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Old October 8, 2019, 03:17 PM   #26
rock185
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I worked a large department, and later a much smaller one. Big or small department, there is some small percentage of officers who are "gun guys". Most officers just don't care about guns beyond mandatory training and qualifying, and would undoubtedly pick the lowest common denominator pistol. Now days, some kind of light polymer pistol, that holds a lot of ammunition, would be the pistol of choice for most IMHO.
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Old October 8, 2019, 04:10 PM   #27
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I would bet there are more G19's issued by LE agencies than M&P's.
I bet there are more Glocks, maybe not a particular model [caliber] as opposed to M&P9s.

I own both but I can't really give the edge to either as a service pistol, although the trigger on the original M&P leaves a lot to be desired. I'd say they are pretty evenly matched.
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Old October 8, 2019, 06:32 PM   #28
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I don't think the popularity of polymer semi-automatics is down to low-cost and politics. Almost everyone prefers them because of their low weight. Swap them out for three pound steel guns, and you will see nearly everyone complaining that they're better at nothing but anchoring boats.

Among the lightweight polymer pistols, Glock is a proven option. It's not the only viable option, but nobody ever got fired for buying Glock.

Now if you give beat cops an option, as you asked, their choices will vary based on how they are informed as individuals, on their personal biases, and on balancing their means and desires. When given a choice, the most popular alternative I see chosen is a custom 1911. Law enforcement around here are relatively highly paid. Annual compensation for a sargeant can be $200K/yr (including overtime and benefits). If they're a gun guy at all, they'll choose to drop $3K or $4K on a custom 1911 rather than carry the equivalent of a Bic lighter or pen. Over the course of their career, the expense for a high-end handgun is easily justified. Rookies in a big metro department are different. There's a good chance they're not even "gun people." They could possibly care less what they're issued. Even if they do have an opinion, how could they expect anyone else to care what it is?
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Old October 9, 2019, 08:31 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by dogtown tom View Post
Five whole grams?
Must be the longer barrel and slide making the G17 so much heavier than the M&P.

I would bet there are more G19's issued by LE agencies than M&P's.
Nope, the Glock is heavier cuz it is dosed with 'reliability'.....
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Old October 10, 2019, 03:56 AM   #30
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I don't think the popularity of polymer semi-automatics is down to low-cost and politics.
Actually, it is. Individual officers have little if any say in what the department buys. When Glock came on to the scene, Smith & Wesson was dealing with a multitude of problems that were affecting price and supply. Glock undercut everybody on price by a tremendous margin, and they were wiling to buy existing supplies (from other manufacturers!) of handguns from agencies.
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Old October 10, 2019, 07:04 AM   #31
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Actually, it is. Individual officers have little if any say in what the department buys. When Glock came on to the scene, Smith & Wesson was dealing with a multitude of problems that were affecting price and supply. Glock undercut everybody on price by a tremendous margin, and they were wiling to buy existing supplies (from other manufacturers!) of handguns from agencies.
That is because they understood their market. Law Enforcement Leadership is some of the most risk adverse leadership on the planet. They hate change. However present them with a deal to good to turn down and they will take it.

Once their foot was in the door with a proven platform the rest took care of itself. If "X" agency is using such equipment no issues than it certainly should be good enough for "Z".
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Old October 10, 2019, 07:57 AM   #32
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If all LEOs were allowed to carry whatever they wanted most would carry Glock, Sig, or Smith and Wesson, with a sprinkling of just about everything else scattered around. I would stick with Glock.
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Old October 12, 2019, 06:31 AM   #33
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My retired policeman friends are pretty much polar opposites.

The one who carried a Sig P226 would carry it by choice.

The one who carried an S&W 59XX wouldn't carry it or the Sig P226. He would carry a CZ-75.
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Old October 12, 2019, 11:38 AM   #34
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https://www.tactical-life.com/firear...lice-sidearms/

Link to a decent article which describes the handgun models and calibers carried by the largest U.S. metropolitan police departments.

My take on this is that most LEO’s would probably carry what is issued by their departments, rather than to purchase what they would prefer to carry, if they have that option.
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Old October 12, 2019, 05:02 PM   #35
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Several departments in my area allow uniformed officers to purchase and carry a weapon of their choice. (within limits)

I see Glocks, SIGS, Berettas, S&W, HK, etc. Mostly Glocks.

I haven't seen a 1911 on a uniformed officer in many years.
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Old October 15, 2019, 12:41 AM   #36
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Times have changed. When I started (1984) the old heads carried revolvers. .38. .357. .41, .44 and .45 LC.

Some guys carried berettas, Brownings and Smith Autos.

The cool kids and SWAT carried 1911’s.

You could tell a lot about the Officer by what he carried. Often, the gun said something about their personality.

Now? Most cops aren’t gun guys. I feel it’s even frowned upon. “Here’s your gun...”. “Ok, thanks.”

It’s just a tool you are expected to not actually use or enjoy. It’s part of the uniform. Look good while lip synching and playing mid night basketball.

The Glock is cheap. Requires minimal care, doesn’t rust, holds a bunch of bullets. It’s a dandy duty gun.

The modern cop didn’t grow up with steel, leather and wood.

I still carry a 1911 though.
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Old October 15, 2019, 04:34 AM   #37
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Officer.com was recently running a survey on what LEO's carry OFF DUTY. Results should be interesting once tallied.
Although I'm issued a S&W M&P 9mm at work, when off duty, most of my current carry guns have a cylinder. I have seen far too many semiauto's of various brands jam over the course of my lifetime to trust them as much as a well made revolver. There is a reason most agencies put so much emphasis on "tap and rack" training on the range... because the pistols JAM!!! Bad ammunition, magazine issues, limp wristing, lubricant / weather issues, what ever the reason, in my opinion the revolver is a more reliable weapon. I just shoot them better for some reason and they feel better in my hands. Of course, spare ammo is a must. Carry what you will, but for me the sixgun still rules.

Last edited by shurshot; October 15, 2019 at 12:00 PM.
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Old October 15, 2019, 07:02 AM   #38
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Carry what you will, but for me the sixgun still rules.
Peace of mind is the most important thing to carry.
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Old October 16, 2019, 09:44 AM   #39
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Unless it's something completely unreliable, inaccurate or not durable, I'd want to carry whatever the majority of the department carries. At very least what my partner (if I have one) or team mates would be carrying.

Realistically a gun is just a tool. You can train and adapt to use whatever you have available to you. You want commonality for spare ammo and magazine sharing. You want to take advantage of any and all existing training if available and the field experience of those senior to you. You want your department armorer to be familiar with your weapon. You want a legally defensible argument for your choice if you ever had to shoot someone. etc, etc.

Having a cool gun and looking cool is pretty stupid if you are giving up anything that could give you a real and actual advantage.

Last edited by DMK; October 16, 2019 at 09:53 AM.
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Old October 20, 2019, 02:27 PM   #40
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As far as the firearms you've listed go, the Ruger LC9 is going to be by far the cheapest, but just as well, it's also a very nice carry firearm which only weighs 17oz, holds 7 rounds in the magazine, (with factory 9 round extended magazines available) and is a good shooter.

The Ruger EC9s (which is just the "economy" version of the LC9s with fixed sights) retails for $249, but can often be found for $200, or even as low as $175 in used condition.

Otherwise, the M&P series often gets factory rebates around the holidays, and police trade-ins of the M&P40 1.0 show up periodically for $300 or less depending on their condition.

Another option is the less expensive S&W Sigma series of firearms, which have seen limited use by Law Enforcement, but have long since become a value priced firearm, so they're more of a civilian firearm these days. Still, they can be had for very cheap if you shop around. The modern iteration of the Sigma, known as the "SD series" can be had for as little as $300 new, often with $50 rebates, and used models go for around $250.
I myself actually bought a used LNiB Sigma SW40VE for $199 a few weeks ago. The Sigma series got a bad rep for the original 1994 SWF models being unreliable, but any of the later models made from 1999 onwards are fire, although they do have heavy 10-12lb DA triggers which some find objectionable. However, there are many ways to reduce the trigger pull if you find it too heavy. Personally, as someone who is used to heavy DA triggers, I have no issue with the Sigma's trigger.
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Old October 20, 2019, 03:41 PM   #41
chaim
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My question is if the cost and politics of a department buy weren't an issue, what gun would the beat cops pick?
I'm not a cop, but I think if it was up to personal preference, it would depend a lot on the individual officer, and you'd have a lot of different answers.

In my mind, it wouldn't be much different than selecting your CCW (of course, adding your cost not being an issue part) with a few differences. It needs to be reliable (#1) and accurate. Where it differs, no need to care about concealment. So, for me (if I were a cop in a department that will buy you whatever you want), a CZ 75B or 75BD would be high on my list since I shoot CZs very well. Add that they need to be common so your department armorers likely know the gun so you don't need to go outside (i.e. probably on your dime) for maintenance and repairs. So, replace the CZ for a SIG (probably 229) or M&P for me (I shoot my 1st gen M&P40c very well). I might go 1911, but personally, capacity would also be high on my list (so only double stack 9mm and .40S&W for me). I'd probably also add the Beretta 92 to my list (though I don't have much experience with one at this time, so with the disclaimer that I'd revisit if needed if I wasn't accurate enough with it). It would be nice if there was a compact version in order to essentially have a smaller version of the same gun for concealed off-duty carry (luckily, I'm fine with a service compact gun - CZ 75Compact/P01/PCR, SIG P229 sized gun - and all my list have such a compact version, heck, if I was a cop in a department that let you carry what you want, I might just go with the compact version, but full size mags for spare mags, to have the minimum transition).

Last edited by chaim; October 20, 2019 at 03:49 PM.
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