S&W Governor? Gimmick or Good Idea? - Page 3

kozak6 · January 17, 2017, 03:28 AM

I did a little googling.

It looks like Federal's 5 pellet 000 buckshot load is actually pretty impressive, and is probably the most suitable defense load. Seems like everything else patterns poorly and/or doesn't offer enough penetration. Some of it shockingly so.

But for the size, weight, and $700+ the Governor costs, you really have a lot of options.

Hal · January 17, 2017, 06:12 AM

Quote:

It looks like Federal's 5 pellet 000 buckshot load is actually pretty impressive, and is probably the most suitable defense load. Seems like everything else patterns poorly and/or doesn't offer enough penetration. Some of it shockingly so.

As someone in this thread already mentioned......that's not just true of the .410. It holds true for all of them, 28,20,16,12 and 10.
All the larger bores bring to the table are higher pellet counts.

jmr40 · January 17, 2017, 10:13 AM

Both the Taurus and S&W may be well made, but I can't think of any practical use for either gun. As a snake gun, if you see a snake it is simple enough to walk around it. No need to kill it, it's not like a predator that will attack. It is the snakes you don't see that get you.

A 410 shotgun with an 18" or longer barrel is a poor choice for SD. I can't imagine how poor the performance is from a 3-4" barrel.

The 45 colt chambering is a legit SD round. But who in the world would choose a 5 shot handgun as large and heavy as a brick. There are dozens of better options that hold more rounds of better loads in more accurate smaller packages.

Both are pure gimmick!

walks with gun · January 18, 2017, 11:14 AM

If I lived in a area where I was worried about carjackings, I could something like these could make a bad guy wet himself, otherwise the concept seems to be a waste of money.

ATN082268 · January 18, 2017, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmr40

A 410 shotgun with an 18" or longer barrel is a poor choice for SD.

As far as hauling around any long gun, I agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmr40

I can't imagine how poor the performance is from a 3-4" barrel.

Within 10 yards or so, you'd probably be as dead with a .410 round of OOO Buckshot round hit whether it came from a revolver or long gun.

Pond, James Pond · January 18, 2017, 12:56 PM

I've thought about this since this thread first came up and I think it boils down to the acceptance of the premise that guns can either be very focussed in purpose, excelling at that but falling short elsewhere, or having broader capabilities.

The broader that range of capabilities the weaker the competencies along it.

In this respect, I'd say that a gun like the Governor stretches that range a little too far for any of it's abilities to shine at all. Apart from being fun to shoot, I suppose.

fourbore · January 19, 2017, 07:53 AM

I already responded on the judge/governor. Another though that has been on my mind for a long while. I would love to see a similar loop hole, where we could purchase 600 special pistols and (I guess) revolvers, that were really intended for 20 gauge shells.

I would love to own a 20 gauge Encore pistol with 12 inch barrel. That is a real field gun. And if you think the Judge/nor is a gimmick imagine a 4 shot 20 gauge revolver! And, Legal, Howdahs or ball and shot doubles.

kozak6 · January 20, 2017, 12:25 AM

The loophole isn't so much that it can also fire some .45 rounds as much as that it's under .50 cal and has a rifled barrel, which keeps it from being a DD or AOW.

You know, for SHOT 2011, Taurus actually had a Raging Judge in 28 gauge.

28 gauge is .55 cal, which presented some legal and technical difficulties.

It was never seen again, so I think it was just a ploy to distract from the introduction of the Governor.

Bill DeShivs · January 20, 2017, 12:59 AM

There is no "loophole."

Bill DeShivs · January 20, 2017, 01:01 AM

Fourbore- You can get all of those things. It just requires a little more time and some tax money.

Glenn E. Meyer · January 20, 2017, 01:52 PM

Here's a quote from Greg Ellifritz on the polymer Judge:

Quote:

8) Taurus Polymer Public Defender .410– Really? This gun is considered a joke by all knowledgeable instructors. Making it out of plastic doesn’t improve anything.

Strafer Gott · January 20, 2017, 03:00 PM

So how many instructors have been shot with a Governor or Judge? How many died laughing? I really should allow Cheapshooter have a whack at this. Sorry, but I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only person that finds these statements preposterous! Have a nice day!

fourbore · January 20, 2017, 07:27 PM

Quote:

The loophole isn't so much that it can also fire some .45 rounds as much as that it's under .50 cal and has a rifled barrel, which keeps it from being a DD or AOW.

You know, for SHOT 2011, Taurus actually had a Raging Judge in 28 gauge.

28 gauge is .55 cal, which presented some legal and technical difficulties.

It was never seen again, so I think it was just a ploy to distract from the introduction of the Governor

Interesting post. Damn shame about the 28 gauge. One could hunt with that. Assuming a hunting barrel length.

The DD should not be a problem. There have been dozens of over 50 caliber cartridges granted an exception. New rounds not just historical: 550, 600ok, 700ne, 950 whatever.

If taurus was serious, I wonder if it could have been done. Maybe they needed a 550 caliber revolver first. With the appropriate ATF approval.

Here is one on you tube!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNfZ1Xo_B64

I found a pretty good write up. One reason or another, not to be.

http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/t...auge-revolver/

Here is a 600 nitro express handgun, I believe perfectly legal. Well over .50. In fact it might be close enough to handle a 20ga cylinder. Just for sake of argument. Not for practical. I am note sure about this one being imported. I think there are other over 50 pistols or revolvers exempted. SSK Industries made some big african nitro express Encore caliber barrels.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfeife...press_revolver

Cheapshooter · January 20, 2017, 10:13 PM

Quote:

So how many instructors have been shot with a Governor or Judge? How many died laughing? I really should allow Cheapshooter have a whack at this. Sorry, but I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only person that finds these statements preposterous! Have a nice day!

All yours! Why is it that these quotes always come from people who nobody has even heard of unless they are a certified Mall Ninja?

Targa · January 20, 2017, 10:27 PM

Well if instructors consider it a joke.....I better stop liking the things

.

Bongo Boy · January 22, 2017, 08:25 PM

Deleted

fourbore · February 1, 2017, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Fourbore- You can get all of those things. It just requires a little more time and some tax money.

Mossberg has a legal 14" barrel 12 gauge pump handgun, no federal permit or tax stamp:

http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=88

I really got to figure which forum to post this on. This is a surprise even to me. Now, I see. there is an over all 26" rule. Well interesting. I think I will post this here anyway.

Strafer Gott · February 1, 2017, 03:55 PM

Make certain of your dental coverage before you shoot 12 gauge pistols. My buddy lost a front tooth to a pistol grip Mossy. Issues with technique (operator error).
A gold front tooth does add character. Plain enamel is less expensive, but a commemorative tooth needs to be gold.
Not tongue in cheek either, lest you bite it off.

agtman · February 2, 2017, 07:41 AM

Quote:

fourbore * * * Another thought that has been on my mind for a long while. I would love to see a similar loop hole, where we could purchase 600 special pistols and (I guess) revolvers, that were really intended for 20 gauge shells. I would love to own a 20 gauge Encore pistol with 12 inch barrel. That is a real field gun. And if you think the Judge/nor is a gimmick imagine a 4 shot 20 gauge revolver! And, Legal, Howdahs or ball and shot doubles.

More interesting to me is the look of this one ....

.410/.45LC Howdah

No federal paperwork or bothersome $200 tax stamp required!

Although technically they're calling it a "Howdah" pistol, the set-up (with 10" tubes and especially the funky grip) is pure Ithaca Auto-Burglar (pre-NFA).

fourbore · February 2, 2017, 05:48 PM

I like the idea of a Howdah. I would be a buyer if it was a bigger bore. I would even be a buyer for a black powder ctg gun. Any howdah worthy caliber. I dont know the practical options for pedersoli. I could skip the whole shot shell option for a real howdah! I see 577 snyder brass is available. That would probably fit on a 20 ga frame.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categ...ASE-577-SNIDER

The 45 colt is not a howdah caliber. That is a nice looking gun.

Pedersoli sold a 20ga muzzle loader along that general idea. No restrictions on muzzle loaders.

http://www.cabelas.com/ensemble/Home...istol/6705.uts

fourbore · February 2, 2017, 06:00 PM

Here is a brass case that could be the basis for a smooth bore ball gun:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/86...rass-box-of-25

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Shotgun_R....aspx?CAT=3832

Now, if the chambers just happen to be cut 2 3/4 at the factory for customer safety, should the wrong ammo get accidentally loaded, who is to complain.

January 17, 2017, 10:13 AM	#53
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,805	Both the Taurus and S&W may be well made, but I can't think of any practical use for either gun. As a snake gun, if you see a snake it is simple enough to walk around it. No need to kill it, it's not like a predator that will attack. It is the snakes you don't see that get you. A 410 shotgun with an 18" or longer barrel is a poor choice for SD. I can't imagine how poor the performance is from a 3-4" barrel. The 45 colt chambering is a legit SD round. But who in the world would choose a 5 shot handgun as large and heavy as a brick. There are dozens of better options that hold more rounds of better loads in more accurate smaller packages. Both are pure gimmick! __________________ "If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong" Winston Churchill

January 18, 2017, 12:56 PM	#56
Pond, James Pond Senior Member Join Date: July 12, 2011 Location: Top of the Baltic stack Posts: 6,079	I've thought about this since this thread first came up and I think it boils down to the acceptance of the premise that guns can either be very focussed in purpose, excelling at that but falling short elsewhere, or having broader capabilities. The broader that range of capabilities the weaker the competencies along it. In this respect, I'd say that a gun like the Governor stretches that range a little too far for any of it's abilities to shine at all. Apart from being fun to shoot, I suppose. __________________ When the right to effective self-defence is denied, that right to self-defence which remains is essentially symbolic. Freedom: Please enjoy responsibly.

January 20, 2017, 12:59 AM	#59
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,981	There is no "loophole." __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

January 20, 2017, 01:01 AM	#60
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,981	Fourbore- You can get all of those things. It just requires a little more time and some tax money. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

January 20, 2017, 10:27 PM	#65
Targa Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2014 Posts: 2,084	Well if instructors consider it a joke.....I better stop liking the things.

January 17, 2017, 03:28 AM	#51
kozak6 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2005 Location: AZ Posts: 3,113	I did a little googling. It looks like Federal's 5 pellet 000 buckshot load is actually pretty impressive, and is probably the most suitable defense load. Seems like everything else patterns poorly and/or doesn't offer enough penetration. Some of it shockingly so. But for the size, weight, and $700+ the Governor costs, you really have a lot of options.

January 18, 2017, 11:14 AM	#54
walks with gun Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2014 Location: northern Mn. Posts: 271	If I lived in a area where I was worried about carjackings, I could something like these could make a bad guy wet himself, otherwise the concept seems to be a waste of money.

January 19, 2017, 07:53 AM	#57
fourbore Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2015 Location: new england Posts: 1,159	I already responded on the judge/governor. Another though that has been on my mind for a long while. I would love to see a similar loop hole, where we could purchase 600 special pistols and (I guess) revolvers, that were really intended for 20 gauge shells. I would love to own a 20 gauge Encore pistol with 12 inch barrel. That is a real field gun. And if you think the Judge/nor is a gimmick imagine a 4 shot 20 gauge revolver! And, Legal, Howdahs or ball and shot doubles.

January 20, 2017, 12:25 AM	#58
kozak6 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2005 Location: AZ Posts: 3,113	The loophole isn't so much that it can also fire some .45 rounds as much as that it's under .50 cal and has a rifled barrel, which keeps it from being a DD or AOW. You know, for SHOT 2011, Taurus actually had a Raging Judge in 28 gauge. 28 gauge is .55 cal, which presented some legal and technical difficulties. It was never seen again, so I think it was just a ploy to distract from the introduction of the Governor.

January 20, 2017, 03:00 PM	#62
Strafer Gott Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2011 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,315	So how many instructors have been shot with a Governor or Judge? How many died laughing? I really should allow Cheapshooter have a whack at this. Sorry, but I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only person that finds these statements preposterous! Have a nice day!

January 22, 2017, 08:25 PM	#66
Bongo Boy Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2008 Location: Colo Spgs CO Posts: 517	Deleted __________________ NRA Benefactor Member “If I had to live my life again, I'd make the same mistakes, only sooner.” T Bankhead "I think only the authorities should have weapons." The New American Electorate Last edited by Bongo Boy; January 23, 2017 at 09:37 AM.

February 1, 2017, 03:55 PM	#68
Strafer Gott Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2011 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,315	Make certain of your dental coverage before you shoot 12 gauge pistols. My buddy lost a front tooth to a pistol grip Mossy. Issues with technique (operator error). A gold front tooth does add character. Plain enamel is less expensive, but a commemorative tooth needs to be gold. Not tongue in cheek either, lest you bite it off.

February 2, 2017, 05:48 PM	#70
fourbore Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2015 Location: new england Posts: 1,159	I like the idea of a Howdah. I would be a buyer if it was a bigger bore. I would even be a buyer for a black powder ctg gun. Any howdah worthy caliber. I dont know the practical options for pedersoli. I could skip the whole shot shell option for a real howdah! I see 577 snyder brass is available. That would probably fit on a 20 ga frame. https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categ...ASE-577-SNIDER The 45 colt is not a howdah caliber. That is a nice looking gun. Pedersoli sold a 20ga muzzle loader along that general idea. No restrictions on muzzle loaders. http://www.cabelas.com/ensemble/Home...istol/6705.uts Last edited by fourbore; February 2, 2017 at 06:02 PM.

February 2, 2017, 06:00 PM	#71
fourbore Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2015 Location: new england Posts: 1,159	Here is a brass case that could be the basis for a smooth bore ball gun: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/86...rass-box-of-25 http://www.buffaloarms.com/Shotgun_R....aspx?CAT=3832 Now, if the chambers just happen to be cut 2 3/4 at the factory for customer safety, should the wrong ammo get accidentally loaded, who is to complain.