looking to buy a new rifle ?

rebs · December 20, 2018, 09:54 AM

Looking for a rifle in 223 for informal benchrest shooting between 100 and 300 yds. maybe a savage 12 fv from cabelas or a precision rifle in savage or rugar. Help me decide ?

hounddog409 · December 20, 2018, 12:31 PM

of those listed, I would recommend the Ruger.

Always been a fan of Ruger, and own or have owned a bunch with out issue.

I am not a fan of Savage, but this is not saying they are not good rifles.

Actually a Ruger Precision is on my short list for next purchase.

T. O'Heir · December 20, 2018, 01:33 PM

What's your budget?
"...Savage or RugEr..." Six of this, half dozen of that. You can buy strictly on the price but try 'em both on for size if you can.
Cabela's shows there is a decided difference in price between a 12 FV and the Ruger. A 20" .223 Ruger runs roughly a grand. $379.97(currently on sale) for a 12 FV, that is a varmint hunting rifle, not a target rifle.

MarkCO · December 20, 2018, 02:46 PM

If you want a disposable, meaning when you shoot out the barrel in say 8K rounds, you sell it and buy another, the Ruger American Predator with AR15 mags. $500ish.

In the middle, maybe a Tikka T3 Varmint.

If you want something more refined that will be about $500 to rebarrel, then a Bergara HMR-Pro. $1500ish

taylorce1 · December 21, 2018, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkCO

If you want a disposable, meaning when you shoot out the barrel in say 8K rounds, you sell it and buy another, the Ruger American Predator with AR15 mags. $500ish.

Why disposable? The Ruger is as easy to swap a roached out barrel on as a Savage for around $350. You can always upgrade the stock to a chassis as well and I imagine you'll eventually see a McMillan or Manners. B&C already has a Medalist for the rotary mag rifles.

kilotanker22 · December 21, 2018, 07:11 AM

There are tons of excellent options in your category. I would venture to say that you couldnt go wrong with any option from Savage, Remington, Ruger, Winchester, Bergara,CZ or Tikka. The list goes on and on. My personal preferences lie with Savage, Winchester and Remington. Price wise Savage, Ruger and Remington all have similarly price budget lines. That all shoot sub 1 moa with some care. You will find far more after market parts and upgrades for a Savage 110 or Remington 700. Than probably any other make and models.

My recommendation? Savage 110 tactical, Varmint. Or Remington 700 SPS Varmint, VTR or SPS Tactical.

taylorce1 · December 21, 2018, 08:32 AM

Winchester hasn't made a .223 for several years, and they had a 1:12 twist barrel better suited to 55 grain bullets or less. With the bullet options today I'd try and find a 1:8 twist rifle, the Ruger American rifles offer that. Savage and Remington use 1:9 twist which would my second choice.

MarkCO · December 21, 2018, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taylorce1

Why disposable? The Ruger is as easy to swap a roached out barrel on as a Savage for around $350. You can always upgrade the stock to a chassis as well and I imagine you'll eventually see a McMillan or Manners. B&C already has a Medalist for the rotary mag rifles.

Because they are cheap. When you go to start rebarreling them, you want to clean up the machining and true things and pretty soon you have spent $500 on a $400 rifle. Better to shoot them for about 1/2 to 3/4 of their life and sell it.

Sharkbite · December 21, 2018, 10:52 AM

Id vote Ruger as well, but id opt for the Ruger Precision rifle

Comes out of the box ready to go. Slap on some glass and get shooting. When you shoot out the barrel, its as easy to change as an AR.

Don Fischer · December 21, 2018, 11:41 AM

I've never owned a Savage CF rifle but of the two that's where I'd go. They didn't get that reputation for accuracy for nothing. I've had a couple Ruger 77's, older wood stock's. Beautiful rifle's that left a lot to be desired in the accuracy department. If I were looking into a 223 for target shooting it would be a 700 Remington. I've only even seen one Remington I couldn't make shoot, a mod 7 when they first came out. Never have another it was so bad. Have a 700 ADL I got as a gift years ago that shot about as bad as a rifle could. Pryed the stock off and completely rebedded it and found a 1/2" rifle. Today it has a wood stock! I have it stuck in my mind that if accurate is what you want you need a round action. Remington and I believe Savage have that. Look at the custom action's made for bench rest shooting, all are round actions. I think the deal is they are much easier to bed. Probably a bit stiffer too if that matter's. I have a 700 BDL long action I put one piece Leupold base on with the intention of stiffing up the action some. Don't know if it did but the rifle sure shoot's! I never tried bedding either of my Ruger's, that recoil lug has me stumped. Ruger mod 77, one of the most beautiful production rifles in my opinion but I'd never buy one looking for accuracy!

taylorce1 · December 21, 2018, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkCO

Because they are cheap. When you go to start rebarreling them, you want to clean up the machining and true things and pretty soon you have spent $500 on a $400 rifle. Better to shoot them for about 1/2 to 3/4 of their life and sell it.

How far out of true are they, have you had one apart to check? Modern machining tools usually get things pretty close the first time. I'd be willing to bet that's why most shoot well out of the box.

Yep, they are cheap I'll give you that. So are Savage Axis rifles and people screw on new tubes all the time. Just because they are cheap doesn't really equate to disposable IMO.

MarkCO · December 21, 2018, 12:20 PM

Disposable is probably not the best term. Use, wash, sell...repeat. I am on my 2nd RAP in .243Win and I will likely sell it this spring. About 5K on the All weather RA in .223 I use as a trainer for new shooters. My first one, it cost me $75 to put 2K through it. Sold it to a guy who is going to shoot a box a year at Deer and Pronghorn.

I have had three completely apart. One a RAP and the other a RA all weather and a RPR. What I found was consistent with what others who have trued up their RPRs. Bolt lugs and faces, some in the barrel locking lugs as well. I guess the nice thing is that they can really be squared up and polished up at home, if one wants to, since headspace is easy to reset.

From a $ per round with decent accuracy, the Rugers are, for me, a great value. Even as a high volume shooter, I have to balance the time I spend reloading, shooting and working on guns. For me, it takes about 30 minutes of time to sell one and get another. So it is 1/3rd the time and cost to sell and replace as to true up and rebarrel. I'll use that time on my higher priced rifles though, and those are what I mostly shoot in matches.

jmr40 · December 21, 2018, 12:22 PM

I'm a fan of the Ruger. But I'd also call it a disposable rifle. Yes, it is possible to re-barrel one. But I don't think it is cost effective. They are plenty accurate as is and if I ever wore one out I'd probably just buy another rather than try to replace the barrel. It would cost less, and probably shoot just as well.

For what the OP wants to do he can buy 2 or 3 of the Ruger Predators for what the Precision rifle costs. Same barrel, same action, same accuracy. The stock isn't worth that much to me and the versions that take AR magazines are a bargain.

Quote:

I've never owned a Savage CF rifle but of the two that's where I'd go. They didn't get that reputation for accuracy for nothing. I've had a couple Ruger 77's, older wood stock's. Beautiful rifle's that left a lot to be desired in the accuracy department.

The 77 was never designed with accuracy in mind. It was designed with rugged reliability in mind. The new Ruger American series isn't the same rifle and incorporates a lot of design features designed to enhance accuracy. It'll shoot with anything short of a custom rig costing 10X as much.

MarkCO · December 21, 2018, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharkbite

Id vote Ruger as well, but id opt for the Ruger Precision rifle

Comes out of the box ready to go. Slap on some glass and get shooting. When you shoot out the barrel, its as easy to change as an AR.

I have had three of those too. The one I have left only has the receivers and bolt left and is a highly customized integrally suppressed .308. Not as easy to change the barrel as an AR. Some of the barrel nuts take serious breaker bars to break them loose, and you still need a barrel vice and to set the headspace.

If we are voting, I'd take a Bergara or Tikka over the RPRs everytime. Better overall fit and finish for about the same amount of coin.

RC20 · December 21, 2018, 01:22 PM

The Savage would be my choice for a keeper.

It has the acu trigger and that is a very good trigger, not quite a great one but good. The 12FV gets the varmint acu that goes down to 1.5 lbs.

You can change the barrel easily and upgrade in the process.

Bolt head floats so it has more up side in not needing to be blue printed to get accurate. Don't get me wrong, you want to shoot sub 1/4 MOA you will need a higher grade setup, but for varmint or target work its good.

Boyds makes great drop in stocks, I like the laminates for looks and they are composite so they don't move.

You will spend more on the scope than the rifle.

MarkCO · December 21, 2018, 03:36 PM

The reason I stay away from Savage is that it is up for sale by Vista, partly in an attempt to sanitize Vista from the scourge of selling guns. Every company that has taken that path has seen a huge increase in QC issues. Who will buy them, and will they even exist in a few years?

jpx2rk · December 21, 2018, 07:52 PM

I have 3 FV12's, a 223, 204R & just got a 22/250. I use 'em for pdogs and punching paper. The 223 & 204R are completely stock except for the scope mounts & scope, shoot .5 to .75 moa with hand loads all day long. The 22/250 shot MOA with factory PPU 55g SP ammo on it's first trip to the range.

Nathan · December 21, 2018, 08:56 PM

My choice would be a Savage target model. Savage target models generally shoot very well, have a pivoting bolt and easily replaceable barrels. They also have a good selection of target triggers and their own accutrigger isn’t bad.

Ruger has decent triggers, generally a bad rep on barrels and use as cast bolt raceways(Hawkeye) if that matters to you. I do believe they have improved their rep with the American series and the precision rifle series.

rebs · December 23, 2018, 12:58 PM

Thanks for all the replies. I have pretty much decided on the Savage 12 FV from Cabela's

jpx2rk · December 24, 2018, 07:18 AM

Good choice, IMO. LOL Enjoy.

Don Fischer · December 24, 2018, 11:08 AM

Love this talk about shot out barrels on inexpensive gun's. Just what make's a barrel shot out n the first place? How do you recognize a shot out barrel? I've never shot out a barrel in my life. and of course if your a competitive or high volume shooter, what are you doing with an inexpensive rifle in the first place?

flashhole · December 24, 2018, 04:14 PM

Why bring practicality into the discussion?

I went with a Kimber Longmaster Classic in 223. It's a bit finicky about bullets but the ones it likes it shoots really well.

MarkCO · December 24, 2018, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Fischer

Love this talk about shot out barrels on inexpensive gun's. Just what make's a barrel shot out n the first place? How do you recognize a shot out barrel? I've never shot out a barrel in my life. and of course if your a competitive or high volume shooter, what are you doing with an inexpensive rifle in the first place?

Last question first, it is called practice. If you know the mechanical limitations of the rifle, you can get in cheaper practice than shooting out a premium barrel. Having shot out about 20 barrels, yeah, one can tell. Speed drops, groups open up. Have had it happen at a match more than once. Rebarreling one of my match rifles is $500 or more, in some cases up to $1K. So 90% of my practice gets done with less expensive rifles to preserve the life of the performance guns. I also don't mind letting new shooters shoot my practice rigs, but I don't let many people even touch my match rifles.

Of course, sometimes, it is just the throat and the barrel can be cut, set back and then rechambered if there is enough material. The .260 I shoot in matches has been cut and set back three times.

rebs · December 25, 2018, 07:58 AM

Thank you guys for all the information, I appreciate it

Longshot4 · December 27, 2018, 07:36 PM

Savage are not much to them and yes they are the ugliest of them all. Rugers are a little better for looks but not for mechanics. But a Remington 700 is only what you want it to be. First off its a good looker. Rich finish on the materials. Stocks well Remington has what ever type of stock that is needed. Show, field, bench, you name it. The 700 never has a funky Savage finish. Ruger has been generally a troubled sporter. Savage and Ruger need to go back to school and learn how to make a clip magazine. Try to get after market parts. I believe Remington 700 is the standard. Savage and Ruger are a cheep imitation. If you buy a Savage be care full not to cut your self on the sharp edges.

Note I own all three and Remington always has me admiring.

December 20, 2018, 09:54 AM	#1
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	looking to buy a new rifle ? Looking for a rifle in 223 for informal benchrest shooting between 100 and 300 yds. maybe a savage 12 fv from cabelas or a precision rifle in savage or rugar. Help me decide ?

December 20, 2018, 01:33 PM	#3
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	What's your budget? "...Savage or RugEr..." Six of this, half dozen of that. You can buy strictly on the price but try 'em both on for size if you can. Cabela's shows there is a decided difference in price between a 12 FV and the Ruger. A 20" .223 Ruger runs roughly a grand. $379.97(currently on sale) for a 12 FV, that is a varmint hunting rifle, not a target rifle. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

December 20, 2018, 02:46 PM	#4
MarkCO Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1998 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 4,308	If you want a disposable, meaning when you shoot out the barrel in say 8K rounds, you sell it and buy another, the Ruger American Predator with AR15 mags. $500ish. In the middle, maybe a Tikka T3 Varmint. If you want something more refined that will be about $500 to rebarrel, then a Bergara HMR-Pro. $1500ish __________________ Good Shooting, MarkCO www.CarbonArms.us

December 21, 2018, 08:32 AM	#7
taylorce1 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2005 Location: On the Santa Fe Trail Posts: 8,249	Winchester hasn't made a .223 for several years, and they had a 1:12 twist barrel better suited to 55 grain bullets or less. With the bullet options today I'd try and find a 1:8 twist rifle, the Ruger American rifles offer that. Savage and Remington use 1:9 twist which would my second choice. __________________ NRA Life Member

December 21, 2018, 12:20 PM	#12
MarkCO Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1998 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 4,308	Disposable is probably not the best term. Use, wash, sell...repeat. I am on my 2nd RAP in .243Win and I will likely sell it this spring. About 5K on the All weather RA in .223 I use as a trainer for new shooters. My first one, it cost me $75 to put 2K through it. Sold it to a guy who is going to shoot a box a year at Deer and Pronghorn. I have had three completely apart. One a RAP and the other a RA all weather and a RPR. What I found was consistent with what others who have trued up their RPRs. Bolt lugs and faces, some in the barrel locking lugs as well. I guess the nice thing is that they can really be squared up and polished up at home, if one wants to, since headspace is easy to reset. From a $ per round with decent accuracy, the Rugers are, for me, a great value. Even as a high volume shooter, I have to balance the time I spend reloading, shooting and working on guns. For me, it takes about 30 minutes of time to sell one and get another. So it is 1/3rd the time and cost to sell and replace as to true up and rebarrel. I'll use that time on my higher priced rifles though, and those are what I mostly shoot in matches. __________________ Good Shooting, MarkCO www.CarbonArms.us

December 20, 2018, 12:31 PM	#2
hounddog409 Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2015 Posts: 115	of those listed, I would recommend the Ruger. Always been a fan of Ruger, and own or have owned a bunch with out issue. I am not a fan of Savage, but this is not saying they are not good rifles. Actually a Ruger Precision is on my short list for next purchase.

December 21, 2018, 07:11 AM	#6
kilotanker22 Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2012 Location: North Central, PA Posts: 2,117	There are tons of excellent options in your category. I would venture to say that you couldnt go wrong with any option from Savage, Remington, Ruger, Winchester, Bergara,CZ or Tikka. The list goes on and on. My personal preferences lie with Savage, Winchester and Remington. Price wise Savage, Ruger and Remington all have similarly price budget lines. That all shoot sub 1 moa with some care. You will find far more after market parts and upgrades for a Savage 110 or Remington 700. Than probably any other make and models. My recommendation? Savage 110 tactical, Varmint. Or Remington 700 SPS Varmint, VTR or SPS Tactical.

December 21, 2018, 10:52 AM	#9
Sharkbite Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2013 Location: Western slope of Colorado Posts: 3,679	Id vote Ruger as well, but id opt for the Ruger Precision rifle Comes out of the box ready to go. Slap on some glass and get shooting. When you shoot out the barrel, its as easy to change as an AR.

December 21, 2018, 11:41 AM	#10
Don Fischer Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2017 Posts: 1,868	I've never owned a Savage CF rifle but of the two that's where I'd go. They didn't get that reputation for accuracy for nothing. I've had a couple Ruger 77's, older wood stock's. Beautiful rifle's that left a lot to be desired in the accuracy department. If I were looking into a 223 for target shooting it would be a 700 Remington. I've only even seen one Remington I couldn't make shoot, a mod 7 when they first came out. Never have another it was so bad. Have a 700 ADL I got as a gift years ago that shot about as bad as a rifle could. Pryed the stock off and completely rebedded it and found a 1/2" rifle. Today it has a wood stock! I have it stuck in my mind that if accurate is what you want you need a round action. Remington and I believe Savage have that. Look at the custom action's made for bench rest shooting, all are round actions. I think the deal is they are much easier to bed. Probably a bit stiffer too if that matter's. I have a 700 BDL long action I put one piece Leupold base on with the intention of stiffing up the action some. Don't know if it did but the rifle sure shoot's! I never tried bedding either of my Ruger's, that recoil lug has me stumped. Ruger mod 77, one of the most beautiful production rifles in my opinion but I'd never buy one looking for accuracy!

December 21, 2018, 01:22 PM	#15
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	The Savage would be my choice for a keeper. It has the acu trigger and that is a very good trigger, not quite a great one but good. The 12FV gets the varmint acu that goes down to 1.5 lbs. You can change the barrel easily and upgrade in the process. Bolt head floats so it has more up side in not needing to be blue printed to get accurate. Don't get me wrong, you want to shoot sub 1/4 MOA you will need a higher grade setup, but for varmint or target work its good. Boyds makes great drop in stocks, I like the laminates for looks and they are composite so they don't move. You will spend more on the scope than the rifle. __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not

December 21, 2018, 03:36 PM	#16
MarkCO Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1998 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 4,308	The reason I stay away from Savage is that it is up for sale by Vista, partly in an attempt to sanitize Vista from the scourge of selling guns. Every company that has taken that path has seen a huge increase in QC issues. Who will buy them, and will they even exist in a few years? __________________ Good Shooting, MarkCO www.CarbonArms.us

December 21, 2018, 07:52 PM	#17
jpx2rk Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2015 Posts: 387	I have 3 FV12's, a 223, 204R & just got a 22/250. I use 'em for pdogs and punching paper. The 223 & 204R are completely stock except for the scope mounts & scope, shoot .5 to .75 moa with hand loads all day long. The 22/250 shot MOA with factory PPU 55g SP ammo on it's first trip to the range.

December 21, 2018, 08:56 PM	#18
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,331	My choice would be a Savage target model. Savage target models generally shoot very well, have a pivoting bolt and easily replaceable barrels. They also have a good selection of target triggers and their own accutrigger isn’t bad. Ruger has decent triggers, generally a bad rep on barrels and use as cast bolt raceways(Hawkeye) if that matters to you. I do believe they have improved their rep with the American series and the precision rifle series.

December 23, 2018, 12:58 PM	#19
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	Thanks for all the replies. I have pretty much decided on the Savage 12 FV from Cabela's

December 24, 2018, 07:18 AM	#20
jpx2rk Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2015 Posts: 387	Good choice, IMO. LOL Enjoy.

December 24, 2018, 11:08 AM	#21
Don Fischer Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2017 Posts: 1,868	Love this talk about shot out barrels on inexpensive gun's. Just what make's a barrel shot out n the first place? How do you recognize a shot out barrel? I've never shot out a barrel in my life. and of course if your a competitive or high volume shooter, what are you doing with an inexpensive rifle in the first place?

December 24, 2018, 04:14 PM	#22
flashhole Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2005 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 2,000	Why bring practicality into the discussion? I went with a Kimber Longmaster Classic in 223. It's a bit finicky about bullets but the ones it likes it shoots really well. __________________ ,,, stupidity comes to some people very easily. 8/22/2017 my wife in a discussion about Liberals. Are you ready for civil war?

December 25, 2018, 07:58 AM	#24
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	Thank you guys for all the information, I appreciate it

December 27, 2018, 07:36 PM	#25
Longshot4 Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2014 Posts: 868	Savage are not much to them and yes they are the ugliest of them all. Rugers are a little better for looks but not for mechanics. But a Remington 700 is only what you want it to be. First off its a good looker. Rich finish on the materials. Stocks well Remington has what ever type of stock that is needed. Show, field, bench, you name it. The 700 never has a funky Savage finish. Ruger has been generally a troubled sporter. Savage and Ruger need to go back to school and learn how to make a clip magazine. Try to get after market parts. I believe Remington 700 is the standard. Savage and Ruger are a cheep imitation. If you buy a Savage be care full not to cut your self on the sharp edges. Note I own all three and Remington always has me admiring.