Accurate Shooter.

I have never had the opportunity to shoot beyond 800 myself. I want to some day and good luck to you.

[Rangerrich99]

Originally Posted by hounddawg

SD is standard deviation, you need to find someone with a chrono and preferably some long range reloading experience to give you a hand with your load development.

You don't need a Labradar just a inexpensive optical will do. I am using a sub $100 Pro Chrono and am getting good results at the target. Invest in some of Bryan Litzs books and do a search for Erik Cortinas 100 yard load development thread at Accurate Shooter.

I have never had the opportunity to shoot beyond 800 myself. I want to some day and good luck to you.

Ah, gotcha on the SD thing.

I have Litz's, "Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting," about a third of the way through now.

I'd like to get a chrono, the MagnetoSpeed looks interesting, but alas, right now it's just not in the budget. Heck right now I only have a budget for two, maybe three more test ladders, then I have to choose a recipe and hope for the best.

I have been pestering a buddy of mine that has some experience with long range target shooting/reloading, but our schedules aren't simpatico, so mostly to this point I'm going solo.

However, in my favor, I've been told that only a few targets will be beyond 800 yards so I'm fairly confident that if I can find a cartridge that performs well at 500-600 yards, I probably won't make a fool of myself.

Anyway, thanks for all the help people, hopefully I'll have another update in a week or so. With any luck I'll have narrowed things down to two or three prospects by then.

[RC20]

4350 is a good solid 30-06 powder.

R17 is an interesting one for down the road if you keep at it.

I like H4831 but its a bit slow to max out velocity - its temp stable so a bit of help over the range of shooting 0 to 75 or so degrees.

[Yosemite Steve]

Has anybody tried using Superformance powder for these long shots? I'm not a 1000 yd shooter but my best loads for my Savage 110 are Superformance. I'm getting the most consistent velocities and it meters perfectly. That said it is designed for higher velocities. My bullet of choice has been a 180 gr. SST but I'm going for max hunting performance.

[stillquietvoice]

You might try and add some weight to your stock to help reduce recoil a bit, it may keep mushy shoulder away

[jonnefudge]

I have shoot some 155scenars at 930meters and it worked great. It was not a super hot load and from a 308 with a 20” barrel. However this was not in windy conditions.