progressive problems

[Shadow9mm]

Ok, so I managed to get my hands on a Hornady Lock-N-Load AP Progressive Press. Got everything set up tonight and went to make a batch. Now I am just tired and frustrated.

Powder is going everywhere on my lever pulls, no matter how careful I am. The powder is gumming up the works something fierce. The main problem is when it gets into the primer slider and it can't bring the primer all the way under the shell plate. It's also a pain when it gets in around the rim and the casing does not want to go under the resize die straight. Using N340.

Had one other major malfunction tonight, My Hornady seating die had the collet and seating stem pulled out of the bottom of the die, twice. putting a taper crimp on to hold plated bullets and take out the case mouth flare. never did this in my rock chucker.

Also, I found that EVERYTHING runs better without the sizing die in. It adds a ton of resistance. Have the lee factory carbide. Toying with the idea of resizing before putting them in the press...

Also, I had to run a bunch of bullets back through the seating/crimp die to redo the taper crimp as they would not drop in my EGW Cartridge gauge. probably half of the 130 or so that I loaded. I'm guessing I was short stroking the ram? This seems to take a LOT more leverage than my rock chucker.

Any tips, tricks or vids I can watch would be much appreciated. I watched a bunch of setup, assembly, and running vids, non seemed to show these problems...

[hounddawg]

From a former LnL owner, call 1-800-338-3220 for Hornady CS. Your experience sounds similar to what I went through for the first couple of uses. Then I called Hornady, the CS there spent over an hour talking me through my issues. My original issue was the timing adjustment. That led to powder spilling which caused the other problems. The icing on the cake was he mailed me a padded envelope of spare parts and springs free of charge.

It is a complicated machine. I was a Navy nuke, then spent another 20 years working in industrial maintenance and it still kicked my ass my first couple of tries. Then I swallowed my pride and the CS guy got me on the righttrack. Afterwards I probably loaded 35K or more pistol and rifle with only the occasional hiccup. One cold winter week I loaded several thousand pistol rounds out of boredom. Most of my problems once the initial adjustment was corrected were due with the primer feed slide sticking due to a flake of powder jamming it up will leed to a myriad of other issues if the powder is not cleaned up immediately.

First rule of LnL AP usage is keep it clean, second rule is keep it clean, 3rd rule is obey the first two rules. A spray can of electronic contact cleaner available at any hardware store needs to sitting next to the press along with a hand vacuum. Clean it before every use and between primer tube loadings and it will perform fine.

Seriously just call Hornady, once you get it tuned and the dies adjusted you will love it. Only reason I sold mine was the wife's back issues stopped her from IDPA competition, I do precision rifle and it was just taking up bench space.

[AVirginian]

I have a LNL AP too and there is a learning curve. As HD said, call Hornady, they are a very helpful.

Another thing I would suggest is try one thing at a time until you get each stage dialed in.
1 - size and deprime - if you're cases aren't clean, that too can jam the primer slide.
2 - primer - cleanliness is paramount here
3 - flare - not too much but just enough for a bullet to sit on top of a case.
4 - powder drop - be sure you have all the correct pieces installed for the caliber you're loading, if not it can spill powder everywhere, I know this from experience.
5 - seating - flared properly a bullet should seat easily.
6 - crimp - I seat and crimp with one die but many like the Lee Factory Crimp dies

Another beauty of the LNL AP is that if you do one thing at a time, you aren't changing the dies you removed, once they are set correctly.

[Nathan]

@Shadow9mm....I’m sorry to hear about your struggles. I have 25 years on this system...maybe I can help.

I assume this is a newer press. The std or the Ammoplant?

Where is the powder coming from? This is key. Is is coming out from between the cylinder and the measure? Enforcer can do that....or from the drop tube area? ...or another location?

Are you expanding when you charge or the std pistol adapter?

[HiBC]

If the drop tube is upside down you will have powder problems.

[Shadow9mm]

Originally Posted by hounddawg

From a former LnL owner, call 1-800-338-3220 for Hornady CS. Your experience sounds similar to what I went through for the first couple of uses. Then I called Hornady, the CS there spent over an hour talking me through my issues. My original issue was the timing adjustment. That led to powder spilling which caused the other problems. The icing on the cake was he mailed me a padded envelope of spare parts and springs free of charge.

It is a complicated machine. I was a Navy nuke, then spent another 20 years working in industrial maintenance and it still kicked my ass my first couple of tries. Then I swallowed my pride and the CS guy got me on the righttrack. Afterwards I probably loaded 35K or more pistol and rifle with only the occasional hiccup. One cold winter week I loaded several thousand pistol rounds out of boredom. Most of my problems once the initial adjustment was corrected were due with the primer feed slide sticking due to a flake of powder jamming it up will leed to a myriad of other issues if the powder is not cleaned up immediately.

First rule of LnL AP usage is keep it clean, second rule is keep it clean, 3rd rule is obey the first two rules. A spray can of electronic contact cleaner available at any hardware store needs to sitting next to the press along with a hand vacuum. Clean it before every use and between primer tube loadings and it will perform fine.

Seriously just call Hornady, once you get it tuned and the dies adjusted you will love it. Only reason I sold mine was the wife's back issues stopped her from IDPA competition, I do precision rifle and it was just taking up bench space.

1 Keep it clean, 2 keep it clean, and and follow rules 1 and 2, got it. I would like to try a few things before I contact Hornady though. I know they are busy as it is.

[Shadow9mm]

Originally Posted by AVirginian

I have a LNL AP too and there is a learning curve. As HD said, call Hornady, they are a very helpful.

Another thing I would suggest is try one thing at a time until you get each stage dialed in.
1 - size and deprime - if you're cases aren't clean, that too can jam the primer slide.
2 - primer - cleanliness is paramount here
3 - flare - not too much but just enough for a bullet to sit on top of a case.
4 - powder drop - be sure you have all the correct pieces installed for the caliber you're loading, if not it can spill powder everywhere, I know this from experience.
5 - seating - flared properly a bullet should seat easily.
6 - crimp - I seat and crimp with one die but many like the Lee Factory Crimp dies

Another beauty of the LNL AP is that if you do one thing at a time, you aren't changing the dies you removed, once they are set correctly.

1-brass is wet tumbled, looks like new.
2- yeah I figured that out, its a press stopper
3-using a lyman M-die. expands the body a tiny bit with minimal flare
4- for 9mm i am using the long one, its the only one htat would work with teh 9mm casings
5-the bullets fit in well and snug, not sloppy
6- I seat and crimp in the same die. I have a lee factory crimp on backorder. problem is with my powder cop die I don't have enough slots

yes, I really like that i can just plug-n-play and not mess my setting up

[Shadow9mm]

Originally Posted by Nathan

@Shadow9mm....I’m sorry to hear about your struggles. I have 25 years on this system...maybe I can help.

I assume this is a newer press. The std or the Ammoplant?

Where is the powder coming from? This is key. Is is coming out from between the cylinder and the measure? Enforcer can do that....or from the drop tube area? ...or another location?

Are you expanding when you charge or the std pistol adapter?

press is the standard press

the powder is N340. kind of a stick powder. I have minimal issues as it is going in and out of the powder measure. The main problem seems to be as it is coming down, the seating/crimp and resize are tugging a bit and releasing unevenly and I lose a few granules. Most of the granules are lost when the filled casing is advanced from the powder measure to the powder cop die then the seating station.

I am expanding before the powder measure. with a die similar to the lyman m-type (a similar die in an insert format for the lee universal expander from NOE bullet moulds)

[Shadow9mm]

Originally Posted by HiBC

If the drop tube is upside down you will have powder problems.

based on what I saw in the manual and vids the long flare goes up, and the short flare goes down to push on the case mouth, correct?

[AVirginian]

Originally Posted by Shadow9mm

based on what I saw in the manual and vids the long flare goes up, and the short flare goes down to push on the case mouth, correct?

You are correct.

With "stick" type powders they can drop a bit slower than ball powders due some bridging in the drop tube.
Does it seem to be spilling as the case is lowered from the powder drop or when the shell plate rotates?

How full is the case?

[Shadow9mm]

Originally Posted by AVirginian

You are correct.

With "stick" type powders they can drop a bit slower than ball powders due some bridging in the drop tube.
Does it seem to be spilling as the case is lowered from the powder drop or when the shell plate rotates?

How full is the case?

I will need to run again to look more closely to make sure, but from what I observed the powder was dropping into the casing ok. However the powder was shaking out on the downstroke if the resize was slightly sticky or the crimp did not want to let go. Also it was shaking out as the shell plate rotated.

The shell case is fairly full, just enough room for the bullet to seat, maybe 1/4, but that is an estimate. I will post a pic of case fill next time I run it, hopefully tomorrow.

[Unclenick]

Yes, you can get a withdrawal "hop" of the powder in the case with your pin-cleaned brass. People don't realize the carbon that builds up inside cases actually helps lube them. A simple thing to try is putting a bunch of cases in a large ziplock bag with some motor mica or graphite and just shaking or rolling the brass around in the bag until it is distributed. Another thing I've heard of but haven't tried myself is, after pouring your cleaning solution off and separating the brass from the pins, dip them in some car washing and waxing solution and then a rinse bucket before drying. If you get a carnauba wax type car wash-and-wax product, that should get you both some tarnish protection and a little surface lube.

[Shadow9mm]

Originally Posted by Unclenick

Yes, you can get a withdrawal "hop" of the powder in the case with your pin-cleaned brass. People don't realize the carbon that builds up inside cases actually helps lube them. A simple thing to try is putting a bunch of cases in a large ziplock bag with some motor mica or graphite and just shaking or rolling the brass around in the bag until it is distributed. Another thing I've heard of but haven't tried myself is, after pouring your cleaning solution off and separating the brass from the pins, dip them in some car washing and waxing solution and then a rinse bucket before drying. If you get a carnauba wax type car wash-and-wax product, that should get you both some tarnish protection and a little surface lube.

I have heard of several people using car wash/wax in their wet tumbler in place of dish soap. My concern was it interacting with the powder. Time to do some research.

[sevt_chevelle]

Redding Pro expander..Problem solved
Titanium carbide coated

I wet tumble with car wax no issues, I also use One Shot and lube my brass.
My 650 runs flawless.

[Unclenick]

I thought of the Redding Premium expander (have one sitting on my desk that just arrived for 32 S&W Long and H&R Mag), but it's not a powder-through die, which he will need for the Hornady measure.

The reason the hard carnauba wax doesn't mess with powder is its melting point high enough that, unless you let the ammo get too hot to touch, it remains solid and won't contaminate anything. Also, the film is super thin, so even if it liquefied it couldn't affect very much powder. Some of the newer polymer waxes may work well, too. I just don't know their properties.

[Shadow9mm]

ok, will be wash a test batch tomorrow with car wash'n wax tomorrow and get the progressive running again tomorrow to test. Hopefully that will help. For rifle, It is getting resized and rock chucker then washed again to get the case lube off, so that should be nice n easy for the progressive to deal with.

[HiBC]

You might anti-static your powder measure hopper,too.
Static cling can be a thing

[jetinteriorguy]

I took a Dremel with a polishing wheel and jewelers red rouge and polished all of my Lee powder through dies and it eliminated about 75% of the cases sticking causing powder to fall out of the cases. Another thing that helps is using brass that’s the same length, this way you can adjust the die for just a minimal amount needed to start bullets but not so much that they stick when longer ones stick due to dies adjusted low enough to work with shorter cases.

[Shadow9mm]

I did polish up the powder inserts yesterday. Did not have a lot to work with, so I put some JB bore compound in the unit and ran it back and forth a bit, kind of like lapping...,then cleaned it up. seemed to help a good bit. I am using the over the top funnel, not the expender insert though, so while there is some friction in the unit, no sticking of an expander.

In my short run today I did learn some things
1- the case flare die is minimal in resistance and not causing any problems
2- my charge weight somehow went up, without me adjusting the dial, now I gotta pull some bullets and take samples to see if some are over charged
3-the powder measure is not the problem with spilled powder
4- the powder is jumping out at is rotates stations and the detents click into place
5- the shell plates do not want to stay locked in, that wobble was also causing some issues, will order the hornady wrench to get some more leverage when I can find one.
5(a)- I read somewhere that the retaining spring can cause issues due to vibrations and replacing with an o-ring might dampen some of the vibration. got some on order, going to give it a try.

And for now, I am done with 9mm. I got yet another casing stuck in the crimp section of my seat/crimp die... and I will need to order parts to get it running again.

[Shadow9mm]

And I switched over to 223 with CFE223 (ball powder).... well... I now have to opposite problem. It is chucking powder everywhere from the funnel after the drop. However the powder is staying in the casing. This is a royal pain... Going to degrease then entire powder hopper again, but I suspect its static.... grrr

[Nathan]

It sounds like powder is hanging up in the die or dispenser.

In my system, I had to clean everything with a degreaser. Then alcohol to get it fully dry. The o ring on the rotor needed wiped down with something slick. I think I rubbed just the o ring with wax on a cloth. Then to control static, I had to rub down the interior and exterior with dryer sheets. These do a good job with static.

Then after reassembly, I ran graphite through it. That is key to get it completely dry, but with some lubrication.

[reddog81]

Use a lock washer in addition to the washer provided for the shell plate. The lock washer will help prevent the shell plate from loosening.

Too clean of brass is a real problem. A little carbon fouling helps make sizing easier. Unless the brass is caked in crud, hot water cleans the brass sufficiently. I also use Hornady One Shot case lube to make the whole process smoother. I've purchased once fired brass that was cleaned to a shine and it caused issues with sizing and expanding.

Adjusting the pawls to get the detents to line up correctly is critical. The only time I've had powder spill is if the shell plate gets out of line and the brass is not lining up with the powder funnel.

[Shadow9mm]

Si I got it apart and cleaned again. I generally use brake parts cleaner as it dries and does not leave a residue. Here was the before. I suspect the powder falling out was from the powder getting jarred loose from inside the funnel. Will hit it with drier sheets and gonna give it another go.

Here was the inside of the funnels.

[Shadow9mm]

so 223 powder issue fixed. The stuck powder was getting jarred loose my the movement of the press and falling out after the casing came down and was advancing. I did a thorough degrease again, doused everything in brake cleaner, and the powder is not sticking in the funnel anymore, and none appears to be falling out onto the shell plate....

Contacted Hornaday,t hey were very helpful with some questions I had but not helpful in other ways.

In regards to my hornady seat/crimp die. They did try to trouble shoot but I was not satisfied with the results. They basically said it is probably the brass. some could be thicker or too long and be catching in the sizing die. Or brass could be built up in the die causing it to bind. They recommended I clean the crimp portion of the die and keep an eye out for brass that stick and avoid those head stamps.... thye did offer to send me more retaining clips, but wanted to see if cleaning would help first so they did not have to send 2 packages. Not much help since all my retaining clips are broken making the die inoperable. I ordered more myself from midway.....

I told them I had been resizing separately and using a case gauge to check the brass prior to putting it inthe press so it should all be within spec, they said it was probably still the brass.

Gonna try and polish the die up a bit, and I have a Lee factory crimp die on order.

In regards to powder jumping out of the casings. they said it was due to the detents snapping in and that was just the way the press was and there was nothing to be done about it.

My plan is to remove the powder cop die and do a seat, then the lee factory crimp die so the filled casing will only have to travel 1 station before having a bullet put in, instead of 2.

This has been a learning curve, thanks for all the help... I'm hoping it will just be fine tuning from here.

[Unclenick]

See if this video is relevant to what you are experiencing.