Hopkins & Allen XL No 1

[johnm1]

I would have thought there was more information on H&A but my searches are turning up very little on the XL series. Picture is of an H&A XL No 1 I bought recently. Inexpensive and black powder 22 short. What I can’t find is a possible date of manufacture. One site suggested the XL series was between the 1870s and 1880s. But H&A wasn’t consistent with the XL series name. This would have been right up Bill Goforth’s alley. But our hobby has lost so much knowledge recently.

I did all of the common google searches with the obvious results. Does anyone have any inside information on H&A or the XL series? The company name on the roll mark is ‘Hopkins & Allen Mfg. Co’. This dates it prior to the name change in 1898. I have found the basic history of the company fro the 1960’s pdf posted on the American Society of Arms Collectors.

Full roll mark reads Hopkins & Allen Mfg. Co., Pat Mar 23 1871. Serial is M 928

I know it isn’t valuable and loading 22 short black powder is going to make it a pain to shoot. But it was inexpensive ($69) and is functional and pretty good looking. I just want to know as much as I can about it.

[105kw]

If you can find BB caps anywhere, they should be safe.
No powder, just primer compound.

Several years ago I aquired 2 Smith & Wesson tip up .22s, after a local Smith checked them out I fired both using BB caps.
It was a hoot and a half of fun.

[darkgael]

Neat little pistol. Bb caps area great idea.
Midwayusa.com has them. Unfortunately, they are very expensive: 150 rounds for $79.99 plus shipping. RWS brand. These are the only ones I have ever seen. I used them years ago.

[johnm1]

Thanks. BB caps are my first choice. Expensive though. I’m working my way through the possibility of reloading some shorts with black powder. There actually is a die to seat/crimp. Comes with a set that can include re-priming compound. I don’t care to try to salvage fired brass and re-prime. But the die looks to be what is needed to seat/crimp projectiles puled from loaded cb caps and replace the smokeless with nothing or a small amount of black. BB caps are expensive. Pulling the projectiles is tough. Too small for my kinetic puller and pliers butcher the projectile.

[johnm1]

Overall I’m surprised at what this little revolver is. It has four clicks. Loading position that allows the cylinder to freewheel. Half cock, full cock, and a quieter click when the bolt pops up. It doesn’t feel cheaply made.

[Doc Hoy]

...it looks like a nice specimen. Nice condition.

[johnm1]

I may have been overthinking this as far as ammunition goes. The preference is for the BB Caps but they are expensive. The Colibri are length sized for 22 long/LR and too long for the cylinder of this little revolver. But, 22 short CB Caps are readily available, fit in the chamber and I can easily pull the 29 grain bullet. What I haven't figure out is how to pull the bullet without damaging it. Given enough time I guess I could figure out how to pull and salvage the bullet. But that would still get me either a primer only powered CB (conical ball) or a BP charged CB when a BB Cap would suffice just fine and in reality is preferable. I want it to go bang not BOOM. Plus, I have no idea if a primer only charge would have enough Oomph to drive a 29 grain conical ball all the way down the barrel.

What do you think the odds of actually seating a .22 caliber round ball on the emptied/primed only case of a CB short? 22 RB are readily available. Maybe use the flats of the reloading press, cushioned on the primer side, to push the ball into the case.

https://www.airgundepot.com/gamo-rou...2-pellets.html

Not sure if the diameter would be a tight fit or what the accuracy would be. Guess I'll have to try and find out. I'm just one of those people that it has to go bang or it has to go away. Oldest I have was manufactured in 1852 and it goes bang. Not often and never a heavy load. But it goes bang and send a .69 caliber ball on target. Thoughts? Stupid idea?

[johnm1]

I should probably get my terminology right. A 22 BB Cap is a very short case with a round ball powered by the primer only. A 22 CB Cap is the same case (shorter) with a Conical Ball powered by the primer only. The 22 CB Shorts I have are a longer 22 short case powered by a small amount of smokeless powder. What I'm proposing to do is pull the bullet from a 22 CB Short, dump the powder, seat a 22 caliber ball and create a franken cartridge that would be a 22 Short BB Cap Powered only by the primer.

[johnm1]

Not sure the 22 round ball is going to work. I believe the round ball is .220 and the inside of the case and barrel diameter are both .223. For $6 I’ll give it a try though

[Jim Watson]

Have you pulled a bullet to see if there is powder present in a CB Short?
WWW references are not specific, but one post on rimfirecentral said it was still a primer only round.

[johnm1]

I did pull a bullet from one of the 22 CB Short cases and there is a small amount of powder in it. For $6 I'm going to see if the round ball will work. Pretty much if it is a tight fit in the barrel I think I can figure a way to hold the ball in the case. I may have to rely on the crimp on the unfired 'projectilless' case to keep the ball from falling to the bottom of the case and fashion some type of crimp to hold the ball from falling out of the top of the case. I should be able to find the round ball tonight and give it a try.