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Old November 15, 2019, 10:13 AM   #76
zukiphile
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buck460XVR
IMHO, a responsible owner is someone who obeys the law and shoots, hunts and stores their firearms in a safe and responsible way. When someone is next to me at the range, in the field or in the deer woods, I'm more concerned about how responsible they are with whatever firearm they have, than I am in how they feel about high capacity mags and AR type platforms.
It is laudable that a person who endorses restrictions on shooting not focused on hunting would handle his firearm safely. That's a facet of responsibility. However, we might agree that endorsing a constriction of the right where they think that constriction will not affect them immediately isn't responsible and lacks foresight; it's a bad behavior. A description of a bad behavior is unlikely to be complimentary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buck460XVR
Also, even tho they may not see a need for certain platforms/accessories, most would support them, if and when the time comes, that their choices are challenged.
That doesn't sound like what I understand "Fudd" to mean.

Quote:
A gun-owner who supports traditional hunting guns but favors gun control for other guns such as handguns or tactical rifles.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Fudd

For what it's worth, I don't see hunters as the only subgroup of shooters who misconstrue the right to be really only about their chosen activity.

If I proclaim that the 2d Am. protects my right to take my friends on a deer hunt with my bolt action rifle or a shotgun, but only criminals need handguns and a magazine with more than 10 rounds is evidence of poor marksmanship, it is difficult for me to foresee alienation or insult if someone describes me as a Fudd. How can accurate use be insulting?

If someone were to describe me as half blind, low speed, high drag, I imagine my response would be "Guilty".
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Old November 15, 2019, 10:52 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zukiphile
Isn't the point of the term fudd that the person isn't a responsible owner in that he irresponsibly endorses restrictions?

If an individual is alienated by an accurate description of his position, who is to blame for the alienation?
I respectfully submit that whether or not a gun owner endorses restrictions on firearms use or ownership that some other gun owners don't support is not a factor that defines whether or not that owner is a "responsible" firearms owner. Supporting restrictions that you or I don't support is a personal and political choice, but making a choice with which we disagree does not make the person "irresponsible." If you're going to go there, then in any presidential election year roughly half the population of the United States must be irresponsible, because they don't vote the way I voted.
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Old November 15, 2019, 11:23 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca
I respectfully submit that whether or not a gun owner endorses restrictions on firearms use or ownership that some other gun owners don't support is not a factor that defines whether or not that owner is a "responsible" firearms owner. Supporting restrictions that you or I don't support is a personal and political choice, but making a choice with which we disagree does not make the person "irresponsible."
Certainly. What makes a choice irresponsible isn't the disagreement of others, but the likelihood of a resulting harm. Where a subset of shooters militate for restriction of 2d Am. rights, they risk a harm.
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Old November 15, 2019, 12:23 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zukiphile
Certainly. What makes a choice irresponsible isn't the disagreement of others, but the likelihood of a resulting harm. Where a subset of shooters militate for restriction of 2d Am. rights, they risk a harm.
Again, that's a personal/political assessment. To us, they risk a harm. To them, they are advocating for what they perceive to be a potential benefit.
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Old November 15, 2019, 12:42 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca
Again, that's a personal/political assessment.
To note that a position or act reflects a personal or political assessment does not mean that it is merely a personal and political assessment. To militate for or endorse the restriction of 2d Am. rights courts a harm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca
To us, they risk a harm. To them, they are advocating for what they perceive to be a potential benefit.
That one who courts a harm denies that it is a harm doesn't make it responsible. To a drunk who maintains he can drive home safely, the benefit is that he gets to drive home. That doesn't make it responsible.

The advocate of restrictions on arms except as they relate to hunting sees the benefit of denying criminals pistols, a criminal tool, and poor marksmen and unbalanced individuals "high capacity" magazines with no legitimate use. That he sees a benefit doesn't distinguish him from any other advocate of a restriction of a civil right.

As we see from the English example, shrinking the zone of personal freedoms as they pertain to arms does also pose a harm to hunters.
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Old November 15, 2019, 01:50 PM   #81
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No right is absolute. Never has been, never will be. The question is where we draw the line on what is acceptable conduct and what is not.
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Old November 15, 2019, 02:20 PM   #82
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One in the tube. LOL. An idiot describing a round in the chamber. Even the, "tube", under the barrel that holds the shells, is called a magazine, not a tube.
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Old November 15, 2019, 04:20 PM   #83
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Quote:
When someone is next to me at the range, in the field or in the deer woods, I'm more concerned about how responsible they are with whatever firearm they have
And I bet they think the same of you...........hope you don't get offended if they do.
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Old November 15, 2019, 04:22 PM   #84
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One in the tube. LOL. An idiot describing a round in the chamber. Even the, "tube", under the barrel that holds the shells, is called a magazine, not a tube.
Oh, we aren't going down the caliber/cartridge, magazine/clip rabbit hole, are we?
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Old November 15, 2019, 05:36 PM   #85
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I find it heartwarming that my intentional use of Fudd has incited a philisophical debate on "responsibility". This debate shows that it is a matter of perspective.
Take for example assualt weapon "A pistol with a magazine NOT in the pistol grip' straight out of the California Law as originally passed. That would be a Broom Handle Mauser. It would also happen to be a Hammerli or Walther Olympic Pistol (it took several years for them to make an exception). It was intended for UZI's, Cobray's and MAC 9's amongst others. The irony is that the FUDD's didn't bother to step up for ANY fight back on this.

Some jargon has a reason for its existence.......some more well deserved than others.
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Old November 15, 2019, 11:50 PM   #86
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Quote:
Take for example assualt weapon "A pistol with a magazine NOT in the pistol grip'
Quote:
It was intended for UZI's, Cobray's and MAC 9's amongst others.
The irony is that the FUDD's didn't bother to step up for ANY fight back on this.
The real irony is that the Uzi, Cobray m11/9 and the Mac 9 /10 etc DO have a magazine that IS in the pistol grip.

The Tec-9 does not, like, as you noted the Mauser C-96 and some of the Olympic class target pistols.

While I understand the kind of attitude being referred to, I never got where the term "Fudd" comes from. In my life the first thing Fudd says to me is Elmer Fudd, the warner bros character, usually the hunter or farmer being foiled by Bugs Bunny and/or Daffy Duck. Never once did I ever see that character ever espouse any support for any kind of gun control.

Does it, perhaps come from "fuddy-duddy"? Meaning a stuffy opinionated person unconcerned with anything not part of their personal world?? That I could understand, but if so, I think they should have chosen something else, something not so closely associated with a buffoonish but beloved cartoon character.

There is a part of human nature that moves us to protect that which we care about and do little about that which we do not. I can understand this, I am that way about many things.

What I can't see is actively campaigning for or supporting anti-gun measures just because they aren't affecting your sport TODAY....

The dedicated golfer doesn't loose sleep over proposals to restrict or ban tennis racquets, but gets irate if they try to tell him he can only buy one club a month, PROVIDED he pass a background check EVERY time...
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Old November 16, 2019, 11:08 AM   #87
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Here is a photo of Viva Zapata being "dressed to the nines".

http://www.pinterest.com/pin/31922323567280211
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Old November 16, 2019, 01:38 PM   #88
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That link requires creating an account to view. Thanks, but not going there...
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Old November 16, 2019, 07:26 PM   #89
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Quote:
The real irony is that the Uzi, Cobray m11/9 and the Mac 9 /10 etc DO have a magazine that IS in the pistol grip.
Which is why the "LAW" is so full of B.S.


What does the 410 do well? Offend the BoATF&E. The Dupo rounds that are legal in any other guage are ILLEGAL in 410 SINCE that is also a pistol caliber. 410 "Armor Piercing" ammunition.
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Old November 17, 2019, 12:49 AM   #90
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Well, that's the way our govt works, Congress writes and passes a law defining and prohibiting "armor piercing handgun ammunition" and the BATFE decides that if anyone makes a handgun chambered for a round that round is "handgun ammunition". Following the letter, if not the spirit of the law.
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Old November 17, 2019, 12:50 PM   #91
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No laws exist making it illegal for a firearm or its ammo to kill someone.
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Old November 19, 2019, 10:48 PM   #92
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"Fire in the hole" "were going hot" "are you good" (OK)

this is how we did it back when I was with the "TEAMS"

what teams? rifle teams? shooting club? SWAT teams? SEAL TEAM?
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Old Yesterday, 07:15 AM   #93
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Powder Dump
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Old Yesterday, 08:20 PM   #94
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Ill admit I scanned through the 4 pages quickly, found many that made me literally laugh out loud (an instinctual, guttural laugh) not a LOL (comment frequently made for social media reasons). I did not see my pet peeve.

The one that "grinds my gears" is custom. If it is not made to my specification's or fitted for my rifle it is not custom made. It's simply manufacturing. At best improved manufacturing for an existing product.
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Old Today, 11:11 AM   #95
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what really torques my sense of dignity is "shotty" and "wheely".

My daughter used the word "shotty" ONE time to me. She soon learned better.
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Old Today, 02:21 PM   #96
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"Fire in the Hole!" is today used when events that cannot be altered are being set in motion.

It comes from mining / construction blasting when a hole was drilled in rock, and a charge of black powder (later dynamite) was inserted with a fuse. The warning cry "FIRE IN THE HOLE" was given when the fuse was lit. Fire from the fuse went into the hole and BOOM! Very logical.

"we're going hot"

Hot (and Cold) are widely used not just in firearms terms but also electrical terms and many other places. Hot (or Live) denotes active/operating/charged and therefore potentially dangerous.

These don't bother me. Really none of the terms (making sense or not) that were in use before and as I was growing up bothers me. What bothers me is current misuse or mis-definition of old terms and new made up terms used primarily for their "cuteness" effect.

There was one that bothered me in a thread a while back, one fellow identified the .257 Roberts as the ".257 Bob"
I don't care who you are, that's just barking wrong.

Wheely /Wheelie to me is standing a car or motorcycle on its back wheel(s).

"Shotty" is just cutesy stupid sounding.

"Bottom Feeder" is mechanically correct for many repeaters, and I find it amusing, though the first time I heard it, I wasn't sure if they were talking about a gun, a fish, or a lawyer...

I never knew that the 1911A1 had a "dust cover" until I read it on the internet. There is no such part identified in any of the manuals. Its just the FRAME. An M16 or AR-15 has a dust cover, identified in the manuals and on the parts lists, a 1911A1 pistol does not.

You can call your front sight a "muzzle reference indicator" but its still a front sight....
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