Hammer fired polymer guns, what's out there?

[DMK]

I just ordered a CZ P-07 this weekend and will hopefully get it in hand tomorrow or Wednesday. For those who don't know, it's a Glock 19 sized hammer fired polymer handgun. That's kind of an unusual configuration isn't it?

What other hammer fired polymer guns are out there? If you have one of any brand, how do you like it?

[TunnelRat]

Beretta PX4 various sizes
CZ P07/P09 (you mentioned already)
FN FNP/m
FN FNX
HK USP/c
HK P2000/sk
HK P30/sk/L
HK 45/c
IWI Jericho (polymer frame models)
Ruger P series
Ruger Security 9
SIG SP2009/2022/2340
SIG P250
Springfield XDe
STI (different models)
S&W 380 EZ
S&W Bodyguard 380
Walther PPX/Creed

Updated from follow on comments

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[PSP]

If you want a real jewel look for a HK USP Elite.

[Hammerhead]

Looks like a pretty complete list there.
The only CZ I owned was a plain CZ75B, but that was an all steel anchor. (good gun though)
Love my 1995 USP 45. Super reliable, accurate and soft shooting. Looks like a beast.
What I like most is that it shoots my SWC handloads so well.
Still have just the 2 original 10 round Klinton mags.

[jar]

Add the Star UltraStar:

Sig P2009 top; Star UltraStar below:

[Walt Sherrill]

The Star UltraStar is a great gun, but parts and magazines may be a problem. (That said, except for extractors, the Star guns have been very durable.)

Stars have been out of production for many years, and there weren't a lot of Star UltraStars produced, so Numrich and other used part suppliers will not have a big inventory.

[hammie]

Hammer fired and polymer: Smith & Wesson .380 EZ

This one is a good trivia question, because most people think the .380 EZ is striker fired.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by hammie

Hammer fired and polymer: Smith & Wesson .380 EZ



This one is a good trivia question, because most people think the .380 EZ is striker fired.

So is the Bodyguard 380.

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[gc70]

CZ clones & derivatives (EAA Witness Polymer, Rock Island MAPP, Sarsilmaz B/C/K series)
Rock River Poly 1911

[DMK]

Wow that's a bigger list than I thought.

How could I forget about the old Ruger P Series.

[Skans]

I like the Grand Power's come in 9mm, 40 and 10mm.

[Aguila Blanca]

Armscor (RIA) MAPP MS
Armscor (RIA) MAPP TCM9R
Armscor (RIA) MAPP FS
Browning 1911-380

[sigarms228]

I like HKs for hammer fired poly frame pistols. My SIG SP2022 is quite nice too.

I use my P30SK LEM for CCW occasionally and like that it can take 10 and 13 round magazines.

[Siggy-06]

EAA Witness Poly, S&W M&P 22 Compact, Ruger SR22.

[briandg]

I would prefer the longer pull of a DAO handgun to the striker fired.

The end of the process, no matter how many safeties that you have on a gun, is can you accidentally slide a finger into the guard and set the pistol off with a few ounces of pressure?

A DAO semiauto is no different than a DA revolver, which has no safety. Accidentally dragging that long trigger pull to the point that it fires is not simple. Can that be said about a glock?

There was a guy who shot himself in the nards with a glock while at home depot. Apparently his glock was sharing his underwear with the aforementioned niblets. I am having a real problem believing that it would have happened if he had been carrying a detective special.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by briandg

I would prefer the longer pull of a DAO handgun to the striker fired.

The end of the process, no matter how many safeties that you have on a gun, is can you accidentally slide a finger into the guard and set the pistol off with a few ounces of pressure?

A DAO semiauto is no different than a DA revolver, which has no safety. Accidentally dragging that long trigger pull to the point that it fires is not simple. Can that be said about a glock?

There was a guy who shot himself in the nards with a glock while at home depot. Apparently his glock was sharing his underwear with the aforementioned niblets. I am having a real problem believing that it would have happened if he had been carrying a detective special.

Right, but the real answer there is not allow garments into your trigger guard. That's what holsters are for. Are other designs more tolerant of this? Yeah I can agree with that. But if something manages to exert 5.5 lb on the face of the trigger (far more than a few ounces) then I feel the issue is more shooter error.

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[JDBerg]

https://www.rockriverarms.com/index....ategory_ID=133

This RRA Polymer 1911 is one you don’t hear about much but interesting nonetheless.

[DMK]

The end of the process, no matter how many safeties that you have on a gun, is can you accidentally slide a finger into the guard and set the pistol off with a few ounces of pressure?

A DAO semiauto is no different than a DA revolver, which has no safety. Accidentally dragging that long trigger pull to the point that it fires is not simple. Can that be said about a glock?

I'm not likely to get my finger in the trigger guard while holstering (always index it up as high as you can), but getting clothing, part of the holster or some foreign object in there is possible. Especially in a holster behind your hip where it's difficult to see.

Actually that is the main reason I bought my P07. I wanted a fully modern gun that allowed me the ability to push my thumb on the hammer as I holster it.

There are striker fired guns that allow you to do this where the striker protrudes out the rear when the trigger is pressed. There is also the Glock Striker Control Device rear end plate that allows you to do this.

[Forte S+W]

Many of the .380 pocket pistols are hammer-fired, the hammers are merely shrouded.

The best hammer-fired, polymer-framed pistols are the H&K USP series, which was originally designed for the USMC, but the Beretta PX4 series is also very good.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by DMK

Actually that is the main reason I bought my P07. I wanted a fully modern gun that allowed me the ability to push my thumb on the hammer as I holster it.

There are striker fired guns that allow you to do this where the striker protrudes out the rear when the trigger is pressed. There is also the Glock rear end plate that allows you to do this.

While I get the idea, regardless of the trigger system I am clearing my holster before I reholster. Assuming I did that, how is the firearm discharging itself? I get the concept of redundancy, I do, but I've holstered idk how many times now. There hasn't been a time where something magically appeared in my holster that allowed me to both holster the pistol normally (didn't get stuck in the holster and prevent the firearm from seating) and managed to get in my trigger guard to the point where it could apply 5.5-6 lb of pressure to discharge the pistol. I've even tried to intentionally cause this on pistols with snap caps loaded and I haven't had luck.

Most cases I have been able to find of firearms discharging when being holstered are people not actually removing their fingers when holstering (you may laugh but I know of multiple NDs that have been caused by this) or poor holster designs that folded in on themselves and into the trigger guard. A well designed kydex or leather holster won't allow that to happen. I have seen people holster and catch their own garments. I haven't seen an ND from it personally and the takeaway every time was to clear the holster (holstering isn't something to do in a rush).

Again, I get the principle. I carried DA/SA for some time, which is how I came up with that original list because I owned most of those. But I personally feel it is a choice to deal with a risk that with proper gun handling is relatively small (smaller than other risks I perceive).

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[corneileous]

Originally Posted by TunnelRat

Right, but the real answer there is not allow garments into your trigger guard. That's what holsters are for. Are other designs more tolerant of this? Yeah I can agree with that. But if something manages to exert 5.5 lb on the face of the trigger (far more than a few ounces) then I feel the issue is more shooter error.

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No doubt about it, it all falls down to shooter error but no amount of training will keep us from being human. That’s why all my guns at hammer-fired and why I kinda sorta gave my one and only striker-fired gun to my mom, because I didn’t like feeling like I had to rely on the slide-mounted safety to make it safer. That’s why I shifted from a Ruger LC9S to a Springfield XDE.


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[TheGunGeek]

Originally Posted by DMK

What other hammer fired polymer guns are out there?

The Beretta PX4 full and compact sizes are highly unappreciated DA/SA pistols. Ernest Langdon also offers a highly tweeked version.

I only use hammer fired DA/SA actions.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by corneileous

No doubt about it, it all falls down to shooter error but no amount of training will keep us from being human. That’s why all my guns at hammer-fired and why I kinda sorta gave my one and only striker-fired gun to my mom, because I didn’t like feeling like I had to rely on the slide-mounted safety to make it safer. That’s why I shifted from a Ruger LC9S to a Springfield XDE.


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No offense, but if you follow that logic through (that we're all likely to fail regardless of training) then with the rate of NDs in general compared to the likelihood of needing a firearm to defend yourself you wouldn't own or carry a firearm in the first place.

I'm well aware we're all human. I've had a ND. It was with a S&W 5903, a pistol with a DA pull, a manual safety, and even a magazine disconnect. How did it happen? I pressed a trigger on what I thought was a chamber with a snap cap. It wasn't. The pistol couldn't stop me from being negligent. My argument is clearing the holster is important regardless of trigger weight and that true garment caused NDs are less likely than people credit.

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[DMK]

... regardless of the trigger system I am clearing my holster before I reholster. Assuming I did that...

Assuming we always did everything right, we wouldn't need all 4 rules of gun safety. Just one or two of those rules would suffice.

While I get the idea, regardless of the trigger system I am clearing my holster before I reholster. Assuming I did that, how is the firearm discharging itself? I get the concept of redundancy, I do, but I've holstered idk how many times now. There hasn't been a time where something magically appeared in my holster that allowed me to both holster the pistol normally (didn't get stuck in the holster and prevent the firearm from seating) and managed to get in my trigger guard to the point where it could apply 5.5-6 lb of pressure to discharge the pistol.

I've never had an issue either. However nonetheless, it is a possibility and there are examples of proficient shooters having NDs due to something getting in the trigger guard.

I'm not going to stop holstering all my striker fired guns because of it, but I do feel better when I'm holstering a hammer fired gun.

It seems silly to argue about it because it's up to the end user as to what they personally feel comfortable with. Nobody is wrong here.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by DMK

Assuming we always did everything right, we wouldn't need all 4 rules of gun safety. Just one or two of those rules would suffice.

I've never had an issue either. However nonetheless, it is a possibility and there are examples of proficient shooters having NDs due to something getting in the trigger guard.

I'm not going to stop holstering all my striker fired guns because of it, but I do feel better when I'm holstering a hammer fired gun.

I get the concept of layered security. It's literally part of my job. But we already have layered security, such as the 4 laws. You can always add more layers. But at some point I question what is gained by those layers. Absolutely people have had NDs. What percentage of those that carry do have NDs? When you evaluate risk you evaluate the potential consequences and the probability of the event occuring. An ND can have a very negative consequence (I know from experience) so it should be weighted as such. But of NDs how many are from triggers snagging when being holstered? At what level have we properly addressed the risk? Should we go to empty chamber carry and be even safer? My guess is many here would balk at that, and I would too, but where people draw the line isn't a matter of absolute correctness.

And since this is a forum, I simply voice that question. As always, people do what they think is best for themselves and I wouldn't want them to do otherwise.

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