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Old January 19, 2011, 11:45 PM   #26
Bamashooter
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I bought my wife a cz82 for christmas. I dont have any problem getting ammo for it at good prices to boot. Parts are out there if you need them. I know a couple of well qualified gunsmith's if I run up on a part I cant replace myself. By the way, the accuracy of the cz82 is crazy.
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Old January 20, 2011, 01:57 AM   #27
hemiram
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Because two of the prettiest guns ever made are .380's...

The Beretta 84
The Browning BDA .380
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Old January 23, 2011, 03:11 PM   #28
brianm767
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Although not the best caliber for self defense, it's the biggest caliber that offers a true pocket pistol platform, that is IMOP.

Often my son never has his carry weapon with him, I ask, do you have your gun? he says no, I ask why? he says it's too bulky, so rather than not carrying any thing, it's better to have a .380 in your pocket, than a 9mm or .40 sitting at home in your safe.

I bought a Kahr P380 for just that reason, when I dot want to carry a PM9 or M&P40C in a holster, I'll throw the .380 in my front pocket.

Many carry PM9's in their pocket, to me it's too big, doable, but not practical for me.
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Old January 23, 2011, 03:47 PM   #29
Daryl
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Using the "logic" employed against it, why get a 9mm when you can get a .40 or a 10mm.
My thoughts exactly. Why not?

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Old January 23, 2011, 07:27 PM   #30
JCP281
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To me, any gun is better than no gun. My theory is that the sight of the pistol alone will deter most people, and connecting a few rounds of JHP sure wont feel good.

Im from the school of I will only cary something if I forget its there. Anything I can slide in my pocket( most .380's and some small 9mms) is what i want to cary. Caliber size is an afterthought to me.
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Old January 24, 2011, 04:03 AM   #31
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Back when I owned a .380, 20+ years ago, the 9x18 Makarov wasn't really an option. Makarovs, and other firearms that used that round, were still collector's items and ammunition was hard to get. Even then, the ammo that you could buy was ball type and probably corrosive IIRC.
Today, I wouldn't consider a .380 because of the compact 9mm's that are available. Likewise, I wouldn't use a 9x18 because I don't see it as being much of a step-up from the .380.

Just my $0.02.
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Old January 24, 2011, 05:08 AM   #32
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At one time the .380 was the go to pistol for compact easy to conceal weapons. I own some really nice Colt, Walther and Browning .380s. With the advent of the PM9 I seldom carry a .380. I don't slide a PM9 into my pants pocket, but the little bugger practically disappears in my waistband with a good IWB. I would buy a .380 because they are fun to shoot until you get down to the LCP, P3AT size. The only .380 I would consider getting these days would be the Kahr P380. It would be a handy drop in the pocket pistol for that quick run to the store, but more importantly it's a well made subcompact pocket pistol that would be worth owning just because. That's really all the reason one needs.
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Old January 24, 2011, 05:27 AM   #33
Kaiser T
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JCP281:
Quote:
To me, any gun is better than no gun. My theory is that the sight of the pistol alone will deter most people, and connecting a few rounds of JHP sure wont feel good.

Im from the school of I will only cary something if I forget its there. Anything I can slide in my pocket( most .380's and some small 9mms) is what i want to cary. Caliber size is an afterthought to me.
Very well reasoned! Agree 100%.
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Old January 24, 2011, 08:02 AM   #34
Nakanokalronin
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I use my P238 as a pocket option when my Kimber UC II or other IWB gun won't do.

I have yet to find anything above a 380 caliber pistol that does not look like a tumor, especially when sitting down. Back-pocket is an option I've tried and realized you need a deep pocket so the gun won't show from the top and when sitting down, well its literally a pain in the ***.
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Old January 24, 2011, 08:45 AM   #35
orangello
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I purchased a Bersa Thunder .380 last week and will be ordering a CZ-82 this week. I bought the Bersa for eventual pocket carry and to convince my sister to upgrade her "purse gun" from a .25 to the .380. I am ordering the CZ-82 to compare to the Bersa for myself and as a potential pocket carry pistol. Both will take turns as the glove box gun (thank you MS laws).

From what i've seen, the two pistols are almost identical in size and basic appearance, though the Bersa will be a bit lighter in weight. The CZ-82 does hold a few more rounds than the single-stack version of the Bersa Thunder .380 (the version i purchased).

I tried the Bersa out Saturday and was very satisfied with the accuracy and recoil. Front pocket concealability is great for me with the lil Bersa.
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Old January 24, 2011, 10:19 AM   #36
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Recoil for a pocket gun.
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Shot placement is everything! I would rather take a round of 50BMG to the foot than a 22short to the base of the skull.

all 26 of my guns are 45/70 govt, 357 mag, 22 or 12 ga... I believe in keeping it simple. Wish my wife did as well...
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Old January 24, 2011, 10:34 AM   #37
JCP281
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I dont know if this is what you mean by
Quote:
Recoil for a pocket gun.
but this is my perception it:

Using "recoil" as a deterrent for something that is going to only be used in a defensive roll, when fight or flight instincts are going to be in heavy effect is just foolish. If your life ever depends on your pistol, the last thing your going to notice is felt recoil.
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Old January 24, 2011, 10:53 AM   #38
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Quote:
Using "recoil" as a deterrent for something that is going to only be used in a defensive roll, when fight or flight instincts are going to be in heavy effect is just foolish. If your life ever depends on your pistol, the last thing your going to notice is felt recoil.
If you've ever had to physically defend yourself, you'd know that the more imminent the threat is, the more wild shooting tends to become. Added recoil tends to exacerbate an already prevalent difficulty of keeping your sights or aim on target; especially with a weapon that has low weight, low capacity, short sight radius, low profile/ugly sights, and increased difficulty controlling successive shots.

The question of recoil in small-framed pistols is certainly not a groundless criticism or consideration regarding choosing your personal defense weapon.

~LT
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Old January 24, 2011, 10:58 AM   #39
JCP281
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Quote:
If you've ever had to physically defend yourself, you'd know that the more imminent the threat is, the more wild shooting tends to become. Added recoil tends to exacerbate an already prevalent difficulty of keeping your sights or aim on target; especially with a weapon that has low weight, low capacity, short sight radius, low profile/ugly sights, and increased difficulty controlling successive shots.

The question of recoil in small-framed pistols is certainly not a groundless criticism or consideration regarding choosing your personal defense weapon.

~LT
I dont know about you guys, but if a bad guy is far enough away from me where i have to use my sights, im beatin feat and running the other way. The way I invision 99.9999% of the situations to where I need to draw my pistol, is a close engagement less than 5 feet away. Ill never see the sights. Within that distance, your going to have to work HARD not to hit your target given a point and shoot scenario.

When your talking .380 your talking deep concealment, small frame, tucked in a pocket (usually). If your not going to cary it like that, the .380 is pointless and a larger frame can easily be substituted for IWB cary. Recoil should not even be considered IMO.
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Old January 24, 2011, 11:53 AM   #40
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Quote:
The way I invision 99.9999% of the situations to where I need to draw my pistol, is a close engagement less than 5 feet away.
The most useless and dangerous thing in your defense arsenal is the way you always thought defending yourself would go, when it doesn't.

Be prepared to defend yourself in every reasonable event you can. I don't consider taking time to aim properly unreasonable.

~LT
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Old January 24, 2011, 12:09 PM   #41
JCP281
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well lets be resonable here..

If your far enough away from me to where I NEED to aim, and I cant just put my pistol in your gut, WHY AM I NOT TRYING TO RUN AWAY? When somone is going to rob you, they dont shout at you from 15-20 feet away, they come up on you and jam a gun or knife into you and make their demands.

I think Ruger/kel tec/NAA etc agree with me on this matter jusdging by there lack of sights on their pocket pistols. Im not saying what your stating is wrong, but for the type of gun we are talking about here, they are not designed to be aimed really. They are point and shoot pistols.
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Old January 24, 2011, 01:03 PM   #42
LordTio3
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Quote:
If your far enough away from me to where I NEED to aim, and I cant just put my pistol in your gut, WHY AM I NOT TRYING TO RUN AWAY? When somone is going to rob you, they dont shout at you from 15-20 feet away, they come up on you and jam a gun or knife into you and make their demands.
This is not meant in jest or with insult, but the above statement sounds like the sentiment of a person who has never had to defend themselves against someone who wants your life.

How far does it take to close 21 feet? The Tueller Drill says 1.5 seconds on average. And what if your assailant is 10-15 feet away with a knife and currently closing that distance? Not unheard of for someone to be threatening you. Are you going to turn your back on said assailant and try to run? You'd be an idiot if you tried. At this point, you open the distance between you by moving backward, draw your weapon, Take Aim, and prepare to fire until he stops. It might be awfully hard to train to do that if you're shooting 230grain .45acp rounds out of a 12 ounce 2.5" pistol.

Especially if... God forbid...

...there's 2 of them.

Quote:
I think Ruger/kel tec/NAA etc agree with me on this matter jusdging by there lack of sights on their pocket pistols. Im not saying what your stating is wrong, but for the type of gun we are talking about here, they are not designed to be aimed really. They are point and shoot pistols.
The lowering and rounding of sights on "pocket pistols" is an outgrowth of the growing popularity of carrying them in pockets. High-profile sights tend to snag on loose fabric like the lip of a pants or jacket pocket; and may add significant recovery time to your draw/fire time, or... god forbid... cause you to drop your weapon. Low-profile/rounded sights (like the terrible, but ever-popular "dovetail" rear sights on many pocket pistols like the LCP), tend to draw much more cleanly without the risk of snagging.

While they are often referred to as "Phone Booth" or "Belly" guns, meaning their intended range is very close, they did put sights on the weapon for a reason other than "It's just habit." You need to be able to accurately shoot your weapon and take a careful shot. Because you very well may have to take a second to accurately shoot your weapon or take a careful shot. And it would really help to have a smaller caliber that is better fit to the weapon in your hands in order to be able to accomplish that.

~LT
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Old January 24, 2011, 05:07 PM   #43
testuser
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I use a .380 over the 9X18mm because I can get components for reloading much easier. It's usually less than $6 a box of 50. Brass can be had for free at the range or ordered from just about anywhere.

If it were just the brass, then I wouldn't worry about it so much. You buy the brass once and reload it, no big deal. The real issue is the odd sized projectile. They're a good deal more expensive than .380 projectiles, even when they weigh the same.
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Old January 24, 2011, 07:38 PM   #44
verdun59
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Well for one thing my Kahr P380 will honestly fit in my front pocket. Apparently I'm one of the few people in this country who can't wear a 1911 in his front pocket, or a whole lot of people are fibbing.
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Old January 24, 2011, 08:38 PM   #45
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IMO, the .380 is one step to low on the primary SD spectrum. Ok for a backup gun but I'll stick to 38spl.(loaded right) or above for my first choice. I've never had a problem with pocket carrying a 442 or 642.
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Old January 24, 2011, 08:49 PM   #46
B.N.Real
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I am not going to be able to outrun a young or two young assailants.

Just trying that will put me at a big tactical disadvantage because I'll have to turn my back to the bad guys.

Not to mention the fact that my physically ill wife will be with me and I'll be xxxxed if anyone's going to do anything to her.

I'm not watching from the ground as some xxxxbag smashes his fist in her face as a joke.

No,if all I have is a 380-it will be empty and the two bad guys will know they've made a grave mistake -should it ever come to that.

But it should'nt.

But you never know what the next five minutes brings your way.

Running is'nt an option for most people over fifty years of age.
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Old January 24, 2011, 09:03 PM   #47
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Quote:
Running isn't an option for most people over fifty years of age
+100

....at least not running very far.
At this age, if all I've got is a pocket knife, I may as well save my energy, stand and fight. If I have to fight after I run, somebodies gonna have their way with me .
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Old January 24, 2011, 10:43 PM   #48
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Just bought a p-83, but will buy a PPk one day.
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Old January 24, 2011, 10:51 PM   #49
Bamashooter
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Actually loading for the 9x18 isnt that expensive. 100pcs. starline brass.14.99 100 95gr. Hornady Xtp 17.99. I also saw a TMJ 95gr. bullet for 16.99 per 100. Fortunatly I have over 300pcs. of 9x18 brass that was given to me. All the comparisons I saw the mak had more energy and velosity than the .380. My CZ-82 will hold 12rds. another plus. Sierra makes a 100gr. bullet for the mak. Im not knocking the .380. That would be a bare minimum. I could have gotten the .380 when I bought her the mak. I just picked the one that I knew was better becouse its for my wife.
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Old January 24, 2011, 11:20 PM   #50
MCCALL911
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Quote:
If you've ever had to physically defend yourself, you'd know that the more imminent the threat is, the more wild shooting tends to become. Added recoil tends to exacerbate an already prevalent difficulty of keeping your sights or aim on target; especially with a weapon that has low weight, low capacity, short sight radius, low profile/ugly sights, and increased difficulty controlling successive shots.

The question of recoil in small-framed pistols is certainly not a groundless criticism or consideration regarding choosing your personal defense weapon.
A lot of wisdom here!
Trouble in controlling the recoil of your defense weapon could cost you dearly.
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