Game over for the 40 S&W. Say it ain't so! - Page 7

DHart · September 30, 2016, 07:10 PM

Their loss indeed. A lot of people are just lemmings anyway. I'll bet that most of those who are trading in their 40s rarely, if EVER, even shot them.

It's said that most of those who buy guns rarely, if ever, even shoot them. Many people simply buy a gun because they want to HAVE a gun, not necessarily SHOOT guns.

There are some great deals on awesome 40&S&W pistols these days. It's a mighty fine caliber indeed. A wonderful combination of controllable power and high capacity.

It's nothing even close to "Game Over" for .40S&W. The caliber is widely used and will continue to be. Far more so than many other calibers like .357 SIG, .45 GAP, 10mm, .38 SPL, .357 MAG, .44 SPL, .44 MAG, .32 auto, etc. I'd say those calibers are in far less demand by handgun buyers and far less used by those who shoot guns today, but it isn't "Game Over" for them either.

"Game Over"? An expression of hyped drama, that's all.

9mm is probably the most popular defense gun caliber among ordinary citizens in the USA and is likely to continue to be. But that doesn't mean than .40 or .45 are going away. They're not and they won't be.

Oysterboy · September 30, 2016, 07:15 PM

No sir we are not. We are men!

P5 Guy · October 1, 2016, 12:54 PM

Some of us never did the lemming like dash to 40S&W.

seeker_two · October 1, 2016, 07:12 PM

It amazes me that the same people who questioned the FBI's motives in not recommending prosecution for HRC are willing to accept the FBI's judgement about the .40S&W.....

Strafer Gott · October 1, 2016, 07:15 PM

I like the increase in capacity over a .45. A Sig 229 in .40 , or the CZ Tactical sport in .40 just impress the hell out of me. YMMV. I don't carry boutique loads generally, but I do like those HST's. Plenty good.

DHart · October 1, 2016, 07:23 PM

Quote:

It amazes me that the same people who questioned the FBI's motives in not recommending prosecution for HRC are willing to accept the FBI's judgement about the .40S&W.....

Agree. And personally, what the FBI chooses, or does not choose, has no bearing whatsoever on my personal choices. I choose calibers and pistols based on my personal experience and analysis, not on any agency choices. After all, look at the cars the government buys for their employees. Yuck. I wouldn't want them for free.

Lohman446 · October 1, 2016, 07:35 PM

FBIs motives which time in regards to the 40? Pretty hard to argue both for and against the FBI in the same cogent argument

Woolecox · October 1, 2016, 08:25 PM

My Sig P229 SAS in 40 S&W is one of my favorite pistols. It has a great trigger and is very accurate. I just loaded up 500 rounds of Gold Dot 165’s last week. It likes this loads a lot and so do I. I also put a CT laser grip on it.

seeker_two · October 1, 2016, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lohman446

FBIs motives which time in regards to the 40? Pretty hard to argue both for and against the FBI in the same cogent argument

....and yet the FBI does it often....

DHart · October 1, 2016, 09:03 PM

I agree with many of the points made by the FBI in their decision. But do not come to the same conclusion for MY personal needs. And, they fail to address a significant element - busting through barriers and busting through bone obstacles.

And I see nothing in the FBI rationale to motivate me to sell my 10mm, .45auto, and .40S&W semi-auto pistols. (I'm not selling my 9mm pistols, either.)

The FBI bases it's penetration and expansion comparison on ballistic gelatin with one or two layers of denim. Unfortunately, that is an exceptionally imperfect model of the human body or an animal's body. Experienced hunters will know this better than anyone.

While the best 9mm of premium defense ammo may perform somewhat similarly (though not exactly as well) as .40 and .45 in ballistic gelatin, the greater ability of the heavier .40 and .45 caliber bullets to smash through harder obstacles and bone is a factor.

This doesn't mean that I wouldn't trust, nor carry a 9mm pistol, as I do, on occasion, when I need to carry a really small pistol.

I don't think 9mm is necessarily a bad choice for law enforcement or military, particularly since so many LE shooters are "struggling shooters" who get very little practice. Capacity is important and so is ease of handling recoil. 9mm has capacity and clearly is easier for "struggling shooters" to handle. And it can reasonably be rationalized and said that it is "good enough" for agency use, particularly where budget is a major driver in the decision!

So, I don't think 9mm is a terrible move for LE, but it's not necessarily a good move for me as a civilian well familiar with shooting various calibers and who practices regularly.

As the article mentions, Glock 40s were the pistols that struggling shooters were having a hard time with. Part of this is the platform itself. Forty caliber Glocks, especially the G23 and the G27 are especially snappy. And even MORE so with 155 gr. and 165 gr. ammo. Other platforms (Browning HiPower, M&P, Sig P320, HK VP40, etc.) handle .40 caliber much more comfortably and "softer" than the Glock forty caliber models do. And selecting 180 gr. ammo in .40S&W caliber also provides a softer felt-recoil. These are significant factors which were not addressed in the "report"!

For the regular civilian who can choose the best platform for themselves as well as the best caliber for themselves, following the FBI in lock-step doesn't make any sense. Though it might for newbie and "struggling shooters".

For an experienced shooter who is skilled and practices regularly, choosing .45auto or .40 caliber in a platforms like the M&Ps, HK, and Sig P320s can make plenty of sense. If not, I guess we all need to sell all the pistols and calibers that we own and just buy Glock 17s and Glock 19s. No point in having, nor relying upon anything by 9mm, eh? Not!

I like the G17 and the G19 and shoot them. Same with the G21SF and G30. I've used these guns for years. I also have a G23, a G23 Gen 4, and a G22 Gen 4. Compared to the M&Ps, Browning HiPowers, VP40, and Sig P320s (all in forty) I find the Glock forty caliber pistols to be harsher and "sharper" in recoil.

For carry and defensive use, I prefer 180 gr. HST in .40 caliber, with an M&P40, M&P40C, or P320 platform. I shoot these pistols well in this caliber; they are soft-shooting and easy to shoot, and they don't lose much capacity to 9mm. What they do offer is a greater ability to bust through heavy bone, such as is likely to be encountered by the outstretched arms of an assailant, coupled with heavier clothing, and breastbone - other obstacles like glass, and in defense of animals who have plenty of heavy bone to deal with, as well. .45auto and .40S&W can outperform 9mm in penetrating these and other obstacles.

A real human adversary, with arms outstretched in front of himself, presents a far different set of target characteristics than a block of jello with two pieces of denim on front of it.

Those who choose to carry 9 (rather than 40 and 45) are certainly free and welcome to make this personal choice. I don't mind at all. If you are happy with it, then I am content and happy for you!

But 9mm is not MY first choice in a defensive pistol caliber, regardless of what the bureaucrats decide to choose for the men and women who go into harm's way every day to serve and protect us. I know there are many LE personnel who would not be happy about having to move to 9mm.

I put more faith and trust in a heavier bullet (180 gr. or 230 gr. HST, Gold Dot, Ranger, etc.) carrying more momentum to bust through bone and obstacles. And I shoot them enough to be competent with them. I happen to be among those of us who are not "struggling shooters" under a government agency directive.

**Mike Irwin** · October 3, 2016, 05:42 AM

"That last part is patently untrue, Mike. The "problem", for the Army, was that the .38 Long Colt was too weak, and other counties were using newfangled self loading pistols and they wanted one, too ..... they did some testing in 1904 and concluded that they wanted a.45 cal bullet, as a minimum. JM Browning was working with them on an autoloading pistol in .41 cal .... and adapted it to a larger bullet ..... voila': The .45ACP.

Therefore, the .45ACP was the solution to several problems that The Army, Colt, and John Moses Browning asked ..... I would have expected you to know that, Mike. ..... but as DHart noted, some people say stuff because it sounds cool, true or not ......."

Well, the .45 was a "solution" to a problem that existed for a very brief period of time, and which was never solved by the .45 (in that case, the .45 Long Colt revolver), so by the time the .45 ACP actually hit the ground running, it was, literally, a solution in search of a question.

Now, had the military been expecting to face docile steers as their next combatant backed up by a few cadavers suspended by the wrists, then yes, the .45 was very much the solution to an extant and urgent problem...

Few factiods... The problem that the .45 was supposedly the solution to, the drugged up Moro tribesmen, turned out to also be extremely transient and still wasn't sorted out by the .45 (Colt revolver).

Yes, it was somewhat more effective than the .38 Long Colt, but it wasn't the Lazor Beem of Splooshy Deth!!! that so many have made it out to be over the years as justification for the mythical status of the .45 ACP.

What's also relatively unknown (or ignored) is the failure of the OTHER .45 in the Philippines, the .45-70 out of the Trapdoor Springfield... That's right, Moros hit with a 405-gr. bullet traveling at roughly twice the speed of the .45 revolver round still had the temerity to not immediately vaporize in a red mist.

About the only thing that really worked against a pissed off Moro was a load of buckshot out of one of the Winchester 12 gauge shotguns...

Which oddly enough were primarily given to Philippine Constabulary troops, with relatively few being given to Americans.

As for the advancement to a semi-automatic, that would have happened no matter whether anyone built/worshiped at the altar of the .45 or not. So that's not really part of the equation.

So yeah, you're right about one thing... some people say stuff just because it sounds cool, not because it's, like, really true or anything, but because it supports the godhead myth that is John Browning and His sacred sword of righteousness, the .45 ACP.

Sigh...

Sarge · October 3, 2016, 05:56 AM

Lightnin' gonna strike you now, Irwin

**Mike Irwin** · October 3, 2016, 06:08 AM

"Lightnin' gonna strike you now, Irwin"

Good. My sacred cow steak is a little on the rare side, even for me.

rightside · October 6, 2016, 05:32 AM

Oh Mike!!
I'll be sending prayer requests...

**Mike Irwin** · October 6, 2016, 05:55 AM

MOO!

Dashunde · October 7, 2016, 04:15 PM

What'd everybody turn Hindu? No one trying to take a bite out of the Sacred Cow for his blasphemous thinkin' on JMB and his 1911?
Bunch'a chickens...

Deaf Smith · October 7, 2016, 04:53 PM

Wal-Mart around here just had a sale! 250 rounds of Remington UMC 180 gr FMJ .40 S&W for $48 bucks. Yes 48 of 'em. That computes to bit over $9 per 50.

I got one 250 round pack just to add to the .45s I keep in an ammo can. I have 9mm, .357 Sigs, .40s, and .45s. Plus the .38s and .44s I use a lot in the field.

.40 dead? Nope! Not even close.

Deaf

Oysterboy · October 7, 2016, 05:37 PM

I got five 250 packs for $45 each at Walmart. I've shot two boxes so far.

agtman · October 7, 2016, 08:36 PM

Yep, ... perused two of the better LGSs today.

Gawd, the .40 dumpage is massive, continuing to bleed out and somewhat painful to watch, ... but happening it is.

Some say the 9 was always fine, ... and we're only remembering what we once forgot.

DHart · October 7, 2016, 09:14 PM

Mmmm. Me loving .40 caliber.

Awesome choice. Soft-shooting, accurate, high capacity, potent.

10 yards off hand

The current fad creates bargains for others. Plenty of us are adding more forties to the stables.

Fortys that are hastily traded for nines will all be snapped up over time.

No worries, folks, forty ain't going away. Nine is fine. Forty is fine +P.

DHart · October 7, 2016, 09:27 PM

Quote:

FBIs motives which time in regards to the 40? Pretty hard to argue both for and against the FBI in the same cogent argument

Oh, sure it is!

Lately? Yeah, but NO. They had it right when they went to forty, they just picked the wrong platform (Glocks in .40S&W) and the wrong bullet weight (155/165 vs. 180). And now, they're just reacting hastily and impulsively.

I'll give them this much: Glock 17 and 19 are better choices than Glock 22 and 23. Beyond that, they're just another government agency making agency-like choices which don't necessarily translate to the best choices for individuals.

Given all the stupid crap that Comey and the FBI agency has been up to lately, their credibility is totally shot. Following lock-step with the rest of our f#@ked up government.

No sense for individuals, these days, to follow them like puppy dogs without a clue.

Sarge · October 7, 2016, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHart

Fortys that are hastily traded for nines will all be snapped up over time.

Amen. Copshop M&P40c came today. Real decent trigger for an MP. Five at 25 yards, standing unsupported.

DHart · October 7, 2016, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Fortys that are hastily traded for nines will all be snapped up over time.

Quote:

Amen. Copshop M&P40c came today. Real decent trigger for an MP. Five at 25 yards, standing unsupported.

Nice score! The M&P40C is one of my most favorite pistols. I bought one in 2007 and like it so much that I snagged another a couple of weeks ago when CDNN had them on sale. Great pistols in a great caliber. Very soft shooting, accurate, reliable, and effortless to carry. Packs a nice punch, too!

September 30, 2016, 07:10 PM	#151
DHart Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 591	Their loss indeed. A lot of people are just lemmings anyway. I'll bet that most of those who are trading in their 40s rarely, if EVER, even shot them. It's said that most of those who buy guns rarely, if ever, even shoot them. Many people simply buy a gun because they want to HAVE a gun, not necessarily SHOOT guns. There are some great deals on awesome 40&S&W pistols these days. It's a mighty fine caliber indeed. A wonderful combination of controllable power and high capacity. It's nothing even close to "Game Over" for .40S&W. The caliber is widely used and will continue to be. Far more so than many other calibers like .357 SIG, .45 GAP, 10mm, .38 SPL, .357 MAG, .44 SPL, .44 MAG, .32 auto, etc. I'd say those calibers are in far less demand by handgun buyers and far less used by those who shoot guns today, but it isn't "Game Over" for them either. "Game Over"? An expression of hyped drama, that's all. 9mm is probably the most popular defense gun caliber among ordinary citizens in the USA and is likely to continue to be. But that doesn't mean than .40 or .45 are going away. They're not and they won't be. Last edited by DHart; October 1, 2016 at 01:16 PM.

October 3, 2016, 05:42 AM	#161
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	"That last part is patently untrue, Mike. The "problem", for the Army, was that the .38 Long Colt was too weak, and other counties were using newfangled self loading pistols and they wanted one, too ..... they did some testing in 1904 and concluded that they wanted a.45 cal bullet, as a minimum. JM Browning was working with them on an autoloading pistol in .41 cal .... and adapted it to a larger bullet ..... voila': The .45ACP. Therefore, the .45ACP was the solution to several problems that The Army, Colt, and John Moses Browning asked ..... I would have expected you to know that, Mike. ..... but as DHart noted, some people say stuff because it sounds cool, true or not ......." Well, the .45 was a "solution" to a problem that existed for a very brief period of time, and which was never solved by the .45 (in that case, the .45 Long Colt revolver), so by the time the .45 ACP actually hit the ground running, it was, literally, a solution in search of a question. Now, had the military been expecting to face docile steers as their next combatant backed up by a few cadavers suspended by the wrists, then yes, the .45 was very much the solution to an extant and urgent problem... Few factiods... The problem that the .45 was supposedly the solution to, the drugged up Moro tribesmen, turned out to also be extremely transient and still wasn't sorted out by the .45 (Colt revolver). Yes, it was somewhat more effective than the .38 Long Colt, but it wasn't the Lazor Beem of Splooshy Deth!!! that so many have made it out to be over the years as justification for the mythical status of the .45 ACP. What's also relatively unknown (or ignored) is the failure of the OTHER .45 in the Philippines, the .45-70 out of the Trapdoor Springfield... That's right, Moros hit with a 405-gr. bullet traveling at roughly twice the speed of the .45 revolver round still had the temerity to not immediately vaporize in a red mist. About the only thing that really worked against a pissed off Moro was a load of buckshot out of one of the Winchester 12 gauge shotguns... Which oddly enough were primarily given to Philippine Constabulary troops, with relatively few being given to Americans. As for the advancement to a semi-automatic, that would have happened no matter whether anyone built/worshiped at the altar of the .45 or not. So that's not really part of the equation. So yeah, you're right about one thing... some people say stuff just because it sounds cool, not because it's, like, really true or anything, but because it supports the godhead myth that is John Browning and His sacred sword of righteousness, the .45 ACP. Sigh... __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

October 3, 2016, 05:56 AM	#162
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	Lightnin' gonna strike you now, Irwin __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

October 3, 2016, 06:08 AM	#163
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	"Lightnin' gonna strike you now, Irwin" Good. My sacred cow steak is a little on the rare side, even for me. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

October 6, 2016, 05:55 AM	#165
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	MOO! __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

September 30, 2016, 07:15 PM	#152
Oysterboy Senior Member Join Date: March 3, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 970	No sir we are not. We are men!

October 1, 2016, 12:54 PM	#153
P5 Guy Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2005 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 1,804	Some of us never did the lemming like dash to 40S&W.

October 1, 2016, 07:12 PM	#154
seeker_two Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2002 Location: Deep in the Heart of the Lone Star State (TX) Posts: 2,169	It amazes me that the same people who questioned the FBI's motives in not recommending prosecution for HRC are willing to accept the FBI's judgement about the .40S&W.....

October 1, 2016, 07:15 PM	#155
Strafer Gott Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2011 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,315	I like the increase in capacity over a .45. A Sig 229 in .40 , or the CZ Tactical sport in .40 just impress the hell out of me. YMMV. I don't carry boutique loads generally, but I do like those HST's. Plenty good.

October 1, 2016, 07:35 PM	#157
Lohman446 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2016 Posts: 2,192	FBIs motives which time in regards to the 40? Pretty hard to argue both for and against the FBI in the same cogent argument

October 1, 2016, 08:25 PM	#158
Woolecox Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 152	My Sig P229 SAS in 40 S&W is one of my favorite pistols. It has a great trigger and is very accurate. I just loaded up 500 rounds of Gold Dot 165’s last week. It likes this loads a lot and so do I. I also put a CT laser grip on it.

October 1, 2016, 09:03 PM	#160
DHart Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 591	I agree with many of the points made by the FBI in their decision. But do not come to the same conclusion for MY personal needs. And, they fail to address a significant element - busting through barriers and busting through bone obstacles. And I see nothing in the FBI rationale to motivate me to sell my 10mm, .45auto, and .40S&W semi-auto pistols. (I'm not selling my 9mm pistols, either.) The FBI bases it's penetration and expansion comparison on ballistic gelatin with one or two layers of denim. Unfortunately, that is an exceptionally imperfect model of the human body or an animal's body. Experienced hunters will know this better than anyone. While the best 9mm of premium defense ammo may perform somewhat similarly (though not exactly as well) as .40 and .45 in ballistic gelatin, the greater ability of the heavier .40 and .45 caliber bullets to smash through harder obstacles and bone is a factor. This doesn't mean that I wouldn't trust, nor carry a 9mm pistol, as I do, on occasion, when I need to carry a really small pistol. I don't think 9mm is necessarily a bad choice for law enforcement or military, particularly since so many LE shooters are "struggling shooters" who get very little practice. Capacity is important and so is ease of handling recoil. 9mm has capacity and clearly is easier for "struggling shooters" to handle. And it can reasonably be rationalized and said that it is "good enough" for agency use, particularly where budget is a major driver in the decision! So, I don't think 9mm is a terrible move for LE, but it's not necessarily a good move for me as a civilian well familiar with shooting various calibers and who practices regularly. As the article mentions, Glock 40s were the pistols that struggling shooters were having a hard time with. Part of this is the platform itself. Forty caliber Glocks, especially the G23 and the G27 are especially snappy. And even MORE so with 155 gr. and 165 gr. ammo. Other platforms (Browning HiPower, M&P, Sig P320, HK VP40, etc.) handle .40 caliber much more comfortably and "softer" than the Glock forty caliber models do. And selecting 180 gr. ammo in .40S&W caliber also provides a softer felt-recoil. These are significant factors which were not addressed in the "report"! For the regular civilian who can choose the best platform for themselves as well as the best caliber for themselves, following the FBI in lock-step doesn't make any sense. Though it might for newbie and "struggling shooters". For an experienced shooter who is skilled and practices regularly, choosing .45auto or .40 caliber in a platforms like the M&Ps, HK, and Sig P320s can make plenty of sense. If not, I guess we all need to sell all the pistols and calibers that we own and just buy Glock 17s and Glock 19s. No point in having, nor relying upon anything by 9mm, eh? Not! I like the G17 and the G19 and shoot them. Same with the G21SF and G30. I've used these guns for years. I also have a G23, a G23 Gen 4, and a G22 Gen 4. Compared to the M&Ps, Browning HiPowers, VP40, and Sig P320s (all in forty) I find the Glock forty caliber pistols to be harsher and "sharper" in recoil. For carry and defensive use, I prefer 180 gr. HST in .40 caliber, with an M&P40, M&P40C, or P320 platform. I shoot these pistols well in this caliber; they are soft-shooting and easy to shoot, and they don't lose much capacity to 9mm. What they do offer is a greater ability to bust through heavy bone, such as is likely to be encountered by the outstretched arms of an assailant, coupled with heavier clothing, and breastbone - other obstacles like glass, and in defense of animals who have plenty of heavy bone to deal with, as well. .45auto and .40S&W can outperform 9mm in penetrating these and other obstacles. A real human adversary, with arms outstretched in front of himself, presents a far different set of target characteristics than a block of jello with two pieces of denim on front of it. Those who choose to carry 9 (rather than 40 and 45) are certainly free and welcome to make this personal choice. I don't mind at all. If you are happy with it, then I am content and happy for you! But 9mm is not MY first choice in a defensive pistol caliber, regardless of what the bureaucrats decide to choose for the men and women who go into harm's way every day to serve and protect us. I know there are many LE personnel who would not be happy about having to move to 9mm. I put more faith and trust in a heavier bullet (180 gr. or 230 gr. HST, Gold Dot, Ranger, etc.) carrying more momentum to bust through bone and obstacles. And I shoot them enough to be competent with them. I happen to be among those of us who are not "struggling shooters" under a government agency directive.

October 6, 2016, 05:32 AM	#164
rightside Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2012 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 419	Oh Mike!! I'll be sending prayer requests...

October 7, 2016, 04:15 PM	#166
Dashunde Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2004 Posts: 2,018	What'd everybody turn Hindu? No one trying to take a bite out of the Sacred Cow for his blasphemous thinkin' on JMB and his 1911? Bunch'a chickens...

October 7, 2016, 04:53 PM	#167
Deaf Smith Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2000 Location: Texican! Posts: 4,453	Wal-Mart around here just had a sale! 250 rounds of Remington UMC 180 gr FMJ .40 S&W for $48 bucks. Yes 48 of 'em. That computes to bit over $9 per 50. I got one 250 round pack just to add to the .45s I keep in an ammo can. I have 9mm, .357 Sigs, .40s, and .45s. Plus the .38s and .44s I use a lot in the field. .40 dead? Nope! Not even close. Deaf __________________ “To you who call yourselves ‘men of peace,’ I say, you are not safe without men of action by your side” Thucydides

October 7, 2016, 05:37 PM	#168
Oysterboy Senior Member Join Date: March 3, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 970	I got five 250 packs for $45 each at Walmart. I've shot two boxes so far.

October 7, 2016, 08:36 PM	#169
agtman Junior member Join Date: July 26, 2001 Location: midwest Posts: 2,374	Yep, ... perused two of the better LGSs today. Gawd, the .40 dumpage is massive, continuing to bleed out and somewhat painful to watch, ... but happening it is. Some say the 9 was always fine, ... and we're only remembering what we once forgot.

October 7, 2016, 09:14 PM	#170
DHart Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 591	Mmmm. Me loving .40 caliber. Awesome choice. Soft-shooting, accurate, high capacity, potent. 10 yards off hand The current fad creates bargains for others. Plenty of us are adding more forties to the stables. Fortys that are hastily traded for nines will all be snapped up over time. No worries, folks, forty ain't going away. Nine is fine. Forty is fine +P. Last edited by DHart; October 7, 2016 at 09:58 PM.