Double squib with 3.8 Gr 231 in 38 special - Page 2

HiBC · August 23, 2021, 05:27 PM

Sevens did a good job of addressing root cause.

I strongly agree,do not try a wood rod.

I really think you came up with a good idea in taking it to a gunsmith.

Generally,sooner rather than later. Anything you try that does not work makes the gunsmith's job harder.

Little hammers whacking upset the metal.The bullet peens or swages larger. gets stucker. It may be possible to even form a ring in the barrel by battering those bullets bigger.

If I was using a hammer,I'd want less speed and more momentum.

However...these are light framed guns.How you fixture or dolly them up might be real important. How will the force be absorbed by the frame?

No disrespect intended,but impact to the cylinder/crane would be bad.

Most folks don't even have a serious,well mounted vise.

I also agree with your hunch that drilling them out would likely be a disaster.

Yes,someone with the experience and tools and confidence could probably get that done.

I think,myself I'd go to the mill and make a block of aluminum to fit inside the frame and provide secure support . The breech end of the barrel would dolly on it. And,'d need a 3/8 clearance hole for the punch

A local hobby shop or Ace Hardware may stock 12 inch lengths of brass telescope tubing. Its 1/64 in wall. I'd get a piece of 11/32 I think. .343 OD and 5/16 ID. I'm sure I have a near new long series 5/16 quality drift punch in my tool box. Is hard steel,with a ground smooth diameter. That brass tube will line the barrel/sleeve over the punch.

I'd very carefully check the punch for nicks,burrs,etc. Dress the end square.

Blue painters tape might protect the finish. my trusty 32 oz Plumb ball pein might just bump them into moving.

pfan · August 24, 2021, 08:49 AM

Any revolversmith recommedations?

I tried to post on the smithy forum, got blocked by admin. said it was a dup

Im in the NE, but would be willing to ship

**4V50 Gary** · August 24, 2021, 09:14 AM

What UncleNick suggested. I have a 3/8" brass rod.

**Unclenick** · August 24, 2021, 09:52 AM

Check the American Pistolsmith's Guild.

Double-posts are against the forum rules because they cause duplication of effort that wastes member's time and board bandwidth and storage space. What I can do is I will move this thread to the Gunsmithing forum and leave a re-direct from the handloading forum. That way can solicit input from members who only go to one forum or the other. There are not many who don't check both, though.

pfan · August 24, 2021, 09:59 AM

Thank you! thats fine appreciate it!

Radny97 · August 24, 2021, 11:48 PM

I’m sure I’ll get roasted for this. But I’ve seen more squibs with 231 and plated bullets than all others combined. I don’t know what it is about the combination but sometimes there are ignition problems with 231 and plated bullets. Not saying that’s for certain what happened here. Could have been any number of things. But it’s something to be aware of.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

stagpanther · August 25, 2021, 05:48 AM

An alternative suggestion--I believe it also possible to loose pressure from a bullet not seated well to the case or doesn't headspace correctly upon chambering, I've cycled a couple cartridges where the bullet stayed stuck forward of the chamber and the case came out spilling powder. I think the comment about copper causing additional friction which enhances the probability of a squib is right on--especially if the bore is already conditioned to the use of cast bullets. I recently experienced this with the new solid-copper 22 lr bullets where the max charge cartridge I was testing was the one that squibbed, I believe it was an additive friction thing as each successive shot was fired.

WESHOOT2 · August 27, 2021, 04:37 AM

If unable to bash them out (use a bigger hammer) contact
Accurate Plating & Weaponry | Gunsmith In Newville, Alabama https://apwcogan.com

WESHOOT2 · August 27, 2021, 04:38 AM

...then use 4.2g W231 under that 158g...

Scorch · August 27, 2021, 03:11 PM

I take squib bullets out all the time. Once you get 2 or more in the barrel, the game shanges. I have taken out up to 7 bullets out of a barrel. Just whacking it with a hammer and brass rod will just make it worse.

WESHOOT2 · August 27, 2021, 03:19 PM

I've used sized wooden dowels and a 3lb sledge.

(I have personally never made a squib cartridge; bad juju).

WESHOOT2 · August 27, 2021, 03:21 PM

Quote:

I take squib bullets out all the time

I've heard this is common from numerous pros. What is happening out there?

Scorch · August 27, 2021, 03:56 PM

Quote:

I've heard this is common from numerous pros. What is happening out there?

Say there are 100,000,000 shooters, 1% make a mistake once a year. That's 1,000,000 squibs per year. That's a lot. But not, because it's only 1% of all users. The real numbers are different, but you get the idea.

pfan · September 1, 2021, 09:44 AM

I have been successful with drilling through and using a long brass wood screw, to pull them out.

Worked so far, I believe I have 2 in there still.

I assume thats what you were thinking?

JB in SC · September 1, 2021, 11:47 AM

There was an article quite a few years ago in Handloader that cautioned using anything but heavy loads for 158 grain jacketed bullets. Bullets stuck in bore was the reasoning. I've used lead bullets swaged and cast since the 70's and the only bullet I've ever stuck in a bore was a 185 grain jacketed bullet target load in .45 Auto Rim in a Model 25 S&W. Lead has more lubricity than copper.

Using a screw to pull the bullet out is the best solution. I've seen that done by my old gunsmith years ago, as well as drilling a hole in the bullet using a lathe with the gun mounted in a machinist vise. The bullet will collapse and allow it to be removed with relative ease.

pfan · September 9, 2021, 09:23 AM

I found brass wood screws worked perfectly, just took a bit of twisting and they popped right out. Let soak for a few days with Hoppes and ATF fluid.

Jim Watson · September 9, 2021, 10:16 AM

That's good.
What does the barrel look like inside? What does it feel like if you run a tight patch through?

August 24, 2021, 09:14 AM	#28
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,838	What UncleNick suggested. I have a 3/8" brass rod. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

August 24, 2021, 09:52 AM	#29
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Check the American Pistolsmith's Guild. Double-posts are against the forum rules because they cause duplication of effort that wastes member's time and board bandwidth and storage space. What I can do is I will move this thread to the Gunsmithing forum and leave a re-direct from the handloading forum. That way can solicit input from members who only go to one forum or the other. There are not many who don't check both, though. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

August 25, 2021, 05:48 AM	#32
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 11,786	An alternative suggestion--I believe it also possible to loose pressure from a bullet not seated well to the case or doesn't headspace correctly upon chambering, I've cycled a couple cartridges where the bullet stayed stuck forward of the chamber and the case came out spilling powder. I think the comment about copper causing additional friction which enhances the probability of a squib is right on--especially if the bore is already conditioned to the use of cast bullets. I recently experienced this with the new solid-copper 22 lr bullets where the max charge cartridge I was testing was the one that squibbed, I believe it was an additive friction thing as each successive shot was fired. __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!*

August 27, 2021, 04:37 AM	#33
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	If unable to bash them out (use a bigger hammer) contact Accurate Plating & Weaponry \| Gunsmith In Newville, Alabama https://apwcogan.com __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

August 27, 2021, 04:38 AM	#34
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	...then use 4.2g W231 under that 158g... __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

August 23, 2021, 05:27 PM	#26
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,286	Sevens did a good job of addressing root cause. I strongly agree,do not try a wood rod. I really think you came up with a good idea in taking it to a gunsmith. Generally,sooner rather than later. Anything you try that does not work makes the gunsmith's job harder. Little hammers whacking upset the metal.The bullet peens or swages larger. gets stucker. It may be possible to even form a ring in the barrel by battering those bullets bigger. If I was using a hammer,I'd want less speed and more momentum. However...these are light framed guns.How you fixture or dolly them up might be real important. How will the force be absorbed by the frame? No disrespect intended,but impact to the cylinder/crane would be bad. Most folks don't even have a serious,well mounted vise. I also agree with your hunch that drilling them out would likely be a disaster. Yes,someone with the experience and tools and confidence could probably get that done. I think,myself I'd go to the mill and make a block of aluminum to fit inside the frame and provide secure support . The breech end of the barrel would dolly on it. And,'d need a 3/8 clearance hole for the punch A local hobby shop or Ace Hardware may stock 12 inch lengths of brass telescope tubing. Its 1/64 in wall. I'd get a piece of 11/32 I think. .343 OD and 5/16 ID. I'm sure I have a near new long series 5/16 quality drift punch in my tool box. Is hard steel,with a ground smooth diameter. That brass tube will line the barrel/sleeve over the punch. I'd very carefully check the punch for nicks,burrs,etc. Dress the end square. Blue painters tape might protect the finish. my trusty 32 oz Plumb ball pein might just bump them into moving.

August 24, 2021, 08:49 AM	#27
pfan Junior Member Join Date: August 23, 2021 Posts: 12	Any revolversmith recommedations? I tried to post on the smithy forum, got blocked by admin. said it was a dup Im in the NE, but would be willing to ship

August 24, 2021, 09:59 AM	#30
pfan Junior Member Join Date: August 23, 2021 Posts: 12	Thank you! thats fine appreciate it!

August 24, 2021, 11:48 PM	#31
Radny97 Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2015 Posts: 1,021	I’m sure I’ll get roasted for this. But I’ve seen more squibs with 231 and plated bullets than all others combined. I don’t know what it is about the combination but sometimes there are ignition problems with 231 and plated bullets. Not saying that’s for certain what happened here. Could have been any number of things. But it’s something to be aware of. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

August 27, 2021, 03:11 PM	#35
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	I take squib bullets out all the time. Once you get 2 or more in the barrel, the game shanges. I have taken out up to 7 bullets out of a barrel. Just whacking it with a hammer and brass rod will just make it worse. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

August 27, 2021, 03:19 PM	#36
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	I've used sized wooden dowels and a 3lb sledge. (I have personally never made a squib cartridge; bad juju). __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

September 1, 2021, 09:44 AM	#39
pfan Junior Member Join Date: August 23, 2021 Posts: 12	I have been successful with drilling through and using a long brass wood screw, to pull them out. Worked so far, I believe I have 2 in there still. I assume thats what you were thinking?

September 1, 2021, 11:47 AM	#40
JB in SC Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2000 Location: Upstate Posts: 375	There was an article quite a few years ago in Handloader that cautioned using anything but heavy loads for 158 grain jacketed bullets. Bullets stuck in bore was the reasoning. I've used lead bullets swaged and cast since the 70's and the only bullet I've ever stuck in a bore was a 185 grain jacketed bullet target load in .45 Auto Rim in a Model 25 S&W. Lead has more lubricity than copper. Using a screw to pull the bullet out is the best solution. I've seen that done by my old gunsmith years ago, as well as drilling a hole in the bullet using a lathe with the gun mounted in a machinist vise. The bullet will collapse and allow it to be removed with relative ease. __________________ "We have seen the enemy and he is us", Pogo

September 9, 2021, 09:23 AM	#41
pfan Junior Member Join Date: August 23, 2021 Posts: 12	I found brass wood screws worked perfectly, just took a bit of twisting and they popped right out. Let soak for a few days with Hoppes and ATF fluid.

September 9, 2021, 10:16 AM	#42
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	That's good. What does the barrel look like inside? What does it feel like if you run a tight patch through?